Edge sharpening - stones?

Kind of curious-if you're using guides how are the stones dulling the edges?

I found the same thing happened to me.  At first the stones worked fine, but after a while I couldn't get that sharp edge I wanted.  I took out the file and scarily long very thin strips of metal came off the edge.  My guess is that the very edge became case hardened (or work-hardened) and were resisting the sharpening process.  Although the cuttings on the floor scared me into thinking I had ruined my skis, after the filing and polishing the skis were sharp again and worked like new. 

P.S. don't forget to use lubrication on those stones.

I started doing my own sharpening once a season because I found that when I had the shop do it, just the slightest deviation between the angle of my guide and the angle of the machine at the shop was causing my stones to take the edge off.  So, now I'm using the file in the same guide as the stones to combat that problem.  And yeah, the amount of metal coming off when I sharpened was scary. 

There isn't as much coming off the edge as you think.  I use a file every single week on my race skis and after 2 full seasons there is still plenty of usable edge left.

I suspect the other thing that happens is you eventually get to a point where more material needs to come off than a sane person can remove with a diamond stone, either because the edge really is rounded or because there is day-to-day variation in the precise setting of the guide.  If you use a multi-tool to hold your stones, look at the corner between the stone and the guide right after you polish,  The removed metal shows up as a gray line.  If it doesn't go right into the corner, something isn't matching up and you are not polishing the actual edge. With a file, you set a new angle and tiny setting differences in your guide won't matter.

The other thing that happens is that the stones eventually wear out.  The difference between a new one and a worn one is often not noticable, other than by using them.

Could also be your diamond files are worn. I've found that they last maybe 2 seasons max and often less.

I find a 200 diamond moonflex works really well for about a season (but i tune a lot of skis) and gets teh edge like I wnat it.  Occasional use of a file as necessary

Everyone has their preferences as to what materials to use, the important thing is to use a tool that keeps your angles accurate and to progress from coarse to finer abrasives.  If you are unable to keep your tools in proper alignment no matter how good an instrument you are using every slight deviation to the plane in which you are working will only dull and or round your edge.

I use a file and a hammer....yes a automotive sheet metal hammer if and when there is such a ding that the metal has been pushed out of shape.  The coarse file will then bring things back closer to the original profile.   From there a 200 Moonstone, a 1200 Moonstone, then a surgical natural stone, to give it the final shine (I used to fit a 600 grit in there but I lost it and have not missed it).   Always use a lubricant, I used to buy the commercially available fluids when I realized that all it appeared to be was a bit of Windex, with alcohol and wintergreen.   So now I mix my own and it works great.

The moonstones are my preference, you can opt to use any of the other types of abrasives, like natural stones or very fine files to accomplish the same thing.  The last steps will inevitable be an ultrafine diamond or natural stone for polishing.

Don't use windex, it has ammonia in it! Not good for your bases. Shrinks plastic. All you need is 50% water, 50% Denatured alcohol.

I have never experienced this dulling effect you guys are talking about.

Are you knocking off the hanging burr and using a Gummi stone at a 45 degree angle to the edge with absolutley no pressure as the final step.

Both of these steps are done DRY.

I also wipe my edge clean and dry after each progressive stone. The edge feels dull when still wet with lube. Wipe it dry and let any moisture evaporate and feel the difference.

I too use a true hardstone/Surgical stone for final honing after any other stones, but before hanging burr removal and gummi stone.

Atomicman, do you use your surgical stone in the file guide or freehand? Also what do you use to deburr prior to the gummi?

I use a surgical or a True Hard stone as the final step on the side edge in a file guide wetted after any diamonds that I use.

I use an identical stone but dry and freehand it perfectly flat against the base edge with about 1/4 of the stone above the side edge (ski,  side edge up in a vise, base away from you) to remove the hanging burr. Then gummi.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kauffee 

 

 

Atomicman, do you use your surgical stone in the file guide or freehand? Also what do you use to deburr prior to the gummi?

hmm....

interesting...

Am I the only one who uses my Cut 0 - Cut 1 - Cut 2 - Moonflex?  This is my process every... 3 - 5 days unless something else happens...

Should I just be running my Diamond Stone over every couple of days rather than actually filing?

I'm using all my guides, and warm water on the diamond stone.

I use a progression of diamond files every day or 2 - 100, 200, 400, 600. (I sometimes skip the 100 and 400 if the snow has been soft). If I am doing race preparation or getting ready for travel (where I want the edges to hold up longer),  I then finish with a progression of SVST polishing stones but I don't do that every week. I try to get new diamond Moonflex at the end of the season sales as I don't find they hold up that well and I do 2 or 3 sets of skis 1 or 2x  weekly. I usually do both base and side edges and don't freehand anything.