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How can Edge Change be delayed after Release?

post #1 of 9
Thread Starter 

I've recently come across the following advice in my reading about race technique:

 

1.  Release just after fall line;

2.  then proceed on as straight and as steep a line as possible (still on the old edges) to the rise line;

3.  do not float along on flat skis between the two gates as this is slow;

4.  at rise line change edges for new turn.

 

In this scenario it sounds to me like the edge change is delayed for a bit after the release.  I gather that between the old gate and the rise line of the new gate, the torso/hips are moving rapidly across the skis as the skis continue pretty much on their old path, but with a reduced curvature to their line.  By the rise line the hips & torso are way inside the new turn.  Then the skis flip to new edges and carve out and around fast to catch up with the torso at/below the gate.

 

Have I read/remembered this right?  

 

I'm no World Cupper.  When I try to separate edge change from release it just doesn't happen.  If I've understood this correctly as a useful thing to work on, are there some drills or words of wisdom that might help me out as I struggle with making it happen?

 

post #2 of 9

Keep it simple, LF.  Don't over think yourself into a state of confusion.

 

Fast times in racing are about how clean (carving) you can be on your edges, and how straight a line you can take while still being clean.  Straighter lines require sharper turns, so obviously include longer straight'ish periods to connect those condensed turns.  Maintaing a bit of edge as you go through those straight'ish periods between turns allows you to hold position on the hill.  

 

It's not really something that needs a lot of skier focus, because when you begin skiing a straighter line you'll automatically do it (maintain a bit of edge until it's time for the next transition).  

 

The more important thing to focus on is the timing of the initiation of the new turn.  Too late, and you sail off line.  Too early and you end up skidding into a double turn.  If you don't know what a double turn is, ask.

post #3 of 9
Thread Starter 

So what constitutes the initiation of the new turn?  The release?  Or the edge change?  This is a real question, born of confusion, and perhaps too much reading about skiing while waiting for the opportunity to actually go out and ski.  

 

 

post #4 of 9

The new turn begins (initiates) when the new edges (downhill edges) are engaged.  The moment engagement begins, so too does the new turn.  

 

Release begins well before initiation, and occurs progressively, from max edge angle during the prior turn, to flat during the transition.  As long as the racer is still on any degree of edge, full release has not yet occured, and they are still turning to some degree.  


Edited by Rick - 12/31/10 at 3:52pm
post #5 of 9

I dont know why some say that you have to wait until the rise line to start your turn. I think that is flat out wrong. You should be on your new edges and carving towards the gate way before the rise line. Also, its IMO wrong to say that you release your outside ski at or shortly after apex. It depends. You need to hold on to the turn as long as you need in order to make it to the next gate. Riding a flat ski is not necessarily slower. It depends. A straighter line is faster but you have to look at the big pickture. In GS you need to go further away from the gate. In SL you need to go as close as you can. What both have in common and where the big differences in ski racing start showing is in how well you estimate your line. That comes from practise. You need to commit to the turn and go inside the turn with your upper body while your skis are carving and you are not at the rise line jet. This is the huge difference between skiing on a race course or if you are caring on a groomer outside the gates. The gate dictate your turns not the radius of your ski. The challange is taking that great carving outside the gates into the race course and ski exactly the same.

post #6 of 9

Good post, tdk6.  Couldn't agree more about the old "start turn at rise line" advice.  As you say, you need to roll on edge and establish a platform well before that.

 

Here Ted does it between images 2 and 3.  The rise line is between images 4 and 5.

 

 

Ligety,Montage,Web.jpg

(photo courtesy of www.YourSkiCoach.com

post #7 of 9

LQ,

It's pretty easy to fall into the trap of thinking of the edge release and the edge change as a single event. That's not true. The release occurs when the skis lose edge purchase, the edge change occurs when the skis roll off one set of edges, through a flat phase and onto the next set of edges. So to understand how to delay the edge change all we need to do is look at sideslips. They include a release but not an edge change. The steeper the slope, the further from flat the skis will be when the release occurs during that maneuver. So the answer to your question is actually quite simple. Add time between the release and the edge change.

post #8 of 9



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick View Post

Good post, tdk6.  Couldn't agree more about the old "start turn at rise line" advice.  As you say, you need to roll on edge and establish a platform well before that.

 

Here Ted does it between images 2 and 3.  The rise line is between images 4 and 5.

 

 

Ligety,Montage,Web.jpg

(photo courtesy of www.YourSkiCoach.com


Exactly, and the release is also not very close to the gate or apex.
 

post #9 of 9

I don't agree with the statement in the OP that a flat ski is a slower ski. It is only a slower ski if the gliding ski isn't going to take you where you want to be. As any DHer knows the flat ski is the fastest on the snow. The key to speed in any course is to use your edges as little as possible and with only the pressure that is required to hold the edge for the turn; more and you are creating more friction, turning fores and grip than necessary, less and you are not turning enough and might loose your edge grip before you wish to. Sometimes you sacrifice having your skis on edge so that you may be prepared for what is coming. It is a trade off between least friction (no edge) and having your edges ready to engage (some edge).

 

Delaying edge change after release is usually not desireable in SL and GS. In the speed events it often is. In the former you usually need to start preparing the skis for the next turn as soon as you have sufficient direction change to make the line you desire for the next turn. For the commitment to the new turn that TDK refers to, you have to be on your new edges. It is pretty near impossible to be on your old edges and move your body inside the new turn; that maneuver usually results in 'high siding'.

 

In SG and DH there are frequently times when you want to release from the old turn, ride a flat ski, then change to the new edges for the next turn. The key is to make sure that your momentum will take you to the place you want while you are on a flat ski. On a flat ski, gravity and momentum are the only things affecting your course.

 

Waiting to change edges until the rise line puts a huge premium on changing edges at exactly the right split second. Getting on the new edges before the rise line, as illustrated in Rick's montage (very nice, BTW), is very effective. If you have to stivot or skid or smear the top of your turn, you are on the right edges to do so. If you need to pressure your edges earlier than anticipated, you are in the right place to do so. Just don't use those new edges any more than you have to at any point in the turn.


Edited by MastersRacer - 12/31/10 at 5:28pm
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