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2012 skis and gear.....a (pre) preview.

post #1 of 187
Thread Starter 

Just attended my first show of the year and saw a smattering of 2012 hardgoods. This is not a review but rather, just a quick and very incomplete overview of a few things.

 

Brands previewed either in full or in sprinkles.

 

K2

Line

Volkl

Salomon

Nordica

Rossi

 

K2: For a brand that did a major flip last year, there are some pretty good refinements.

System skis for men and women have reworked topdeck geographies, slimmed down mod configurations, and some superbly executed color ways. There is a totally new Pon2oon with a very much toned down amount of rocker and a much longer conventional section. The "Side" skis are revamped graphically and have a new 90mm model. Some typical idiotic graphics in a few models.

 

Line: Some small changes but with (IMO) some nice refinements. P-90 and 100 are remodeled with some minimalist tip rocker, new flatter tails with longer rear running surfaces and a new metal matrix. The former P-100 is now a 98 and should be a worthy Enforcer competitor. There is a new 105 and the returning 115 both with very good graphics, and similar rise to the current 115. Pandora remains the same. Nice new graphic stories with no monsters, blood, or corpses.

 

Volkl: Some fairly substantial redesigns including an all new Gotama/Kiku with drastically minimized rocker, a real tip, and long flat underfoot. Mantra and Aura get minimal tip rocker and straighter sidecuts but are still very stiff in the back half. AC series are gone and replaced with RTM (Ride The Mountain) ski that incorporate minimalist tip rise and barely visible tail rise along with (important!!) a softer flex on the 84mm version. The 80mm is stiffer and may be a lost soldier. Another new series called "Code" is ~~ 75mm on trail skis using some minimal rocker and "Speedwall" like the race skis. (These were not shown except in pics) There is a narrower version of Kuro.

 

Salomon: Enduro series is expanded to several widths, constructions and price points. Some good stuff here. Shogun, Sentinel, Geisha, Lady etc.....get new (better graphics) The BBR is............uhhhhhhh..........different, unique and will likely be a complete hit or a complete miss but I can't say which. I'm trying to buy a couple of demos for spring consumer testing in Tahoe. There is a new Rocker2 that should be a spectacular powder ski in the 113mm range. Nothing really notable in boots here.

 

Nordica: This line shows an expansion of the Firearrow group including a new 74mm EDT on trail model that should be stellar. The Hotrod group is still around but is slimmed/toned down. The Conquer and Infinite are really superb graphically and I'm sure will remain among the very best womens skis available anywhere at any price. There is a whole new collection of new non metal 84-113mm models all with varying degrees of tip rise that are spinoffs of the "I-Core HR Burner models. I think the 90 and 98mm versions should be absolute standouts for western skiers. The Enforcer and Girish have new graphics. The Big news in boot collection is that the conventional 100mm Speedmachine models are totally replaced by 3 piece shells in various flexes and models. There are cuff hinge versions of these as well. No opinions yet on these as the samples are too small for me to even try on let alone ski in. The HR series freeride boots are revamped into a collection built around this year's "Enforcer" shell.

 

Rossi: I only saw a few random samples and can only say that the Avenger 82 (carbon) is a very classy looking ski for the conservative skier and the new S7 looks to have a metal layer on the bottom in 188 cm. I speculated on this about 6-8 months ago but was thinking that maybe for 2012-13. Apparently it's now. I have some 2012 S7's on the way so I'll confirm when I get them.

 

In general....Rocker seems to be spreading somewhat but it also seems to be getting drastically toned down. All of the new offerings in 110+ have some rocker but in moderate amounts and most that I've seen so far are pretty soft in flex and are certainly consumer powder skis rather than "Superhero" skis.

 

If I didn't mention it.....I haven't seen it yet.

 

SJ

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post #2 of 187

Interesting!  Saw the new Elans, Dynastars, Blizzis, Fischers today.  Looks like some good skis in there, won't know until the demo though.  It did seem like what were the bigger, softer, more rockered skis got less rocker than has been the trend and a bit more stiffness, and the frontside skis either all got early rise or slightly "resort" rocker, save for the frontside Elans.  Still thinking that Legend 105 is going to be a pretty sweet ski....        

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post #3 of 187

Marker: Griffons now going to 13, (a la the Baron from last year), there will be a Squire Shizo and a long waited (8-)18 DIN Jester Team. Color changes for the above series also. 

 

Kastle:  Expansion to the LX line to add a LX92 and a new addition to the FX line, the FX104. Both of these skis will be traditional cambered skis. There is a possible revamping to the big MX's (98+)

 

Green seems to the be the color for 2012, in most cases, not a lime or floro but a kelly/grass green. 

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post #4 of 187

thanks, interesting, refinement of the new camber concepts and flex. awesome.

 

the 'hero' powder ski has been endangered for some time I think, partly the style of skiing in films and on mountains everywhere has changed.

 

Pros have a great touch with their skis and may not need them uber stiff and heavy, preferring now to take their lines into spines and crazy terrain, than ripping eye rattling speed on every line.

post #5 of 187

The new 105 prophet with a little tip rise, and a flatter tail sounds amazing. To bad I already own that ski in the ON3P Vicik. Actually prior to the Vicik I was dreaming of a P100 with and early rise tip. Nice to see it materialize. Should be a solid western daily driver.

post #6 of 187
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecimmortal View Post

The new 105 prophet with a little tip rise, and a flatter tail sounds amazing. To bad I already own that ski in the ON3P Vicik. Actually prior to the Vicik I was dreaming of a P100 with and early rise tip. Nice to see it materialize. Should be a solid western daily driver.



Not quite right. The 98 (former 100) has the very low rise tip and the longer, flatter tail. The 105 has more rise (similar to the current 115) and is a twin. I think the 98 will be a great DD for the west. The 105 will be OK too but certainly more soft snow orientation.

 

BTW......reflecting on the Volkl RTM skis causes me to think that they have been paying attention to Blizzard.

 

SJ


Edited by SierraJim - 1/12/11 at 10:57pm

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post #7 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraJim View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by ecimmortal View Post

The new 105 prophet with a little tip rise, and a flatter tail sounds amazing. To bad I already own that ski in the ON3P Vicik. Actually prior to the Vicik I was dreaming of a P100 with and early rise tip. Nice to see it materialize. Should be a solid western daily driver.



Not quite right. The 98 (former 100) has the very low rise tip and the longer, flatter tail. The 105 has more rise (similar to the current 115) and is a twin. I think the 98 will be a great DD for the west. The 105 will be OK too but certainly more soft snow orientation.

 

BTW......reflecting on the Volkl AMR skis causes me to think that they have been paying attention to Blizzard.

 

SJ

Thanks for clarifying SJ. They both sound like really good ski's, and i'm looking forward to getting on some demo's.

 

BTW here's a pic of the whole lineup

2lag0oh.jpg&size=400x1000

 

SJ do you have any info on the Pollard designed skis.
 

post #8 of 187

What I hear in this is that the rocker designs are still being sorted out, and it may not be a bad thing to wait a year or two and see what design consensus emerges (if you're someone like me who can't buy skis frequently). Industry experts opinion?

post #9 of 187

Idk about you guys, but I'm pretty surprised abou Volkl.  For an Austrian "hard-snow" oriented brand for the most part, I'm really surprised to see them throwing rocker in pretty much all of their skis.  Think it's not a bad idea for the Mantra and maybe even Kendo, but I'd like to know if the Core series will be replacing the Tigersharks.  If they are, I'd be really disappointed.  Also, I think the AMR series makes a bit of sense, as I think they missed the target a bit with the AC series, especially the AC50, as they were supposed to be for the whole mountain, but really just excelled on hard snow and could do ok in powder (due to their stiffness and camber).  

post #10 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post

Marker: Griffons now going to 13, (a la the Baron from last year), there will be a Squire Shizo and a long waited (8-)18 DIN Jester Team. Color changes for the above series also. 

 

Kastle:  Expansion to the LX line to add a LX92 and a new addition to the FX line, the FX104. Both of these skis will be traditional cambered skis. There is a possible revamping to the big MX's (98+)

 

Green seems to the be the color for 2012, in most cases, not a lime or floro but a kelly/grass green. 

I don't know about the 108, but was told the 98 is unchanged and will possibly have an early intro this spring.
 

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post #11 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastskier44 View Post

Idk about you guys, but I'm pretty surprised abou Volkl.  For an Austrian "hard-snow" oriented brand for the most part, I'm really surprised to see them throwing rocker in pretty much all of their skis.  Think it's not a bad idea for the Mantra and maybe even Kendo, but I'd like to know if the Core series will be replacing the Tigersharks.  If they are, I'd be really disappointed.  Also, I think the AMR series makes a bit of sense, as I think they missed the target a bit with the AC series, especially the AC50, as they were supposed to be for the whole mountain, but really just excelled on hard snow and could do ok in powder (due to their stiffness and camber).  



 

 

Hard to say how anything performs without skiing it first.  Dynastar added a bit of rocker to the Sultan's, but it is minimal.  Same with Fischer's Motive series, and Blizzards magnum stuff (both early rise).  Since these skis are otherwise unchanged, it will be pretty easy to break down the differences between having it and not.  I did hear from one rep that the new rockered versions of the older skis ski a bit shorter, but otherwise, the same.  Said he considered going up in length, but other than that, no changes.  As I said, without skiing it, impossible to know.

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post #12 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgcatching View Post



 

I don't know about the 108, but was told the 98 is unchanged and will possibly have an early intro this spring.
 

 

Hopefully they actually have a supply line to the US next year.

I know Kastle lost out on 2 sales from me this year because of poor supply.
 

post #13 of 187

I know this was just a "quick" preview but I had a couple questions about what you saw from Volkl.

 

Has the Grizzley been eliminated? If not did it seem to be changed?

 

Whats up with the women's Volkls? I really hope they didn't go rockering them all like K2 did this year.

post #14 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

thanks, interesting, refinement of the new camber concepts and flex. awesome.

 

the 'hero' powder ski has been endangered for some time I think, partly the style of skiing in films and on mountains everywhere has changed.

 

Pros have a great touch with their skis and may not need them uber stiff and heavy, preferring now to take their lines into spines and crazy terrain, than ripping eye rattling speed on every line.


I was thinking about this a bit more; it seems as if pro-level sponsored skiers would get handmade, custom race-room product, the same as the sponsored racers do, and therefore be able to get custom flex and camber, as needed.   If that is the case, then what would a movie shoot have to do with skis that are delivered to the general public?  I am a pretty solid skier, and I am not likely to end up ripping down a high-expsoure, high-risk spine in Alaska at any point in this lifetime.  I doubt many others are either.  So, why make skis that only a couple hundred people in the world are likely to use?  Seems like a much better bet to tailor skis to, at the top end, the hard-charging big mountain resort skier, which is where these are going to end up (at best, but more than likely most will end up on the feet of weekend warriors).  A true pro-level ski may not be approachable to many people (like the old Dynastar XXL).  

 

Blizzard's new all-mountain line was still pretty stout, the new 118 ski was very stiff, quite a bit of low-rise rocker tip and tail. The 108 and 98 looked like very good potential "most days" skis around here; bit of tip and tail rocker, low profile, fair amount of camber.  Pair one of those new 108's with the Magnum 8.1 and it would be a pretty sick, big-mountain, do-everything quiver with most of the bases covered (again, have yet to ski it though).   

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post #15 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by persee View Post

I know this was just a "quick" preview but I had a couple questions about what you saw from Volkl.

 

Has the Grizzley been eliminated? If not did it seem to be changed?

 

Whats up with the women's Volkls? I really hope they didn't go rockering them all like K2 did this year.





Quote:
Originally Posted by eastskier44 View Post

Idk about you guys, but I'm pretty surprised abou Volkl.  For an Austrian "hard-snow" oriented brand for the most part, I'm really surprised to see them throwing rocker in pretty much all of their skis.  Think it's not a bad idea for the Mantra and maybe even Kendo, but I'd like to know if the Core series will be replacing the Tigersharks.  If they are, I'd be really disappointed.  Also, I think the AMR series makes a bit of sense, as I think they missed the target a bit with the AC series, especially the AC50, as they were supposed to be for the whole mountain, but really just excelled on hard snow and could do ok in powder (due to their stiffness and camber).  



East, if by "Core" you mean "the Code", no, it won't replace the Tigersharks, at least not according to they 2011-2012 catalogue:

http://mediadatabase.tck-sports.nl/voelkl/Brochures/Winter_2011-2012/11-12_Voelkl_WB_HR.pdf

 

From the same soruce, the Grizzly is still there

As for the Women's series, the Attiva...I see only one model with tip rocker, all others are referred as "Full Camber"...

 

post #16 of 187
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by squawbomber View Post

What I hear in this is that the rocker designs are still being sorted out, and it may not be a bad thing to wait a year or two and see what design consensus emerges (if you're someone like me who can't buy skis frequently). Industry experts opinion?



The consensus (this week) is that less rocker is better in many cases. The amounts of early taper are also being reduced and there is very little in full reverse with most skis having cambered sections. OTH....if you find something you like, who cares what the industry thinks? If it works for you then.....it works.

 

SJ

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post #17 of 187
Thread Starter 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by eastskier44 View Post

Idk about you guys, but I'm pretty surprised abou Volkl.  For an Austrian "hard-snow" oriented brand for the most part, I'm really surprised to see them throwing rocker in pretty much all of their skis.  Think it's not a bad idea for the Mantra and maybe even Kendo, but I'd like to know if the Core series will be replacing the Tigersharks.  If they are, I'd be really disappointed.  Also, I think the AMR series makes a bit of sense, as I think they missed the target a bit with the AC series, especially the AC50, as they were supposed to be for the whole mountain, but really just excelled on hard snow and could do ok in powder (due to their stiffness and camber).  



Somebody named nobody........biggrin.gif.........did pretty well with this but here is the spin that Volkl gave these questions. First, "rocker" is the new talking point. Basically you have to have it in most categories in order to be considered relevant. It is not a bad thing to have some non rockered skis available as a counterpoint. Re: the Grizz and the TS series, those models have not been huge hits in the market with the Grizz being an especially slow seller. I did mean "Code" when I typed "Core" and I haven't seen one yet so I can't say much except that their story is that the amount of rocker is very minimal and hence not a big disadvantage. Volkl absolutely understands that the AC-50 is no great shakes for mixed snow use and I suspect that the new RTM will be more useful  as much b/c of better flex than the rocker which is pretty small. The Gotama in current form was a bit of a miss as well but by knocking down much of the rocker and putting more platform under the foot, I think it will be better also.

 

SJ


Edited by SierraJim - 1/12/11 at 11:01pm

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post #18 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraJim View PostThere is a totally new Pon2oon with a very much toned down amount of rocker and a much longer conventional section.


Did they change the overall shape of the ski or did the just make the tapered shape less drastic. Also, why do you think they reduced the rocker? It is a powder specific ski after all.

post #19 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraJim View Post

Line: Some small changes but with (IMO) some nice refinements. P-90 and 100 are remodeled with some minimalist tip rocker, new flatter tails with longer rear running surfaces and a new metal matrix. The former P-100 is now a 98 and should be a worthy Enforcer competitor. There is a new 105 and the returning 115 both with very good graphics, and similar rise to the current 115.

 

^ on the 98 and 105 - are they now sidewall construction like the 115 or still cap?

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgcatching View Post


 Dynastar added a bit of rocker to the Sultan's, but it is minimal.  

 

^ How did you like the new graphic? Arent they now "Legends" ie dropping the Sultan name?

post #20 of 187

Scott, Jim-   Can you describe the "skinny" ProRider (ProRider 105)?  Is it a replacement for the old LPR?  

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post #21 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by givethepigeye View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraJim View Post

Line: Some small changes but with (IMO) some nice refinements. P-90 and 100 are remodeled with some minimalist tip rocker, new flatter tails with longer rear running surfaces and a new metal matrix. The former P-100 is now a 98 and should be a worthy Enforcer competitor. There is a new 105 and the returning 115 both with very good graphics, and similar rise to the current 115.

 

^ on the 98 and 105 - are they now sidewall construction like the 115 or still cap?

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgcatching View Post


 Dynastar added a bit of rocker to the Sultan's, but it is minimal.  

 

^ How did you like the new graphic? Arent they now "Legends" ie dropping the Sultan name?



 



Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzn View Post

Scott, Jim-   Can you describe the "skinny" ProRider (ProRider 105)?  Is it a replacement for the old LPR?  


Not as well as I would like: I only saw the catalogue.  Skis weren't in yet.  Rep said it would be a smaller version of the 115, more or less, and yes, replaces the old LPR. A few changes, obviously.

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post #22 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by persee View Post

I know this was just a "quick" preview but I had a couple questions about what you saw from Volkl.

 

Has the Grizzley been eliminated? If not did it seem to be changed?

 

Whats up with the women's Volkls? I really hope they didn't go rockering them all like K2 did this year.


The ladies Volkls are the same sans graphics. They have put all their eggs in the bio-logic basket ad I don't thin they have seen their investment back yet. The K2 Ladies line has lost the "Luv" and are now "Super...."

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post #23 of 187

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzn View Post

Scott, Jim-   Can you describe the "skinny" ProRider (ProRider 105)?  Is it a replacement for the old LPR?  


Not as well as I would like: I only saw the catalogue.  Skis weren't in yet.  Rep said it would be a smaller version of the 115, more or less, and yes, replaces the old LPR. A few changes, obviously.


Weird...  PR115 is a powder ski with a big fat rocker...  if they put that big fat rocker on the 105 ski, there is no way it will ski like the old LPR....

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post #24 of 187

Dawg, I agree with your whole "don't judge a book" by its cover thing.  You are very right, it's impossible to know for sure.  But what I can do is theorize with my east-biased base of ski knowledge. That's all I was doing, not guaranteeing anything lol.

 

And to SJ, I completely agree with your post.  I do realize that rocker is the latest and greatest and thus, everybody's gotta have it (even though I hate it).  I'm glad that they didn't get rid of the TS models, as I really think those are some plain old well made skis.  It doesn't shock me that they're not selling though, as everyone's gotta be on rocker and mid-fats now.  As for the Griz, I couldn't care less, as I think they were too similar to the AC50 anyway and didn't really fit a lot of the people who were skiing them (who wants a 80-90 mm waist for hardpack anyway).  But I think it will be real interesting what they do with the Code.  Maybe like a skinnier Motive?????  On a last note, I'm glad they're making the AC series a bit more practical, as I think the AMR series has potential to be a big hit.

 

Tyler  

post #25 of 187
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
^ on the 98 and 105 - are they now sidewall construction like the 115 or still cap?

 

A little of both. It's called "capwall" and is a sidewall with a rolled over topsheet.

 

SJ

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post #26 of 187
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockSlide View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraJim View PostThere is a totally new Pon2oon with a very much toned down amount of rocker and a much longer conventional section.


Did they change the overall shape of the ski or did the just make the tapered shape less drastic. Also, why do you think they reduced the rocker? It is a powder specific ski after all.



The 2oon looks from a distance much like a Kuro but with (I think) an even longer straight section. As to the why...........while it is a powder specific ski, pushback from consumers was indicating that perhaps it was too much. This impression is permeating the entire industry to some level or other. Hence you are seeing rocker toned down in rise and run, big tapers going away, tip rocker only far outweighing tip and tail rocker and full reverse skis are almost completely moribund. The industry is not doing this blindly. The consumer feedback over the last few years and particularly the last year was indicating that rocker is most acceptable in smaller doses, carefully applied. At this point there is absolutely zero trend toward full house rocker/reverse applications in mainstream or even semi-mainstream models.

 

This deal is nowhere near sorted out yet.

 

SJ

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post #27 of 187

Thanks for the update guys. Sounds like next season we will have some more interesting skis out there. Hopfully there will be some demos of them to be had.

post #28 of 187

2012 Rossi S7 Supers started to arrive. The S7 is now available down to the 188cm along with the 195cm. Epic Supporter Discount does apply. 

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post #29 of 187

I know of a few skiers for whom the Grizz is a perfect fit. The AC50 just doesn't cut it. So I'm glad to see they aren't dumping it yet.

post #30 of 187


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgcatching View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

thanks, interesting, refinement of the new camber concepts and flex. awesome.

 

the 'hero' powder ski has been endangered for some time I think, partly the style of skiing in films and on mountains everywhere has changed.

 

Pros have a great touch with their skis and may not need them uber stiff and heavy, preferring now to take their lines into spines and crazy terrain, than ripping eye rattling speed on every line.


I was thinking about this a bit more; it seems as if pro-level sponsored skiers would get handmade, custom race-room product, the same as the sponsored racers do, and therefore be able to get custom flex and camber, as needed.   If that is the case, then what would a movie shoot have to do with skis that are delivered to the general public?  I am a pretty solid skier, and I am not likely to end up ripping down a high-expsoure, high-risk spine in Alaska at any point in this lifetime.  I doubt many others are either.  So, why make skis that only a couple hundred people in the world are likely to use?  Seems like a much better bet to tailor skis to, at the top end, the hard-charging big mountain resort skier, which is where these are going to end up (at best, but more than likely most will end up on the feet of weekend warriors).  A true pro-level ski may not be approachable to many people (like the old Dynastar XXL).  

 

Blizzard's new all-mountain line was still pretty stout, the new 118 ski was very stiff, quite a bit of low-rise rocker tip and tail. The 108 and 98 looked like very good potential "most days" skis around here; bit of tip and tail rocker, low profile, fair amount of camber.  Pair one of those new 108's with the Magnum 8.1 and it would be a pretty sick, big-mountain, do-everything quiver with most of the bases covered (again, have yet to ski it though).   


I don't know that big mountain pros, from competitions to films, get skis made for them as FIS Alpine racers do. I rather think they get a good pair of public run skis off the rep's van. Hugo's 194 cm Rossignol B-Squads or Nobis' 196cm Legend Pro Riders would be examples (early Nobis Model LPR's were prototypes for him I believe) Early Blizzard Kreitler's were beasts as well. Early pro models like those were not sold in very high numbers certainly, they are so unbelievably stiff and heavy for the average (expert) joe. Those beastly planks pros rode straight lining over rock bands are mostly gone, and the ridiculous lines that are awesome to watch now are in part made possible by the new gear they ride.

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