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Was sold freestyle boots and I don't do freestyle... but they fit?

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 

So I went into get new boots fitted yesterday at a local shop and upon hearing my goals of getting a boot that would be good choice to help me progress from an advanced to expert skiier I ended up walking out with a pair of Nordica Double Six boots which felt fantastic in the shop.

 

However, doing some retrograde research I realize that the Double Sixes are primarily aimed at the freestyle market. I by no means do any freestyle/park stuff and primarily like the steeps and the deeper stuff. Additionally they are progressive flex 80-110. 80 is too low but 110 is probably fine. What's funny is they were without a doubt stiffer than 110 Lange Blaster Pro's that I tried on (I was bending them like putty - obviously temperature is a factor here but not that much?)

 

Obviously I have no idea until/if I actually ride them, but on the unscientific shop floor feel meter, they felt really fantastic and the shell was a very good fit (got me into a 27.5 which is really tight for my feet.) 

 

I'd ride pink ladies boots with extra glitter dispensers if they fit well and stiffened up when I needed them to, but I'm worried that I'm handicapping myself with these park-focused boots?

 

So long story short, if they fit and are firm enough should I just say F-it and take them out? Or should I be going back in and re-iterating my goals and looking for something different?

 

 

 

For the record I'm 6' 195 lbs, and as stated, a high advanced/low expert skiier on a good day. 

post #2 of 19

Looks like a Flexon/Krypton clone to me.  If they fit, there is no reason not to ski them.  One of the descriptions I just read said they are stiff enough for big mountain skiing so they should be fine all over the hill.

 

Mike

post #3 of 19

Did the shop do a shell fit?  If they didn't, I would bet money they are too big.  Go to the "Ask the Boot Guys" forum and read the wikis about boot fitting.  If they didn't fit you the way they should have, you can check the shell size yourself.  If the shell is too big, take them back and get a different size.

post #4 of 19
Thread Starter 

I don't think the shell is too big. He did a shell fit and thought 28.5 would work, but he decided to get me to try a few pairs of boots in 27.5 to see if I could get into them. The 27.5 double sixes were the only 27.5 shell that, with footbeds, I could wear comfortably, the rest all either were too short or crushed my foot laterally, so I think it's safe to say that he got me into the smallest shell he could.

 

I was impressed with them and they guarantee the fit for life, including shell modifications if/when needed. He thought that despite being a park orientated boot it would serve me well given the fit. I just wanted to make sure that was valid and that he wasn't misinformed about the boot or something (he took his time so I don't think he was trying to push just any boot on me.)

post #5 of 19

I think the question would the forward lean lean angle.  Some park boots are really vertical, that would keep you off balance on steeps.

post #6 of 19
Thread Starter 

Ah now that's interesting. I've heard alot about flex and alot about fitment but very little about forward lean but that makes sense. I will say that when wearing the boots I didn't feel noticeably more upright than in the Lange's and Solomon's that I tried (non-park boots.)

 

http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/91819/park-and-pipe-boots-for-all-mountain-use - Mntlion the bootfitter seems to think park boots are just boots and if they fit they fit.

 

I'm starting to think I should accept that they feel good and firm and take them for a ride.

 

 

But lean angle - it's not listed in the specs for boots and i'm not seeing much about it in descriptions. Any way to quantify this other than feel? Obviously I could get out my compass rolleyes.gif

post #7 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtcyclist View Post

Did the shop do a shell fit?  If they didn't, I would bet money they are too big. 



Where would you get that based on what he said? 

post #8 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beefstuinit View Post

I'm starting to think I should accept that they feel good and firm and take them for a ride.

 

 

But lean angle - it's not listed in the specs for boots and i'm not seeing much about it in descriptions. Any way to quantify this other than feel? Obviously I could get out my compass rolleyes.gif



**Caveat:  I'm not the typical Epic techno geek who worries about skis edges in terms of .5 degrees, and I don't debate endlessly about the perfect turn shape like the PSIA geeks around here...  With that said, I was an instructor for 4 years, and a ski tech for 3, so I have a few ideas of how things work...**

 

I'd agree.  "If the boot fits..."  I'm beginning to think more and more that Skiing is about the ENJOYMENT you get from it.  Gear that WORKS FOR YOU is part of that equation.  We can debate endlessly about what is optimal, but I bet if you put me in "optimal" gear for what I describe my usual day on the hill to be, I probably wouldn't be as comfortable, and probably wouldn't enjoy things as much. 

 

Lean angle is pretty subjective, when it could be effected by any number of other factors - boot sole, footbed, binding ramp angle, etc.  If you're any kind of skier, you FLEX THE CUFFS anyway, which will change the forward lean angle as well.  I have boots that have various adjustment for forward lean, and I couldn't tell you what angle even one of them is.  I know that they're comfortable, and I know how to ski the boot/binding/ski combo I happen to be on at that moment.  I don't get too wrapped up in sidecuts, waist width, flex, binding position, and so on. I think part of being a good skier is being able to adapt a bit.  Lots of people I know rip.  Put them on gear other than what they have dialed in, and they're a mess. 

post #9 of 19

I just went to the shop today to replace my beginner level nordica boots, im an advanced skier and bought them when i was an intermediate. Im straight up sick of my shins being black and blue every time i ski a day. I looked at salomons nordicas and dalbellos, i like the tight fit of the dalbellos on the feet the most, i think im going with something in the krypton series, maybe an ill moro or rampage, only complaint ive heard is that the dalbellos arent stiff enough in the tounge, im also going to check out fulltilt boots when i find a shop that carries them, one of my coworkers at the ski area swears by them.

post #10 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowyphil65 View Post

I just went to the shop today to replace my beginner level nordica boots, im an advanced skier and bought them when i was an intermediate. Im straight up sick of my shins being black and blue every time i ski a day. I looked at salomons nordicas and dalbellos, i like the tight fit of the dalbellos on the feet the most, i think im going with something in the krypton series, maybe an ill moro or rampage, only complaint ive heard is that the dalbellos arent stiff enough in the tounge, im also going to check out fulltilt boots when i find a shop that carries them, one of my coworkers at the ski area swears by them.

 

There are a lot of reasons you're getting shin bang.  Even a good boot doesn't necessarily cure that - poor fit is the main culprit.  I've gotten shin bang from high end boots, and been very happy with boots I've paid next to nothing for. 

 

As far as stiffness, try the Krypton Pro.  If that isn't stiff enough, the Full Tilt will probably not be either.

 

I ski in both those boots (Kryp Pro - set up @ 100 flex, and the FT Hotdogger - probably about a 90 flex - #6 tongue).  If stiffness is an issue, the only one to consider is the Kryp Pro or the FT First Chair/Seth.

 

I prefer the Kryp's liner - it's taller and (to me) firmer than FT's (yes - I've been in the stiffer models than thee one I own).

 

Going from an overlap boot to a Cabrio will be very different in feel, but in time, I found it to be superior in every way - FOR ME.  You might not necessarily feel the same.  I like the heel pockets and height - the overall more "snug" fit.

 

Again, be careful about "word of mouth" recommendations", including mine. Everyone is different.  You co-worker might have the perfect foot for the .  You might not. 
 

post #11 of 19

Keep in mind that this ski industry has several manufacturers that market skis specifically designed for women but that differ from the men's skis in top sheet graphics only. So Freestyle boots may just as likely be called All Mountain boots for all we know. OTOH I have seen Park boots that have a piece of the plastic shell toe removed and replaced with a rubber insert. This is done to prevent toe injury when buddy misses the landing.

post #12 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanoT View Post

Keep in mind that this ski industry has several manufacturers that market skis specifically designed for women but that differ from the men's skis in top sheet graphics only. So Freestyle boots may just as likely be called All Mountain boots for all we know. OTOH I have seen Park boots that have a piece of the plastic shell toe removed and replaced with a rubber insert. This is done to prevent toe injury when buddy misses the landing.


Actually you're dating yourself claiming that there are still "several" manufacturers that just "shrink it and pink it" when making womens skis. That was true in the past but over the last 5 years there are very very few of these left. Do you believe that womens specific boots are just "softer and made in pretty colors"?

 

Now as to the original question. One of the biggest differences in many cases between the "freestyle" model of a boot, and the non-freestyle would be the foot board. The freestyle one will have a different material that is better at shock absorption. So really if the boot fits you like a glove and is adequately stiff, it really won't matter what it's labelled.

post #13 of 19

Ski it and see how the forward lean works for you.  I prefer a more neutral position and in the past I always wanted aggressive forward lean.  This could help your skiing.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beefstuinit View Post

Ah now that's interesting. I've heard alot about flex and alot about fitment but very little about forward lean but that makes sense. I will say that when wearing the boots I didn't feel noticeably more upright than in the Lange's and Solomon's that I tried (non-park boots.)

 

post #14 of 19


You are right about one thing persee, i am old school. As far as what ski company marketing departments are doing: i work part time at a performance rental shop and according to the ski reps, Salomon Lord and Lady are identical, so are Nordica Line and Igniter Ca, so are Rossignol S86w and the men's version(S86m?--we don't carry it so I'm not sure of the name). Not sure about this one but I think the Rossignol Avenger 72 is the same as the Viva.

 

The good news is that regarless of the marketing, those are some pretty good skis for pretty good light weight skiers.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by persee View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by DanoT View Post

Keep in mind that this ski industry has several manufacturers that market skis specifically designed for women but that differ from the men's skis in top sheet graphics only. So Freestyle boots may just as likely be called All Mountain boots for all we know. OTOH I have seen Park boots that have a piece of the plastic shell toe removed and replaced with a rubber insert. This is done to prevent toe injury when buddy misses the landing.


Actually you're dating yourself claiming that there are still "several" manufacturers that just "shrink it and pink it" when making womens skis. That was true in the past but over the last 5 years there are very very few of these left. Do you believe that womens specific boots are just "softer and made in pretty colors"?

 

Now as to the original question. One of the biggest differences in many cases between the "freestyle" model of a boot, and the non-freestyle would be the foot board. The freestyle one will have a different material that is better at shock absorption. So really if the boot fits you like a glove and is adequately stiff, it really won't matter what it's labelled.

post #15 of 19



My main problem with shin bang is poor fit, thats why i had a shell liner and boot fit check at the shops i went to, definantly found a size thats right for me, i dont need an incredibly stiff boot since the ones i have now are comperable to the dalbello 80 flex when cranked all the way down, still a little soft but a dalbello 100 flex should do just fine, from what i felt today i prefer the krypton liners as well, the intuition liners are cool but i see them as somewhat of a gimmick. Ive been doing my research and trying on a variety of boots to find the one that fits right, i went cheap the first time, biggest mistake Ive made in skiing, besides launching that 50ft natural kicker and busting a brand new carbon pole in half haha.

Quote:
Originally Posted by axebiker View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by snowyphil65 View Post

I just went to the shop today to replace my beginner level nordica boots, im an advanced skier and bought them when i was an intermediate. Im straight up sick of my shins being black and blue every time i ski a day. I looked at salomons nordicas and dalbellos, i like the tight fit of the dalbellos on the feet the most, i think im going with something in the krypton series, maybe an ill moro or rampage, only complaint ive heard is that the dalbellos arent stiff enough in the tounge, im also going to check out fulltilt boots when i find a shop that carries them, one of my coworkers at the ski area swears by them.

 

There are a lot of reasons you're getting shin bang.  Even a good boot doesn't necessarily cure that - poor fit is the main culprit.  I've gotten shin bang from high end boots, and been very happy with boots I've paid next to nothing for. 

 

As far as stiffness, try the Krypton Pro.  If that isn't stiff enough, the Full Tilt will probably not be either.

 

I ski in both those boots (Kryp Pro - set up @ 100 flex, and the FT Hotdogger - probably about a 90 flex - #6 tongue).  If stiffness is an issue, the only one to consider is the Kryp Pro or the FT First Chair/Seth.

 

I prefer the Kryp's liner - it's taller and (to me) firmer than FT's (yes - I've been in the stiffer models than thee one I own).

 

Going from an overlap boot to a Cabrio will be very different in feel, but in time, I found it to be superior in every way - FOR ME.  You might not necessarily feel the same.  I like the heel pockets and height - the overall more "snug" fit.

 

Again, be careful about "word of mouth" recommendations", including mine. Everyone is different.  You co-worker might have the perfect foot for the .  You might not. 
 

post #16 of 19

Intuition is NOT is gimmick.  They are superior in EVERY way.  You can go cheap and use the factory liner - but you said you had gone cheap in the past however; don't repeat history.  They're warmer, firmer, longer lasting, better fitting...if it's available DO IT. 

 

I'm also trying to understand your flip-flopping...you either need a stiffer boot, or you don't - which is it??  The way you're flaking leads me to believe you haven't really thought through what your needs are and that you are once again basing your decision on price.  Either that or your boot guy doesn't know how to help you find what you need. 

 

BTW - my old Kryps had standard liners before Intuitions.  Their factory liners kinda suck...at least they used to.

 

Oh...and next time, start your own thread.  It's poor form to jump into someone else's.  It's even poorer form for me to let you continue the threadjack.

post #17 of 19

To the OP, you need to ski on those boots before you make any decisions.  Any shop worth their salt will take them back if they are not right for you and your style of skiing.  You will only know once you get them out on the slopes.

 

Case in point, at my shop I was recently talked into custom heat molded Superfeet corks for $150.  They also put me in Dalbello Axion 12's (I have big, stiff feet D width feet with high arches) because they were the most comfortable boot in the shop for me.  Did they do a shell fit?  No.  But they sure wanted to sell those custom insoles.  And guess what, those insoles hurt the *hell* out of my feel once I got the boots out on the slopes.  I ripped the custom soles out at lunch and most of the pain in both feet went away.  But even after the custom soles were removed my right toes were going numb because I had to crank everything down so hard to get the right fit, even with the stock orthotics inserted back in the liners.

 

After reading up on these forums I tried the shell fit test on my own.  Guess what, I have at least an inch or more behind my heel and a centimeter in width on the sides.  You better believe me I'll be demanding a refund for both the boots and soles this week for an improper fit and going somewhere else!  I don't care if they baked the whole shell to your foot, if it was wrong for you, they better be willing to stand by their work!

 

post #18 of 19
Thread Starter 

I think they should probably work for me. Mostly I got hung up on stiffness. They're 80-110 progressive. I'd convinced myself that I needed a 100+ boot period, but in a warm shop these flexed significantly less than the 105 Lange's I tried on. 

 

As I understand it, the reason being is that the 80 flex is in the one piece tongue and the 110 is when you get about 1/4" or so into the flex and a block in the rear of the cuff engages and then it's the spine of the boot with the 110 flex, at which point they feel solid. It feels good on the floor, time will tell how it does on the mountain.

 

Too bad it's raining on Hood all weekend. RAIN. LOTS OF RAIN. mad.gif 50 degree temps down in the valley. Pineapple express can suck it, I haven't been up in 4 weeks due to a vacation and family issues last week, so this will make 5. Good thing I'm going to bachelor next weekend or I'd go insane. 

 

Plan is to ride them then. I'll let people know how my park boot adventure goes out on the steepies.

post #19 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowyphil65 View Post

I just went to the shop today to replace my beginner level nordica boots, im an advanced skier and bought them when i was an intermediate. Im straight up sick of my shins being black and blue every time i ski a day. I looked at salomons nordicas and dalbellos, i like the tight fit of the dalbellos on the feet the most, i think im going with something in the krypton series, maybe an ill moro or rampage, only complaint ive heard is that the dalbellos arent stiff enough in the tounge, im also going to check out fulltilt boots when i find a shop that carries them, one of my coworkers at the ski area swears by them.


Have K Crosses, the perception of tongue softness is more about how the cabrio boots flex; the forward push is linear, not progressive, and so it feels like you're falling forward. Once you get used to it, should be fine. Better suited IMO to freeride/soft snow/bump styles with a more neutral stance than race oriented tip pressure styles. 

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