Let's all get together and hate.

If you are being serious and not trolling, I would just sign up for a race camp so you don't kill anyone. 

EBAY

Oh, where to start here....
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterMagician 

I've been out of racing for almost 12 seasons now, and am used to extremely stiff 70's vintage DH boards at (I think) 217cm.

 

So what are my options for straightest and stiffest modern DH boards?  Also, where might I buy some gates?  I plan to train on old class A trails like the Thunderbolt on Mount Greylock, because it's usually empty and extremely technical, and also perhaps a bit at Sugarloaf where they actually tolerate civilians skiing at 80+ mph, but not on Narrow Gauge because obviously CVA has that baby locked down when the snow is fast enough.  So I'll need my own gates, drill, flags, etc...

First things first: a "straight and stiff" DH rig won't work well in most modern DH courses, which are set with far more turns than used to be the case.  As mentioned earlier, you can find good, modern DH and SG boards on eBay, as well as from online race-oriented shops like Edgewise (they have consignment skis for sale in great shape, and all are tuned by Graham Lonetto, a former World Cup ski tech).

That said, your training plan sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.

First of all, there's no way that any ski resort would let you set gates on a trail for any kind of training.  Academies, resort teams, high school and college teams and clubs all work closely with resort management to work out issues of trail use, liability and safety.  The teams set on pre-approved trails and take appropriate safety measures.  If you tried to to this on your own, without working with the resort on safety considerations, you'll likely find yourself kicked off the mountain (sometimes for good, if things go down in a negative way).

This goes doubly (if not far more than that) for training speed events, where safety nets are often required and large swaths of mountain closed to the public.  Most speed training takes place during off-hours at resorts, typically early morning, prior to the public having lift access.  This allows the teams (and the resorts) to setup courses with proper conditions, safety fencing and nets, and the minimum chance of the public skiing onto a course (lemme tell 'ya, you never, ever want to hit another skier going at DH or SG speeds - it's nasty for all involved).  Otherwise, sure, the racers will freeski on DH or SG boards, but not at full speed - and ski patrol is keenly aware of the racers who train at their resort and are most adept at pulling passes for those who push the limits (and yes, Sugarloaf is well aware, too).

As far as the Thunderbolt trail goes, good luck getting the Massachusetts State Parks officials to smile upon folks setting up gates and such on the trail without a permit - ain't gonna happen.  They're all too aware of the liability involved, and any races that take place on the T'bolt are approved well ahead of time.

As MojoMan suggested, your best bet is to attend a speed camp and some of the speed races organized by New England Masters Ski Racing.  They tend to have short camps before their speed events, take all the necessary precautions, and put on top-notch events.  also worth looking into is the series run as the North American Downhill Series (or N.A.D.S.).  This is a series of non-USSA speed events in New England, the most famous being the George Syrovatka DH at Jay Peak in March.

So hook up with a local masters racing club and see what can be done.  Going it on your own, tempting as it may seem, is asking for trouble on many fronts.

Just my $0.02 as another DH racer from years past.

lol tell bode miller that his sport is soft.

but yeah I grew up racing in the east and have no idea where you think you are going to set a race course (let alone a down hill) on an open trail and not be bothered by anyone.

Have you even thought how long it would take you to set and then rip a course all by yourself?

Your best bet is like the other guy said, get into some of the speed camps they have.  Stratton has one that I had a really good time at a few times as a junior, im sure you can find something for grown ups.

As an independent racer who has been racing in the Sugarloaf and Okemo DH's and SG's for the past three years, who is going Canadian FIS Easterns this year for DH/SG/SC, and trained 15 full days for SG/DH and over 70 logged miles on DH skis last season in training I could easily give you input. First off, don't bother with the gates. There is absolutely no need to set your own SG or DH course. Hell, CVA and OMS RARELY do, and when they do they usually have company in town paying for the gates to be put up. The best way to prepare for speed events is simply getting time in on long skis and getting experience with speed.

I had a whole paragraph written out about how to do all of it right, but I refuse to post it now after I read the part where you said "the sport is going soft" with safety and all. You obviously have no clue what is being risked when you go barreling ass down the mountain at 65mph. Frankly, no one gives a shit about you, its the other people on the mountain that are of concern. When I train DH/SG I ALWAYS put the public's safety above mine, waiting for trails to clear to take my run and stopping if people appear 100 feet ahead of me. No innocent person should get hurt because of some selfish junkie looking for a fix of speed.

@MasterMagician

could you post some pics of your skiing? It sounds really interesting how you are so effective at bending your skis when it seems things have been moving towards longitudinally softer skis and boots. Is your style/technique really unique?

Can I play too?

Your best bet is ebay, I would suggest some old-school Kästle DH or even SGs.  You should be able to eventually find a pair of 215 SGs, which were commonly used by recreational skiers as well as racers back in the day, and are fairly stiff, and more importantly for you have a long radius and won't wobble.

From your description of your skiing, I think attending a speed camp would be a very good idea for you.

As to your fall at the Jay-Peak race, I don't think it is the ski's fault, even at a piddly 40-m radius those DHs should have worked well enough.  The speeds achievable on that course are not all that high.  It is more likely you had a poorly fitted boot or a sloppy binding.

While I share your attitude about too many turns making courses too slow, I think the increase in jumps compensates.  These racers are wusses anyway, what with all that safety netting and course preparation.  Real men ski real terrain at real speed with you fall you die consequences.   (these days I ski groomers with no consequences, but the older I get the better I was)

However I agree with Rise to the top, public safety must come first!  To illustrate, one year back in the late 80's I skied the Jay Peak race and some doofus came onto the course and stared uphill as he did not expect me to be skiing down (I was a late addition to the list).  I seeing him in the way came out of my tuck to ditch some speed and was prepared to take evasive action.  Doofus saw me and got off the course, but I probably lost a good 10 mph by then.

I cold tell you where the best place is to practice high speed skiing is, but then I would have to kill you.

This series of posts by MasterMagician has some of the funniest stuff I have read in ages. I keep waiting for some comment about infidels. Here are some selected gems (keep 'em coming):

...but now I'm 28 and on my feet and it's time to give it another shot before I wreck my knee in powder like everybody seems to eventually do.

So I'll need my own gates, drill, flags, etc...

Every ski in my quiver has always been what the industry falsely considers "too long, too narrow, too stiff," not only for my body (5'9" 150lbs), but for anyone.  

As far as asking for trouble... Yes... I am.  I believe the entire sport has gone soft in recent years, valuing safety-facism and commercialism over speed and true technical skiing prowess,

That having been said, thank you for your genuine $0.02 and not automatically considering this obvious and unashamed luddite to be a troll, unlike the other yokel above, whose trite, mundane and all-to-typical attitude is exactly why I have such a hard time finding skis

Where is the America I knew as a boy?

" """ [he's[All here should take it for granted that when I ski at maximum speed, I'm doing so only where it's reasonable, i.e. racer friendly mountain on a bitter cold day when all the intermediates are glued to their hot cocoa in the lodge, and all the other experts are in the woods because it's warmer in the woods without the wind.

Also... since I'm getting so much resistance from some on the matter of safety, I'm hesitant to offer pictures of myself for fear that some officious nebbish might misuse my likeness in the interests of public safety.  If you want images, I'll need solid assurances, perhaps even in writing, that it won't be used for purposes contrary to my mission.

Why not start an adult ski race club? Then you could easily work out a deal with local mountains and close a run or two to practice, and get some more experience skiing a course that has been skied by others. I would gladly join such a club if there was one in my area, instead ill continue skiing at maximum velocity (about 60 on my hill) on my 193's. Dont worry, we only have about 50 skiers on weekdays.

It's outright Un-American isn't it.  People of talent are being held back and aren't allowed to blossom and bear fruit as nature intended.  The world is holding you back and it's just not fair.  Me?  I blame your parents.  They should have been smart enough to drop the foal in a greener pasture but what the heck; here you are and stuck with us.

Write your Congressman-Congresswoman person and just demand your rights.  Are you part Indian?  That may help.  Not one of those people from like Asia but the other Indian like the picture on the tank of motorcycles?  Now if you were a Motorcycle Indian, you could protest and say that it is part of your cultural heritage to communicate with the Great and Fast Spirit of The Mountain and you must fly like the wind and soar like the eagle to talk stuff with him.  Or her.  Where I live or colloquially, in these parts or my neck of the woods and such the Motorcycle Indians protested and gained the freedom to do as their ancestors did.  They can shoot guns while drinking beer on their ATV's.

If you want, give me the name of the Congressperson and we can start a petition for you to come forth and blossom.  Like Michael Jackson, people never really appreciate genius do they.

Cheers and God Speed

One of the things I'll be working on soon will be my patented, kind of like girls shoes, inflatable mountain.  You could take it out and just blow it up and go as fast as you like.  No rules except your own.  Like those guys who chase storms on the Weather Channel, you could chase snow all over and not have to worry about crowds or, gosh golly, even a pesky elevation.  Heck, if you are in the middle of the flat lands of Kanas or someplace like Manitoba, all you have to do is wait for a dump and pull over.  Plug the inflatable race course or mountain into your cigar lighter and up and off you go.  The gates would be incorporated with the hill and if you fall down its' only air under you.  It could come complete with (optional of course), inflatable course workers, gate judges and friends to cheer you on.

Wherever you go you will go secure in the knowledge that in the trunk of your car you have your personal, gem peppy ready to go race hill.  What more could a guy want? 

Wanna trade a pair of 1980 DH boards for some of what your smoking on your couch? It's gotta be good stuff!

Johnny

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yuki 

One of the things I'll be working on soon will be my patented, kind of like girls shoes, inflatable mountain.  You could take it out and just blow it up and go as fast as you like.  No rules except your own.  Like those guys who chase storms on the Weather Channel, you could chase snow all over and not have to worry about crowds or, gosh golly, even a pesky elevation.  Heck, if you are in the middle of the flat lands of Kanas or someplace like Manitoba, all you have to do is wait for a dump and pull over.  Plug the inflatable race course or mountain into your cigar lighter and up and off you go.  The gates would be incorporated with the hill and if you fall down its' only air under you.  It could come complete with (optional of course), inflatable course workers, gate judges and friends to cheer you on.

 

Wherever you go you will go secure in the knowledge that in the trunk of your car you have your personal, gem peppy ready to go race hill.  What more could a guy want? 

  Two excellent posts!  What are you smoking?  Can you send some my way?

 Go to whiteface and bomb away on giant old straight dh skis on the 1980 men's downhill run. Thats the best way to make a comeback after 12 years!

Just let me video you doing it. I won't even bother to charge my battery because you will be severly injured within 30 seconds.

Use EXTRA wax!

So how much speed training do you already have? I've met a lot of racers who never competed in speed events. Every year one of my kid's friends drools at my  collection of old 223cm C4's, RX's and Red Sleds in the garage and asks if they can try them. I just smile and say no. If you're only going 65 mph I'd recommend getting a pair of modern SGs and some real race boots that are perfectly fitted. I have a pair of 2007 Atomic SGs that I get in a few days each year on. They are absolutely worthless on a public run where people are present. They easily handle citizen DH or SG speeds. If you're serious talk to a rep (not a ski shop) about the right length, plate  and binding set-up. At only 150# your are much lighter than most male speed event skiers for which the skis are designed. Several my smaller skiing friends use women's models with great success.

As for safety, you might take a look at Ulrike's Maier's 1994 fatal crash at Garmisch on YouTube before bombing down any public run at anything near race speeds. At 65 you're travelling at almost 100'/sec.There's a reason the courses are so carefully prepped.

Now go out and have fun.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimiB 

As for safety, you might take a look at Ulrike's Maier's 1994 fatal crash at Garmisch on YouTube before bombing down any public run at anything near race speeds. At 65 you're travelling at almost 100'/sec.There's a reason the courses are so carefully prepped.

Yeah, one little wind ridge going all the way across the run can ruin your whole day.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterMagician 

As far as the Jay Peak downhill.  I skied in it once ('03? '04? I can't remember which season), and crashed spectacularly on my qualifying run, right near the bottom in full schuss, a crash I feel was because my skis were too short and shaped and were squirly underfoot.  They were the stiffest longest thing available to me at the time, 211cm Atomic DH boards that were maybe 2001 vintage.  I don't remember what the radar gun reading was when I spilled but it was among the faster readings.  That was a few seasons after the training I had in high school.

 

Wimp!,  only time I skied the Jay Peak DH I did it on a 195 GS (consumer, not race stock) and still got clocked at 69 and finished right side up. What he heck do you need 217 cm for??  a crutch??

Sure, some of this is amusing simply because of how outrageous MasterMagician's thoughts are, but its also scary.  Take it from a current 18 year old racer, safety in speed events is no joke, which you are making it out to be.  Simply google Rebecca McGill or Kelly Brush and you will see why it is so important to not do EXACTLY what you are talking about doing.  It is also ridiculous to blame a crash because for a 5'9" 150 lbs man overpowered a 211 downhill ski.  That is just plain silly.  Its like this one guy who told me he blamed his ski crash on the fact that he wasn't on straight skis.  Maybe it was actually you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcahill 

This series of posts by MasterMagician has some of the funniest stuff I have read in ages.

Skimadriver,

You are correct, safety is no joke regarding speed events. I just attended a masters speed camp out here in Colorado for the first time. This is my second year doing masters racing and at 54 yeqars old I take safety very seriously. Besides being well past my physical prime I also find it takes longer to learn new skills so learning and racing in a safe environment is important to me (given the inherent risks of the sport). I was not trying to make light of safety. I was just amused at the way the magician worded his thoughts. I agree that it is a bit scary and I would not want to be on the same mountain when he was "training".  I appreciate the maturity shown in your concern.  I wish more folks had your attitude.

On another note, I probably should not post the link to the 238cm Atomic speed skis for sale I found. Imagine the havoc the magician could create with those. :)

Skimadriver,

You're right, safety is no joke. If nothing else your first high speed fall will teach that valuable lesson.  I'm not sure what sort of  "career" this person had. Unless my math is wrong it ended when he was about 16. As someone who flipped burgers and pounded nails I found the "rich man's sport" comment the saddest part. Living in a van for months isn't so bad when you're skiing everyday. But at least he possesses the cajones to want to try and get back into it. If USSA doesn't want him there always the Freeride World Tour.

I'd encourage anyone with the gumption and necessary skills to get some real training  and have some fun under controlled conditions. It's either exhilerating or utterly terrifying.

The fact that only a woman as big and strong as Reisch or Vonn can possibly over power a modern woman's DH race ski puts things into perspective. Last time I checked, the FIS DH and SG Equipment Regs were the same for men and women with respect to 1.) min radius and 2.) min underfoot ski width. In my opinion there's no comparison between a modern speed ski and an older DH ski. Modern wins hands down.

MOST IMPORTANTLY Big Thumbs up to RCAHILL for getting into Masters after 50!

Quote:

Originally Posted by skimadriver 

Sure, some of this is amusing simply because of how outrageous MasterMagician's thoughts are, but its also scary.  Take it from a current 18 year old racer, safety in speed events is no joke, which you are making it out to be.  Simply google Rebecca McGill or Kelly Brush and you will see why it is so important to not do EXACTLY what you are talking about doing.  It is also ridiculous to blame a crash because for a 5'9" 150 lbs man overpowered a 211 downhill ski.  That is just plain silly.  Its like this one guy who told me he blamed his ski crash on the fact that he wasn't on straight skis.  Maybe it was actually you.

 

I agree, HUGE thumbs up to rcahill.  Glad to see that you are doing this, as I also have what will become a life long love of ski racing.  I also agree with what you are saying about the wording.  I was not trying to mock you in any way or anything when I quoted you.  I also fully support MasterMagician's want to get back into ski racing, and he is correct that ski racing was much, much different 12 years ago when he last raced.  Just please be safe about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcahill 

Skimadriver,

You are correct, safety is no joke regarding speed events. I just attended a masters speed camp out here in Colorado for the first time. This is my second year doing masters racing and at 54 yeqars old I take safety very seriously. Besides being well past my physical prime I also find it takes longer to learn new skills so learning and racing in a safe environment is important to me (given the inherent risks of the sport). I was not trying to make light of safety. I was just amused at the way the magician worded his thoughts. I agree that it is a bit scary and I would not want to be on the same mountain when he was "training".  I appreciate the maturity shown in your concern.  I wish more folks had your attitude.

 

On another note, I probably should not post the link to the 238cm Atomic speed skis for sale I found. Imagine the havoc the magician could create with those. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimiB 

Skimadriver,

 

You're right, safety is no joke. If nothing else your first high speed fall will teach that valuable lesson.  I'm not sure what sort of  "career" this person had. Unless my math is wrong it ended when he was about 16. As someone who flipped burgers and pounded nails I found the "rich man's sport" comment the saddest part. Living in a van for months isn't so bad when you're skiing everyday. But at least he possesses the cajones to want to try and get back into it. If USSA doesn't want him there always the Freeride World Tour.

 

I'd encourage anyone with the gumption and necessary skills to get some real training  and have some fun under controlled conditions. It's either exhilerating or utterly terrifying.

 

The fact that only a woman as big and strong as Reisch or Vonn can possibly over power a modern woman's DH race ski puts things into perspective. Last time I checked, the FIS DH and SG Equipment Regs were the same for men and women with respect to 1.) min radius and 2.) min underfoot ski width. In my opinion there's no comparison between a modern speed ski and an older DH ski. Modern wins hands down.

 

MOST IMPORTANTLY Big Thumbs up to RCAHILL for getting into Masters after 50!

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by skimadriver 

Sure, some of this is amusing simply because of how outrageous MasterMagician's thoughts are, but its also scary.  Take it from a current 18 year old racer, safety in speed events is no joke, which you are making it out to be.  Simply google Rebecca McGill or Kelly Brush and you will see why it is so important to not do EXACTLY what you are talking about doing.  It is also ridiculous to blame a crash because for a 5'9" 150 lbs man overpowered a 211 downhill ski.  That is just plain silly.  Its like this one guy who told me he blamed his ski crash on the fact that he wasn't on straight skis.  Maybe it was actually you.

 

Just a quick correction to your assessment of Reisch and Vonn: while Riesch skis on a women's DH setup, Vonn skis on men's DH skis.  Not that it takes anything away from how well they pilot said skis in some of the most extreme conditions (and the women see more variable stuff than the men, given that course injection isn't compulsory on the women's World Cup circuit).

Otherwise, you are correct about the basic dimensional limits vis-a-vis men's and women's FIS-legal DH equipment.  And modern DH skis, while still tough to navigate for most, are a lot easier to turn than their longer, straighter forbears were.  I raced a lot of DH on the old equipment (could carve on it, though it was like turning a battleship and took a lot of effort to be clean in tighter turns), and switching to more modern boards made for far more efficient skiing: more energy to put into finding the fastest lines, etc.

Thanks for correcting my error in statement about Maria, testing doesn't mean competing.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by songfta 

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimiB 

 

The fact that only a woman as big and strong as Reisch or Vonn can possibly over power a modern woman's DH race ski puts things into perspective. Last time I checked, the FIS DH and SG Equipment Regs were the same for men and women with respect to 1.) min radius and 2.) min underfoot ski width. In my opinion there's no comparison between a modern speed ski and an older DH ski. Modern wins hands down.

Just a quick correction to your assessment of Reisch and Vonn: while Riesch skis on a women's DH setup, Vonn skis on men's DH skis.  Not that it takes anything away from how well they pilot said skis in some of the most extreme conditions (and the women see more variable stuff than the men, given that course injection isn't compulsory on the women's World Cup circuit).

 

Otherwise, you are correct about the basic dimensional limits vis-a-vis men's and women's FIS-legal DH equipment.  And modern DH skis, while still tough to navigate for most, are a lot easier to turn than their longer, straighter forbears were.  I raced a lot of DH on the old equipment (could carve on it, though it was like turning a battleship and took a lot of effort to be clean in tighter turns), and switching to more modern boards made for far more efficient skiing: more energy to put into finding the fastest lines, etc.

You can smoke stuff to think like this?  Now, I'm scared. 

You sir, are no more and no less than a cheap imitation of Thigh Cheese Skiing.

Or you are TaiChiSkiing with a new persona.

I can sell you a "Turbo-Pump" for that blow up race hill. 

For you, as a repeat customer we can do $49.95 + S&H.

As a bonus I'll toss in an adjustable Tag-(you're it)-Heuer clock that always lets you win. 

I talked to the good people over at Reliable Racing and The Race Place.  They are waiting for your call.

"Operators are standing by" but there is a strict limit so please call now.

(insert pic of ever-so-cute girl wearing a headset and a gem-peppy smile)