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Can someone please explain to me K2 "damp" designation

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 

First of all, I am new to these forums and wanted to thank everyone for their input and explanations. There is tremendous amount of info contained on these pages and they have helped me greatly in my search for new skis.  I have kept my old 184cm rossi carvers for 11 years and decided it was time to replace. I am 6'1" 205 lbs and ski fairly aggressively. I like steep so no interest in blues - mostly blacks and doubles - been skiing since age 13, now 31. I am not good in moguls although that is one area i would like to improve upon and learn to do better. 90% of my skiings is on groomed fake snow & ice - but that is all we have in the Midwest (Cincinnati). I take a trip out west once a year for ~3-4 days of real skiing but like I mentioned 80-90% of my ski days will be here in Cincinnati or, at best, Snowshoe WV. My price limit for new pair of skis and bindings is <$500 and plan to keep them for quite a few years.  No way for me to demo skis...

 

Anyway, after 2-3 days of trolling the forums, reading reviews, etc. I found a good deal (I think) on a pair of 09/10 K2 Apache Crossfire 177cm which i ordered and are on the way. $475 shipped with Marker M 12.0 demo bindings that come with them.  Also does anyone know if these will come mounted on there or if I will have to take them somewhere to get them mounted? This is near my spending limit and much more than I thought I would spend initially...

 

My main question. Now that I read up a bit more about K2 - Jim and Scott and few others keep referring to them as "DAMP", like most K2s. But I cannot figure out what that means? Can someone please explain this term?  For my height/weight, and money involved, am I making the right choice here with Crossfires? Or would I be just as well served with a pair of Head c220i railflex 177cm mounted with head bindings from Level9Sports.com for $200? These are only 68mm underfoot and I cannot find much info about them really - but they seem like a basic carver. Also a local ski instructor has a pair of barely used 07/08 Dynastar Mythic Riders which he'll take $250 for.  So technically I could get Heads and Mythics both for less than a pair of Crossfires? Use Heads locally and Mythics if I go somewhere with real snow - although I am sure there is a learning curve for fatter underfoot.

 

Any help is appreciated. I am probably overthinking all this...

post #2 of 11

Let me try to help...most likely the bindings are system bindings and will be easy to install but it wouldn't be installed already.  Liability and all that mess would likely keep the shop from pre-mounting your skis.  Onto "damp"  When most skiers call a ski damp they are talking about the skis inherent lack of vibration coming up from the snow.  Whereas some skis really allow the terrain to transmit up to your legs.  Manufacturers attempt to dampen most skis to some degree.  K2 is well known for going above and beyond to really dampen their skis.  The drawback there can be a lack of feel for the snow.  Think of the suspension in a luxury sedan and how it smooths out the road.  A damp ski is somewhat similar. 

 

As for ski choice, there is a ton of personal opinion there.  The Crossfire (in my opinion) is a decent groomer ski, a so-so bump ski.  The Mythics are a terrific ski but not likely to be your first choice at home.  Unfortunately, I'm not too familiar with the Heads you've mentioned.  Hope that help a little

post #3 of 11
Thread Starter 

skierhj - that explanation of damp helps tremendously. so it's not necessarily a bad thing, but a matter of personal preference. thanks very much.

 

i didn't mention i also ordered 3 different pairs of boots to try on here at home and return 2 of the 3 afterwards. i figured the ~$20 it will cost me to return 2 pairs is worth it - due to all advice to make sure and try on multiple boots. Got Lange Fluid 12 and Tecnica Agent 110 from evo as well as pair of Rossi B-Squad Pro 130 from stp. these are all either last year or year before models.

 

also I have a coupon good for 35% off $100+ and free shipping for sierra - but valid today only and only good for 3 orders. so if anyone wants it - let me know and i will PM. this will bring the cost of crossfires to the above mentioned price on their site if anyone else is interested. they have other skis/boots as well.

 

cheers!

post #4 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by idrobnjak View Post

First of all, I am new to these forums and wanted to thank everyone for their input and explanations. There is tremendous amount of info contained on these pages and they have helped me greatly in my search for new skis.  I have kept my old 184cm rossi carvers for 11 years and decided it was time to replace. I am 6'1" 205 lbs and ski fairly aggressively. I like steep so no interest in blues - mostly blacks and doubles - been skiing since age 13, now 31. I am not good in moguls although that is one area i would like to improve upon and learn to do better. 90% of my skiings is on groomed fake snow & ice - but that is all we have in the Midwest (Cincinnati). I take a trip out west once a year for ~3-4 days of real skiing but like I mentioned 80-90% of my ski days will be here in Cincinnati or, at best, Snowshoe WV. My price limit for new pair of skis and bindings is <$500 and plan to keep them for quite a few years.  No way for me to demo skis...

 

Anyway, after 2-3 days of trolling the forums, reading reviews, etc. I found a good deal (I think) on a pair of 09/10 K2 Apache Crossfire 177cm which i ordered and are on the way. $475 shipped with Marker M 12.0 demo bindings that come with them.  Also does anyone know if these will come mounted on there or if I will have to take them somewhere to get them mounted? This is near my spending limit and much more than I thought I would spend initially...

 

My main question. Now that I read up a bit more about K2 - Jim and Scott and few others keep referring to them as "DAMP", like most K2s. But I cannot figure out what that means? Can someone please explain this term?  For my height/weight, and money involved, am I making the right choice here with Crossfires? Or would I be just as well served with a pair of Head c220i railflex 177cm mounted with head bindings from Level9Sports.com for $200? These are only 68mm underfoot and I cannot find much info about them really - but they seem like a basic carver. Also a local ski instructor has a pair of barely used 07/08 Dynastar Mythic Riders which he'll take $250 for.  So technically I could get Heads and Mythics both for less than a pair of Crossfires? Use Heads locally and Mythics if I go somewhere with real snow - although I am sure there is a learning curve for fatter underfoot.

 

Any help is appreciated. I am probably overthinking all this...



First Welcome to Epic.  I am not familiar with mid-America skiing but guessing/no won't guess.  The description of "damp" is oftentimes used to describe K2 skis.  I owned a pair of K2 Outlaws for years and loved the "dampness".  My unofficial, KISS no technical description would be:  My Outlaws were very predictable, did not skitter off line, did not bounce off line, did not deflect off line and were one of the most comfortable ski's I have ever ridden at med. speed or real high speed. Predictable, true to their and my line and confidence inspiring at speeds especially.

 

Maybe a little comparison, I have ridden skis that are unforgiving and if you make even a little mistake-they might spit you out/slam you down real quick.  Or a ski  that is a highly tuned machine that you had better be ON all the time, no relaxing, no technique let up and they performed really well - but oh don't relax.  Great skis but boy did they tire me out.  Or skis that are just non performing nothing boards. The K2 you bought are DAMP and will show you the ride I described above.

 

Sorry for the non-tech nical description but I am a non-technical guy.  If you like what I described when skiing you will like the Crossfires.

 

Have a great winter on your new boards and if you ever come to the Inland Pacfiic Northwest send me a PM and will show you around.

post #5 of 11
Thread Starter 

Thanks Pete, that is also very helpful.  Since I am not an expert (yet!) this actually sounds appealing, although anything will be better than my old Rossis. Our upcoming trip is to Jackson Hole more than likely in February - which is a little away from you.

 

But I spent a month in Spokane in college and had a grand ol' time. we skied may areas up there  - mainly though Spokane Mountain and then some place right on the border of Idaho and Montana - where some runs are in one state and others in another.  We also went up to Nelson, BC and skied Whitewater. That is an awesome memory, 3 lifts take you to 3 different bowls from what i remember.... 

post #6 of 11
Thread Starter 

By the way - is anyone else hung over today? My head is still killing me...

post #7 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by idrobnjak View Post

Thanks Pete, that is also very helpful.  Since I am not an expert (yet!) this actually sounds appealing, although anything will be better than my old Rossis. Our upcoming trip is to Jackson Hole more than likely in February - which is a little away from you.

 

But I spent a month in Spokane in college and had a grand ol' time. we skied may areas up there  - mainly though Spokane Mountain and then some place right on the border of Idaho and Montana - where some runs are in one state and others in another.  We also went up to Nelson, BC and skied Whitewater. That is an awesome memory, 3 lifts take you to 3 different bowls from what i remember.... 

 

 

Small world.   Lookout Pass on ID - Montana border.    Have a great winter and again Welcome to Epic. 

post #8 of 11

 

I was also looking at the K2's.  I've read on here that K2' being damp, and possible with more flex make them "not the best" for ice conditions.  If I gather correctly a harder ski that will hold an edge on ice is preferred if yo ski on hard packed or ice conditions (midwest for me).  However this might come from expert skiers and for intermediate the k2's might be good enough.   I've not skiid them yet so I don't  know how bad they would be in ice.  I'm also a big guy at 5' 10 - 235 lbs, so a ski with some flex for the average size skiier is going to have even more flex for me, possibly affecting the limit of handling in other conditions.

post #9 of 11

Take a rubber band and stretch it real tight. That is the opposite of damp. The rubber is very energetic when plucked and vibrations are felt very easily. It springs back quickly when you apply tension and let it go.

 

Loosen up on the tension so it's more pliable and less excitable. Vibrations are not transmitted as easily and the rubber does not have that springy feel. That's more damp.

 

Now, totally let out all the tension -- the rubber becomes dead and lifeless. That's a K2. At least the ones I have tried in the past. I have heard that the current crop is a bit better in this regards, however.

 

post #10 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoMan View Post




Now, totally let out all the tension -- the rubber becomes dead and lifeless. That's a K2. At least the ones I have tried in the past. I have heard that the current crop is a bit better in this regards, however.



 




 



Mojo, that made me laugh out loud. I tried my buddies Seths once and was not really turned on by them and promptly asked for my Movement Thunders back. That said he loved them and thought my Thunders were ok. So different strokes for different folks.
To the OP, just get out there and ski them like they are the best ski you have ever been on and I am pretty sure you will like them as there is nothing like new gear IMO.biggrin.gif
post #11 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
To the OP, just get out there and ski them like they are the best ski you have ever been on and I am pretty sure you will like them as there is nothing like new gear IMO.biggrin.gif


you're right. i am sure i will love whateva...

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