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Terrible tragedy in Wyoming

post #1 of 207
Thread Starter 

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post #2 of 207
Thread Starter 

There are few details in the article, but these things should never happen. Imagine the involved families carrying the memory of this horrific loss every Christmas for the rest of their lives. It would be unbearable.

post #3 of 207

Sounds awful.  I hope there is not absolute stupidity involved, but I can't help but think somebody either stopped in the wrong place or excessive speed.

post #4 of 207

When a small child and a grown adult both both die in a collision and a third adult is severely injured as well, I would say excessive speed was obviously involved.

 

My condolences to the family of the child and the other party involved. I have to say, however, that it is hard to feel any empathy for the individual who was reckless.

 

I have already been taken out twice this year by people straight-lining a run like a frieght train. People need to get it into their head that when you go skiing, you are not on an amusement park ride. If you want to bomb the hill, take it to a closed race course or an open bowl.

post #5 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoMan View Post
People need to get it into their head that when you go skiing, you are not on an amusement park ride. If you want to bomb the hill, take it to a closed race course or an open bowl.


icon14.gif +1

post #6 of 207

This is very sad.  My condolences to EVERYONE involved in this terrible accident.  It upsets me to hear about accidents such as this in a sport I love so much. 

 

Both skiers and snowboarders. please slow down and stay in control. 

 

post #7 of 207

more info in the local newspaper story

Authorities said the snowboarder was going down a black-diamond run called Dreadnaught when he struck the mother and daughter, who had stopped.

...The child was 5 years old.....None of the three involved were wearing helmets.

 

There is no indication that helmets might have prevented these deaths. There is not enough information available at this time to determine the contributing factors.

 

Just because someone is going fast or in a straight line does not make them unsafe. However, skiing/riding that creates situations where skiers/riders are unable to avoid collisions is behavior that needs to be modified before a tragedy occurs. Most of the folks on Epic are safe skiers. Although it is difficult and not advisable to confront unsafe skiers or riders on the slopes, my recommendation is, if it is possible, to report such individuals to a lifty after the offender has boarded a chair. They can alert patrol with a description of the skier and a chair number.

 

This is sad news for the snow sport community that we would rather prevent than read about. Best wishes to the families involved.

post #8 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpikeDog View Post

Sounds awful.  I hope there is not absolute stupidity involved, but I can't help but think somebody either stopped in the wrong place or excessive speed.


While I have empathy for all involved, it seems quite clear to me when someone is STOPPED, as in not a moving, and the boarder cannot avoid hitting them by accident, skiing/boarding out of control is involved.  mad.gif  

post #9 of 207

My sincerest condolonces to all those involved.

post #10 of 207

Obviously there are many questions here.  We may never know the answers.  Worse, the families of each party may never know the answers.  On Christmas Eve no less.  Condolences to the families and loved ones.

post #11 of 207

Not necessarily.  This is a terrible tragedy, and while there are no hard facts, it's reasonable to think a fairly high-energy collision was involved. 

 

But, collisions are a part of skiing or riding on public slopes.

 

At least one poster so far in this thread has been involved in a collision with serious energy (and injury) that easily could have been worse with just a few body parts differently aligned, and numerous other forum members have been involved in collisions and high-energy near-misses.  That doesn't mean that any of those posters were reckless, though some forum posters do make a point of noting the high speeds at which they ski, or in the past skied, on public slopes. 

 

Any accident involving loss of life is awful, this one all the more so.  Condolences to to all the families and communities affected. 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by SpikeDog View Post

Sounds awful.  I hope there is not absolute stupidity involved, but I can't help but think somebody either stopped in the wrong place or excessive speed.


While I have empathy for all involved, it seems quite clear to me when someone is STOPPED, as in not a moving, and the boarder cannot avoid hitting them by accident, skiing/boarding out of control is involved.  mad.gif  

post #12 of 207

reminds me of motorcycles poaching the hiking and biking trails. no, they don't have to be a menace, but they chose to be, and consequently are.

maybe the lawsuit from this will cause more resort attorneys to look at snow boarding as an intrinsically dangerous activity because an emergency maneuver is so difficult, if not impossible (for intermediate and advanced), to accomplish. I would say good riddance!

 

condolences to the skiers families and friends. so sad frown.gif

post #13 of 207

I can handle the ..it's a 'part of skiing' to a point. 

 

The only good that comes out of these incidents is it may get people to pause for a moment and reflect on safety. The hardcore crowd will always jump in at this point and simply poo-poo the subject with the hardcore refrain that if you are worried about such things you might as well stay home and not ski.  That's totally rad and all but those of us who do think safety is something to be taken seriously, it is something to consider.

 

I am afraid we are going to be reading more stories similar to this one. I don't know about anyone else here but over the past few seasons I am seeing more and more skiers riding on-piste in a manner that I would label as very unsafe. I do believe it is equipment related. As relatively inexperienced skiers dump their 68mm groomer skis in favor of the ever-wider all-mountain skis in the 80-90mm range, they are being presented with a wider platform to balance on and this is giving them a false sense of security. Armed with these new designs, it becomes easier for the inexperienced to balance on the ski and bomb the hill. The problem is,  these skiers are now more inclined to take these boards on terrain that is way over their head. They will straight-line a run they would never attempt on their slimmer boards. They still have difficulty turning and the wider platform only makes it even more difficult to turn quickly when needed.

 

I am seeing this effect first-hand. My nephew just got a pair of line prophet 100's, up from a pair of 68mm RX6. He skis groomers exclusively and has three seasons of experience and probably two lessons in total. I told him the skis were not a good fit to begin with. He just knows he can now take the new toys onto terrain that is way over his head and simply straight run it from top to bottom without having to worry about catching an edge. He still can't turn for squat when it matters and the speed hides all flaws. He doesn't get it. Like most inexperienced skiers on these new wide boards, he doesn't want to get it. He just knows that he can now ski fast in a straight line with relative ease.

post #14 of 207

It is so sad to learn that two people died while enjoying skiing/snowboarding.  Our condolences to the families.  May we all learn something from this tragedy. 

post #15 of 207


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoMan View Post

I can handle the ..it's a 'part of skiing' to a point. 

 

The only good that comes out of these incidents is it may get people to pause for a moment and reflect on safety. The hardcore crowd will always jump in at this point and simply poo-poo the subject with the hardcore refrain that if you are worried about such things you might as well stay home and not ski.  That's totally rad and all but those of us who do think safety is something to be taken seriously, it is something to consider.

 

I am afraid we are going to be reading more stories similar to this one. I don't know about anyone else here but over the past few seasons I am seeing more and more skiers riding on-piste in a manner that I would label as very unsafe. I do believe it is equipment related. As relatively inexperienced skiers dump their 68mm groomer skis in favor of the ever-wider all-mountain skis in the 80-90mm range, they are being presented with a wider platform to balance on and this is giving them a false sense of security. Armed with these new designs, it becomes easier for the inexperienced to balance on the ski and bomb the hill. The problem is,  these skiers are now more inclined to take these boards on terrain that is way over their head. They will straight-line a run they would never attempt on their slimmer boards. They still have difficulty turning and the wider platform only makes it even more difficult to turn quickly when needed.

 

I am seeing this effect first-hand. My nephew just got a pair of line prophet 100's, up from a pair of 68mm RX6. He skis groomers exclusively and has three seasons of experience and probably two lessons in total. I told him the skis were not a good fit to begin with. He just knows he can now take the new toys onto terrain that is way over his head and simply straight run it from top to bottom without having to worry about catching an edge. He still can't turn for squat when it matters and the speed hides all flaws. He doesn't get it. Like most inexperienced skiers on these new wide boards, he doesn't want to get it. He just knows that he can now ski fast in a straight line with relative ease.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


mostly I see teens going fast. I see their line through traffic on a connecting groomer and it is totally dependent on no one making an unpredictable turn. they are totally beyond being able to stop or swerve, even if they had extraordinary skills, which mostly they don't. the thing is they want to stand out, go against the traffic flow, be outrageous. I can hear them as they ski: "passed him; faster than that dude; came pretty close there, ha; wow, I'm blowing everyone away; hey, do you see ME!" and so on.

 

Puts too much pressure on patrol to do what they like least to do, but they are going to have to start making examples of these people. pull the pass. suspend for at least a month, and if the violator gets a pass from someone and beats the suspension, ban them for life. they love to talk. when they talk about getting banned, the word will spread.

post #16 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

maybe the lawsuit from this will cause more resort attorneys to look at snow boarding as an intrinsically dangerous activity because an emergency maneuver is so difficult, if not impossible (for intermediate and advanced), to accomplish. I would say good riddance!

 


As an advanced skier and rider and someone who teaches both skiing and riding, I say this statement is simple nonsense. First, 99% of snow safety comes from not putting oneself into situations where an emergency maneuver is required. Second, in my personal experience, an emergency maneuver is no more difficult on one plank than two. If you would like to be rid of snowboarders, please enjoy Deer Valley, Alta and Mad River Glen.

post #17 of 207


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRusty View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

maybe the lawsuit from this will cause more resort attorneys to look at snow boarding as an intrinsically dangerous activity because an emergency maneuver is so difficult, if not impossible (for intermediate and advanced), to accomplish. I would say good riddance!

 


As an advanced skier and rider and someone who teaches both skiing and riding, I say this statement is simple nonsense. First, 99% of snow safety comes from not putting oneself into situations where an emergency maneuver is required. Second, in my personal experience, an emergency maneuver is no more difficult on one plank than two. If you would like to be rid of snowboarders, please enjoy Deer Valley, Alta and Mad River Glen.


that's utter ignorant drivel. you CAN NOT make a sudden turn or stop (emergency avoidance maneuvers) on a snowboard as quickly as on skis, especially in difficult conditions or terrain. come out and we'll stop for pink slips. your statement is completely false. clearly the boarder in this situation was way, way  past not putting himself into a situation.

 

a poser from maryland who skis a few days a year is going to banish me to Deer Valley. what a joke.

post #18 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

 

a poser from maryland who skis a few days a year is going to banish me to Deer Valley. what a joke.


Whoa there pardner.  Whether you're right or not about the emergency maneuver ability, TheRusty is no poser, he's a full cert, a trainer and a dedicated professional.

 

otoh, my problem with snowboards is the blindside issue, riding looking over your shoulder seems to me to put your vision, peripherally at the very least in a compromised state.

post #19 of 207

certification doesn't mean someone knows what they are writing. doesn't account for where they get this stuff. actually doesn't mean a whole lot outside that context. I'll take the discussion on the merits of word on the page, and I have to say the meter is on high.BSmeter.gif

 


Edited by davluri - 12/28/10 at 10:08pm
post #20 of 207


He does own snow blades.

rolleyes.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

 

a poser from maryland who skis a few days a year is going to banish me to Deer Valley. what a joke.


Whoa there pardner.  Whether you're right or not about the emergency maneuver ability, TheRusty is no poser, he's a full cert, a trainer and a dedicated professional.

 

otoh, my problem with snowboards is the blindside issue, riding looking over your shoulder seems to me to put your vision, peripherally at the very least in a compromised state.

post #21 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

certification doesn't mean someone knows what they are writing. doesn't account for where they get this stuff. actually doesn't mean a whole lot outside that context. I'll take the discussion on the merits of word on the page, and I have to say the meter is on high.BSmeter.gif

 

how funny. here are the injured and the pass blocked out trying to fill the day without skiing. . we'll have to keep it light and fun. It's all we have.aaaack eek.gif

 

 

I'd say however that his credentials does rule out him being a "poser." 

 

Take the discussion on the merits of the word and leave out the personal attacks is what I say.  

 

And yeah, a foot of snow coming and I don't know if I'll be able to try out my new S3's in it - but my injury is healing faster then I'd expected - so......maybe.....

 

 

 

post #22 of 207

Rusty's certification and his many very excellent posts here have me convinced that he does know alot about skiing and snowboarding. Davluri is obviously not a skilled  snowboarder. To suggest a snowboarder can not make an emergency maneuver as well as a skier is just plain wrong.

 

P.S. I think he may be confusing Rusty with me. I'm the poser from Maryland who only skis a few times a year. Rusty's hill requires of it's instructors a commitment of at least two and a half days a week. I imagine he skis more often than that.


Edited by telerod15 - 12/26/10 at 2:15pm
post #23 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRusty View Post

more info in the local newspaper story

Authorities said the snowboarder was going down a black-diamond run called Dreadnaught when he struck the mother and daughter, who had stopped.

...The child was 5 years old....


This raises a small red flag with me.  The article did say that all involved were from the Casper area, but while I have seen 5 year olds on black diamond terrain they are a rare breed.  I'd be interested to know how well all the parities involved knew the ski area.

 

Any collision with significant force or blunt trauma type injuries could easily  kill a young child, but unless the boarder was really hauling along and tried to avoid the pair and couldn't, or in the course of trying to avoid the pair at a slower speed (seeing them at the last second) and loosing balance and colliding with some fixed object or other such injury could be factors.

 

No matter what the cause, it's unfortunate and my condolences go out to the families of all involved.

post #24 of 207

Just found the trailmap http://www.casperwy.gov/Portals/0/images/HogadonTrailMap-Lge.jpg  it's a pretty small area with a total vertical drop of 600 feet and Dreadnaught (the trail it happened on) has no intersecting green trails, in fact the only blue that intersects it on the map is accessible only from black diamonds.

 

Such a sad story.

post #25 of 207

I'm flattered, but again I think the poser snowblader from Maryland is being confused with the dedicated ski/snowboard professional from Maryland. 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by karpiel View Post


He does own snow blades.

rolleyes.gif

post #26 of 207

A child is probably less likely to be murdered by an idiot snowboarder on a blue trail than a black one, but it could happen anywhere, I guess.

post #27 of 207

It is very sad.

 

Davluri, I don't know why this is a boarder vs skier issue. As I mentioned, I have already been clocked twice this year and both times the culripts were skiers straight-running icey blue groomers on fatties. For reasons already noted, I believe this type of inexperienced skier and gear combo is becoming a growing hazzard, like the tool in this video who thinks a Slow sign is just a suggestion.

 

post #28 of 207

Scary video MojoMan,  I've seen people pass me like that, but to see it POV really makes it hit home.  Doesn't have to be fat skis for this type of behavior though, just someone with no fear.  It's easy to do this on most skis, except maybe short SL skis.

 

Definitely see more skiers do this then snowboarders honestly.

post #29 of 207

He didn't seem to be going that fast, actually.  From the silhouette of the shadow, he didn't look like much of a skier.

post #30 of 207

I think everyone has drifted off subject.

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