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Full Tilt/ Modern Ski Technique

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 

Hi Everyone


First post to the forum and happy to be here! Happy Holidays.....I am 5 ft 7, stocky build 190, on the athletic side....I am solid intermediate skiing for over 25 years (now 46) wanting to finally get serious and take some lessons...In my infinite wisdom (or definately lack of), I went out looking at boots and jumped into a purchase of the Das Booter with a 4 flex thinking I loved the light weight and intuition liners. Of course after talking to some folks it seems these books tend to satisfy the traditional skiier vs the modern technique. Frankly my technique still kind of sucks but I am wanting to push to the modern to get the most of the newest skiies. I am on K2 Apache Recons 2009 and they too me seem too damp as I cant really feel any energy off the ski. I went from Fischers AM 73c which I LOVED since I was able to turn this very quickly which is part of the traditional technique I still employ. So the question is will these boots work on the modern style, and I am considering dumping the K2s and moving back into a Fischer Progressor, Dynastar 4 by 4 Contact or perhaps a Nordica Fire Arrow 80...Any thought on the boot combo, with new lessons and jumping into one of these skiies? I am sure that you should probbly just foscus on moving into new boots or skis but not both...Also if anyone is interesting the picture is a friend of mine Commander Cody aka George Frayne who was famous for Hot Rod Lincoln...perfect ski song :)...Any help here would be great and look forward to further thoughts on the forum! Best Charlie

post #2 of 14

If you ski mostly on groomed trails and rarely go into deep powder, moguls, or serious jumps, halfpipe, etc, I'd recommend the lowest level adult "cheater" race ski available.  Being large and strong, a stiff ski would be helpful and if you want to learn modern technique, focusing on the groomers is probably best.  Note I'm NOT recommending a legit race ski due to your ability level, but something like a Nordica Doberman SL Pro 170cm, a Fischer CR4 Super race SC Power rail 170cm, or an Atomic D2 Race SL 170cm (non-FIS).  They will require an adjustment period, but will give plenty of room to improve and learn to really ski well without being too difficult to learn on. Also reading a book like Ulitimate Skiing by Ron LeMaster and working on some of the things in that book and then after a while a lesson on carving would be very helpful.  I can't say much about boots over the internet, but an instructor could give advice.  You most likely could ski a world better if you got not the fit per say improved, but the ALGINMENT of the boot for your personal biomechanics.

post #3 of 14
Thread Starter 

Thank you very much....I am on the East coast skiier BTW actually using a mid week value pass at Hunter to get my daily ski fix at the moment... I will check out the Ultimate Skiing book too as I am sure I will be helpful....I am also heading to Stowe the week after New Year to take 2 days to demo some skis and will include these suggestions. I have a meeting with a boot fitter up there on recommendation and will take your advise on addressing the alignment issue for sure.....Finally I am also heading to Alta /Snowbird too in middle of January too.....I have a pair of Head Monster 95 OBs 171 cm that I purchased for 200 bucks (was 1100 new) super lite 95 mm waist ....I have been playing with them on the East Coast and interesting enough they seemed pretty responsive with energy and held up well on grommed hardpacked snow...Its a ski that really not too many people reviewed since its mainly backcountry/out of bounds ski.....If anyone has some experience suing this ski in Snowbird/Alta please let me know......It will not stop me though searching for that ski quiver to satisfy the addiction and hopefully ease up on my wallet since I will need a 2nd mortgage continuing at this ski pass on equipment and trips....but wtf!

post #4 of 14

Not sure if this thread is directed toward boot choices or ski choices or something else (??) but I'll give you some insight on both.




The FT is for sure an older design however it can work well enough for most skiers assuming the fit is correct. IMO, there are better choices but nevertheless I wouldn't worry too much about boot models as most skiers technique is not developed enough such that boot design will affect their skiing. The boot does have to fit and be the correct shape for the foot, but other than that.....no big deal.




While large quivers are fun, they are not really necessary. One pair can suit the non gear head adequately from east to west assuming you select properly and understand that every choice you make about gear is a compromise at something. If you do decide to have 2 or 3 (or more) pairs of skis, you will be able to cover the spread of conditions more completely. If you are going to have say two pairs, the best way to assure good coverage of conditions is to buy two skis at the same time so that you can select skis that complement each other.


Here is what I mean...................think of ski choices in general width terms (narrow, medium, wide)


  1. The narrow ski would be the eastern ski. Best at firm snow conditions.
  2. Medium covers the broad spectrum without excelling at any.
  3. Wide covers the commonly softer western conditions and the occasional eastern storm.


Naturally, the ideal is one of each but If you are going to have one, it is usually #2. What model etc. is a little dependent upon location but an eastie might choose differently than a western guy. If you are going to have two, then I'd usually recommend (#1 and #3) for an eastie and (#2 and #3) for the western guy.


The skis that you have listed so far are Progressor and Contact 4X4 (both #1 with a hard snow bias) and Firearrow 80 (a wide #1 with a slight bias toward hard snow)


I don't know if this is of any help but then......I'm not sure what you are looking for



post #5 of 14

if the FT fits it can work better then a classic/4 buckle boot, that doesn't fit well.


some of the top ski instructors in my area use the FT for cold days, and low end demos, but feel it lacks some performance for VERY high end skills.   If you dont have that skill level you might not feel what they feel.

post #6 of 14

most off trail skiers see a cabrio design boot like the full tilt as the best out there for our brand of skiing. with that said my GS skis feel like they fold them in half and their are full sure better choices for. the biggest thing that a cabrio design boots lets you do very well is use ankle flex to adjust balance.




Hey BTW if you happen to take lessons at stowe. Pm me so you dont get just some random guy.

post #7 of 14

The #4 flex will fold up with your weight. You could use at least a #6, probably #8. Here's the parts store.

post #8 of 14
Thread Starter 

Many thanks and appreciate the patience in being abit all of over the place in trying to express what I was searching for. It was my first post and realize it should have been broken up a bit.  Indeed the boot issue going with FTs was a concern but I am not planning to CG at high speeds as that is not my thing.......So perhaps the boots will be a good fit as you can also change the flex in these boots which is a nice feature as well. I do enjoy the snug fit that seems to be easy on the shins as well from the 7 times out this year. On the skis side, I simply was a ski that I can grow into and be a carver more than any other option at this point. Appreciate the feedback SJ too in this regard....I agree that the #1 and #3 approach will be enough for me. The trick is finding the right #1 narrow now and much has to do with spending enough time on as many conditions as possible and thinking Stowe would be a good choice given they have a ton of local shops and bootfitters too if I was to need an alignment on the boot side as well. The #3 is something that is not really necessary since I was comfortable on the Head Monster 95 OBs although I have not hit the right conditions for them just yet. Thanks too Josh as I will be in Stowe primarily for a quick biz trip coupled with a few days to test out some skiis. I will be taking the lessons closer to home probably near Hunter in NY since its close enough to hitting them regularly if need be this year. Question remains if I can find the right instructor of course...Thanks again for the great help

post #9 of 14
Thread Starter 

Hi Mr Crab and yes I already have asked the hop where I bought them to see if they can get me a 6 flex and now perhaps the 8...he mentioned he may have some extra tongues from them boot sales rep...I am thinking the same thing after being on these and just getting used to them....

post #10 of 14

He'll fix you up. And don't worry too much about performance. If the fit is right, and these fit hard to fit people, you should be fine. A whole bunch of elite skiers skied these for years. Kim Reichelm, Plake- there's a long list. The entire Chinese Olympic Freestyle team was lined up getting Full Tilts of couple years ago at Cole Sports here in Park City. That was a real scene-  men and women- really boys and girls- thirty or forty of them, all in matching red outfits. 

post #11 of 14

While the "right" instructor may not be a magic bullet.....it certainly can help......sometimes a lot. The key (IMO) is to find someone that can tune into your goals and be willing and able to set forth a long(ish) term teaching plan for you. What I mean is that say your goal is to ski condition (X) at level (~~8). The way to get you there is not to start you at that condition and level but rather it is to start you below the level you want, build your foundation and then take to you to the promised land. A good instructor will get that and will build a progressive training plan for you to get to goal over (say) 2-3 private lessons.


On skis...............a good #1 will certainly be your first goal. Our special Blizzard deal could get you a #1 and a #3 for about + $200 over a single ski. That's just food for though though, the training is your first step.



post #12 of 14

On FT boots. If you have a Narrower or normal size foot to a little wider they are with out Q one of ther best boots on the planet used buy some of the best skiiers on the planet today. If your foot is really wide the same concept in boots and also used buy some of the best skiiers on the planet is  Dalbello . I use a #8 tougne with Dobermans and Nordica Jetfuels. Both skis are like race skis. Very stiff and demanding. Well the Dobermans are anyway. Im 6ft very high level skiier and 230lbs all in the right places.smile.gif I ski in -30 some times and my feet are tosty warm in the FT. My son has the Hot Dogger with JJ,s and used the #4 tounge for backflips off 30fters 360,s and all that stuff he,s 16,6ft 200. athletic. Most of the US and Can Olympic free style team wears Full Tilts.  For skis like you like the #8 flex would be best I feel. For buttering jumps and tricks the softer flex is required. Both boots mentioned do the same thing. Tanner Hall wears the Dalbello and Seth Morison wears Full Tilt. The boots are all the same just the toungs can be snaped out and replaced with a sutable flex for the task. Very good Stuff. Those two skiiers are hucking 200ft+ cliffs in those boots and can out ski pretty much anyone anywear any time. So the boots you have should work great!!! I know mine do. Best boots Ive ever owned in 30+ years of skiing hands down. You do however need to have a boot fitter familiar with those boots fit them properly for you. That will make a Hudge differance in your game. My boots are the Konflict.

post #13 of 14
Thread Starter 

Thanks SJ...Indeed I have the time now to get into the proper ski condition....I have kept in shape and think I am ready physically too so that's not this issue....The most training I have had is with some really solid skiiers but most compes from simply watching and learning ..... Once again skiing the traditional style for alot of years primarily at Killington on the blacks and blues on and off piste albeit taking it easy in the trees.....turning quickly has never been a problem but want to get better in steeps and the moguls and certainly on powder too. I will too go backwards to go forward as it makes sense....probably need to break a lot of hold of old habits though.....tell me more about the special Blizzard deal too...which 1 and 3 are you referring and which link? Thanks alot. Whipper, I am glad to hear that the FTs work for you...After the first day these boots were tough getting used too but I brought them back to the fitter who pressed them in certain areas and they were like night and day on the 2nd day...Now after about 8 days in them, they are feeling pretty good....I was coming from head edge 10.0 intermediate boots which I liked but seemed simply on the heavy side and still not tremendously stiff when you would open it up abit....And yes moving to the 8 or 10 I think will be fine....Thanks again everyone for the help

post #14 of 14

The skis I was thinking of from our Blizzard "storm" are the Mag 8.1 as your daily driver and the "One" or Answer as your #3. The One has good utility in many conditions although it is best in soft snow conditions. The Answer would get use on big days and would certainly be better when the snow got deeper than ~~12". See Phil's thread in the deals for supporters forum for more info on the Blizzard "almost two-fer".



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