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Fat Skis Really Carvers? - Page 5

post #121 of 134

Here is a link to a guy who claims to have the "inside" fat ski carve technique figured out:http://www.hendryxskis.se/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=63&Itemid=56  


Some day I might even try it out.  I do believe this is what sam clarkson is talking about...

Edited by quant2325 - 1/7/11 at 6:37pm
post #122 of 134

I didnt read the whole article but I think I know what hes talking about.


As ive been making the transition from only race skis for years to my stockli stormrider DP I have noticed I need to be more aware of angulating the inside ski, pretty much I have a tendency to A frame with the fatter skis. (think I cant see myself and havent skied with anyone good for them to tell me)


Something that can help with this is to "pull back" the inside ski so it doesnt lead as far ahead as the other.  This allows you to have both equally banked, and then to get the pinky toe pressure on the inside ski (which i think he mentioned when i skimmed it).  Of course this is not really any different than traditional carving, but I personally need to remind myself to do it more on the fatties.


Again, I didnt take the time to read the whole thing, but I think hes making it out to be more of a change in technique than it really may be.


Ill check back to this thread when i get a day to open up my new (used) blizzard titan argos IQ 180 cm.  At over 100mm underfoot it will take me some getting used to, and ill pay specific attention to what I notice I need to do differently.

post #123 of 134

Yes, A-framing is very much along the same line of thought. Instead of starting a right turn by moving your left knee right... do it by moving your right knee right. If anything I find the toe thing works best on trail ....and the knee thing best in the deep stuff.

@ bushwacker  No I don't balance on the inside ski, I DO initiate with it though. It seems to help me to (mostly) ignore the outside ski and concentrate on the inside...the outside ski seems to sort it's act out naturally anyway!

You can visualise it by holding your hands up, now lower your little finger, see how the side of your hand rolls down, now try that with your little toe.

Have fun!

post #124 of 134

Cross under v cross over?

post #125 of 134

I just purchased the Rossi Phantom 97 SC's and I've skied with them the last two days in SLC.  I'm been worried since I purchased them a few weeks ago that they wouldn't be good on the groomers or in the moguls, but they are performing just fine,  even better than the old Rossi Bandits which I finally laid to rest. 


Yesterday i gave them a good try out on the moguls which are building up here at Snowbird and the increased width seems to help with my stability, like I'm not worried as much about getting caught in the troughs. And I am having absolutely no problem getting them to edge on the groomers. No doubt they are going to make me a better skier.


And even though they are much bigger skis than my Bandits, they only weight 1 lb more, which I appreciate for traveling. 

post #126 of 134

What the last couple of posters are speaking of is the technique(s) used in POW skiing; equal pressure, a real parallel stance, and like powder skiing, more use of your hands for correct or balanced body position. I would add that body rotation, or pre-rotation is part of the package as well, that is what will keep you over both skis.


Your individual height comes to play as well. Being tall requires me to use more upper-body rotation than someone who is 5'8", something I picked up during my racing days. Also, from the old -school, high-handed pole plants in powder, helps generate more angulation.


Certain skis react better to the uphill edging style than others, and of course snow conditions will dictate how much of these ideas you can use at any given moment.

Don't over think it, cause one rule still applies, " Skiing is a series of linked recoveries!"


post #127 of 134
Originally Posted by snokat View Post

Certain skis react better to the uphill edging style than others


Which in my case includes my S7's (@117mm) and my Elan SLX race slaloms (@ 64mm) and every other ski that I happen to ride on. Which, as the owner of a rental fleet of 350 odd pairs, is quite a bunch!

Seriously, this technique is transformational.

post #128 of 134

No problems with the technique. (although I do wonder how you can bank the inside ski more than the outside ski while still keeping legs parallel).  However the skiing described and demonstrated is not on hard pack.  Hard pack will only allow a couple of mm of your ski to penetrate.


When I get ankle pain, it is on the lateral maleus, e.g. left side of my left ankle when turning left (inside ankle, side of ankle nearest the snow).  This has happened occasionally near the end of a day of carving near-boot out level turns on 66 mm waisted skis.  Maybe I could use a little more bootwork; maybe I'm just getting old. th_dunno-1[1].gif.

post #129 of 134

that sounds like a bootwork issue, Ghost.

post #130 of 134

My 2 cents: Me; Skiing for only 6 years now, started late (47) Eastern frontside aggressive intermediate, will never be 'advanced/expert' but can chase anyone down a diamond at speed as long as it's groomed :). I consider myself in the average everyman/woman category, where, like my golf game, the best skis will not make me a better skier, nor will Ping clubs make me a better golfer. Having said that.....the original question as everyone has pointed out was do the wider ones compare. Of course they do. They just don't compare as well. My old Dynastar Skicross 9's at 69mm were great carvers. But my current Elan 82 XTI's can carve the eastern hardpack as well, just not as quick. But I'm much more comfortable on them overall. I think if all I wanted to do was quick carving at Whiteface I'd go back to my previous skis, Elan Mag 12's (76mm), not all the way back to the Ski/9's. But again, that's just my opinion. If you can ski decently (I know, means different things to different people) there is no reason you can't carve an 82 and have a blast doing it. Wishing everyone a great ski season and although I'm not on this forum much anymore I can't tell you how much I enjoy it and how informational it is, so thanks to all. And special shout out to Dawg/Scott, who sold me those 1st pair of Elan/12's a while back, what he told me about them was spot on.

post #131 of 134

After having raced for the past 8 years, I just got a pair of Nordica Enforcers (last years' model, 99mm waist, 177cm, 19M, sandwich construction).  I mostly ski in NH/VT/ME but wanted something that would do better in variable snow conditions and that I could take out West with me.


They carve shockingly well.


Are they as responsive as my Rossi World Cup SL/GS?  No.  Do I feel as confident laying them over on a steep, icy pitch?  No.  There is a bit of vagueness underfoot during the edge to edge transition.


But on hard surfaces, I can carve aggressive, high-speed arcs with confidence.  I took them to Loon in late December with my SLs in the car just in case I wanted something more groomer-centric.  Even though it was a hard pack day (albeit pretty grippy snow on most parts of the mountain), I had so much fun on the Enforcers that I left the SLs in the car.  I feel like my racing background lends me enough credibility to say "yes, these absolutely carve".


If you're a dedicated, groomer/frontside-only skier, then I'd say stick to a narrow waist.  But the modern reality is that some 80+ mm waist skis that are built with a fairly robust construction can definitely ski groomers very well, and give you more versatility across snow conditions.  After all those years of skiing 60-something waist race stock skis, I figured I'd get something in the low-80mm width range for my all-mountain purchase and ended up on skis near 100mm!

post #132 of 134

Gotta say that I'm confused about novelty of Clarkson's ( admittedly solid sounding ) technique; first was taught about inside little toe maybe a decade ago, and concentrating on the inside ski to lead the turn roughly same time. This is carving 101 after you figure out ankle rolls and pedaling, before racing turns, no?  th_dunno-1[1].gif


Will agree that it works well for fatties, but again thought everyone knew that...

post #133 of 134

I agree.

post #134 of 134

Sounds like a phantom move without the tail lift.

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