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New plug boots

post #1 of 8
Thread Starter 

Hello, I really need some help here! I have been skiing in Lange 2004 plug boot for a long time now.  I am a ski instructor, nor a racer, but use plug boots due to extremely narrow heel. I can literally fit 2 foot into any regular boot.  How do I choose between RL12 and R2006?

 

1. Which one is more upright RL12 or R2006?

2. I have heard R2006 has a "shorter flex". What does it mean while yo ski?

3. I also heard that RL12 is good for slalom and not as good for everything else? What is that statement refers to?

 

Please help!

post #2 of 8

The R2006 at 12 degrees is more upright than the RL12 at 14.

 

The pivot locations on the two boots are different giving the R2006 a briefer mid range of flex.

 

The lower shell on the RL12 was offset, similar to Nordica and Atomic boots. The R2006 is neutral.

 

Some people will tell you that an offset lower shell creates a bias towards the inside edge. 

 

The RL12 has gone away and the R2006 chassis is the basis for the current (and future) Lange and Rossignol boots.

 

'Nuff said.

 

 

jl

post #3 of 8
Thread Starter 

Could you please elaborate more on: "The pivot locations on the two boots are different giving the R2006 a briefer mid range of flex"? 

 

The question of the correct flex and flex index is my pain point! As I said I do not race and use plug boots due to very narrow heel and appreciation of direct contact between foot and shell of the boot. 

 

I feel super comfortable in 130 flex for plugs. However, my stance remains neutral to slightly forward and now days PSIA desire to see very forward to extremely forward stance (we all know it is inefficient, but should be able to demonstrate it and then it does not make sense to argue with authorities).  So when I go to softer flex, I can easily get "crazy forward" as PSIA wants me to be, however I do not feel support from my boots. I feel like I am falling down on my knees in every turn and then I have to make a huge effort to recover, it is super tiring. Nothing like that happens in 130 flex, no falling to my knees, no tiring, but no extreme forward stance as well.   

 

1. I was wondering, would this "briefer mid range of flex" feel like when you ski and would it help me with my issue?

2. I know there is a fore/aft flex and lateral flex to the boot. Is the possible to have stiffer fore/aft flex (so I would not fall to my knees in every turn) and softer lateral flex so I could excel in "foreagonal" movement and please my PSIA examiners?

post #4 of 8

It impossible to assess your individual needs via the Internet.

 

There is a lot more that goes into fore/aft balance than the flex and forward lean of a boot.

 

Besides, unless you have extremely narrow feet with no prominent features, you aren't going to get into that boot ( in the correct size) without the help of a skilled bootfitter, they can help you with the rest of it.

 

jl

 

post #5 of 8

Stroller, in what division of PSIA are you?  That extreme forward stance directive is news to me?  Is this perhaps one examiner or clinician's POV or is this a divisional directive?  I know that in my Western division, the push has been the opposite, to get more upright.  I believe either focus is a bit overgeneralized and inaccurate as a blanket statement.  There are many morphologies out there and as Jim said, there is a lot more that goes into fore/aft alignment than flex and forward lean.  Each skier needs to find their optimum positioning in their boots and bindings to zero in on their fore/aft dynamic balance.  Poor boot set up can lead to poor ski stances and misguided directives from clinicians on compensatory movements, rather than correct fixes.  

 

Physiology, Psychology, Fitness, Equipment (alignment and tuning), Technique,  these five areas need to be considered in an effort to optimize skiing performance in my mind.  I may be missing something? but when I watch a student ski, I am considering these factors into what I am seeing.  The one area which is the easiest to change and optimize is the equipment and offers immediate results.  Remove this impediment and the rest becomes easier!

 

I think you answered your own question regarding boot flex?  

 

Sorry I am perhaps a bit off topic here.

 

 

 

post #6 of 8
Thread Starter 

I am one of those misfortunate people that CAN get into the plug boot of the correct size without bootfitter!  I am also stuck in Chicago till the end of March and bootfitters here have different customer base who are not looking to buy plugs, therefore practical experience is scarce, plug boots are nonexistent in stock. 

 

So my only choice is to learn as much as possible before I will come back to Colorado in late March and fit my boots, which will have to be ordered before hand as my size is 23.5 - not many shops have it.

 

I would like to clarify, I am not looking to fix my skiing with the boots. I am happy with my skiing, I just need the right boot to complement it.  Would you please help me understand:

 1. How it feels while you are skiing to have shorter flex?

 2. I understand that skier could be falling forward to the knees due to excessive forward flex, but assuming skier is aligned in fore/aft plane, can too soft of a boot create effect of falling to the knees?

 3. Is lateral flex is what is working when you flex the boot under 45 angle - foregonal?

 4. Do you choose the flex of the boot by forward or lateral flex?

 5. Is it possible and/or helpful to get stiffer forward flex and softer lateral flex?

 

Thank you very much! I need to get an understanding of how it works.


Edited by stroller - 1/4/11 at 9:15pm
post #7 of 8
Thread Starter 

Bud,

For the past 5 years since I become PSIA member, I have noticed that Western division has more of a functional approach to skiing technique.

I am in PSIA-C and it is a divisional direction so far to “initiate all turns by loading tip of the ski”. It is a requirement to be in the forward position at the end of the turn and move even more forward at the initiation of the turn in order to load this ski tips.

One might not agree or disagree with this, but I have learned that all these tasks while do not make any sense for chosen application, do improve your overall skills and versatility. So I intend to perfect this extreme forward move where you make your femurs almost vertical just for the sake of widening my comfort range.

At this point, I have been told by 3 PSIA-C examiners and  D-team member that my boots too stiff and do not allow me to make this forward move to make my femurs vertical. However, when I take softer boots, I feel like I am falling on my knees. What is the trick?

post #8 of 8
Thread Starter 

I would like to clarify further topic of boot stiffness and forward lean angle.  Should a stiffer boot have more of forward lean angle comparing to softer boot?

 

I am currently in stiffer (130-140) boots that are very upright. If I am standing with in neutral position with equal pressure on shins and back of the boot, the plumb line from my knee cap will point just in front of my ball of foot (somewhere between the buckle and the rubber thing that sticks out and people often cover with duct tape).  Is that optimal?  

 

Also, if I maintain equal pressure of shins and back of the boot, should I be able to squad so my tights are parallel to the floor without getting back? Should I be able to squad like that when I am bending my boots? What is the most efficient forward lean angle in your opinion?

 

Regurding stiffness, I am not sure if 130-140 is the right stiffness for me. How do you choose the stiffness of the boot? I have tried softer boots with more forward lean and I felt I was falling to my knees and my quads were burning all the time.

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