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Looking for new powder skis for a light skier

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 

I sold my Volkl Kuro 08/09 175s since they only skiied well in light, deep, untracked powder snow and bounced uncontrollably in all other snow conditions.  I'm 5'8" and 140 lbs.  The Kuros are double rockered, stiff, fat, and HEAVY.  My everyday ski is the Mantra 170 which also performs well in the powder, given my weight (I may also replace the Mantras as they are getting old).  Ordinarily 170 is a bit short and I sacrifice some speed, but they are playful and easily maneuverable in tight trees.

 

I previously started a thread, "Should I sell my Volkl Kuros?".  Some replacement recommedations include:

 

try a ski in the width range of 110-120mm with single rise

Something 135-110-125 in about 175 length and a bit of rocker

Katana

ON3P Wrenegade

Vicik

Dynastar Sixth Sense Huge

Watea 114

regular camber 112 is the Dynastar XXL

Line Prophet 115

 

I thought I'd reopen the discussion in case there are other recommendations for powder skis that I should consider.  Thank you!


Edited by woofcyn - 12/26/10 at 9:23am
post #2 of 15

Well, do you want a powder ski or an all mountain rockered ski?  As you are light, and seem to want a mostly powder ski, and like responsiveness, I would actually look at the ON3P Billy Goat, Armada JJ, or similar.

post #3 of 15
Thread Starter 

Thank you.  Judging from the video, Armada JJ looks like it has a large rocker on the front, maybe too much for me.  The Billy Goats look interesting.

 

SierraJim wrote, "try a ski in the width range of 110-120mm with single rise".  Given my problems with the Kuros, his recommendation sounds on-the-money.  I hope he sees this thread and recommends some skis based on this criteria!

post #4 of 15

 

some posters here have a social political bias toward small boutique ski manufacturers.

this has nothing to do with what you are looking for in a ski. especially if this is your first powder ski for a quiver idea.

 

your list above is fine. you could add the Salomon Shogun as a versatile powder ski with a waist that bridges conditions very well.

 

your dimensions at the top of the list are going to produce a pretty long turn radius. from waist to tip around 30mm is pretty versatile. 25mm begins to get into a very straight ski. (minus) 10 mm for the tail is a good formula.

post #5 of 15
Thread Starter 

The Shogun appears very similar to my Volkl Mantra, except that it is rockered.  This may be a good thing; maybe I could replace my old Mantras with the Shogun and use them as my everyday ski.

 

Which ones have a single rise?  I'm not sure whether I need a rockered tail.  Do all the skis weigh roughly the same?  Surprising that manufacturers don't publish the weight.  The weight of the Kuro was also an issue for me.

post #6 of 15

You have a few pretty good suggestions already. Single rise or minimal double rise will probably give you the feel you seek.

 

Salmon Czar (single)

Line P-115 (single)

Blizzard Answer (minimal double)

Dynastar Huge Rocker (minimal double) or

Legend 115 (single)

 

The Shogun is a fine ski and is better at most western conditions than your Mantra. It would make a fine daily driver and it's quite good in powder for a 100mm ski. I don't think of the Shogun as a powder specific tool like some of the wider choices above.

 

SJ

post #7 of 15

One thing to think about is that some of the skis you list initially are pretty heavy. (The XXL is a tank, Huge and Prophet could use a diet, you get the idea.) At your size, if you have the $$, might want to think about a DPS 112RP, or definitely the Wateas, Elan Olympus had gotten great reviews, the PM Bros Lhasa Pows are average weight but ski really light. JJ's also a great idea if you want a more non-traditional shape. 

post #8 of 15

 

Personally, I like the Kuro that you did not. But I am thinking about your reaction. So consider all that when I say: given everything you've said, I'd suggest at least looking at the following in appropriate lengths:

 

Praxis Concept

K2 Obsethed 

Rossi S7 

DPS 112RP

Bent Chetler

Praxis BC (a bit narrower than the rest - but pretty light and an overall match...)

 

I'll also offer up the view that lack of tail rocker in a powder ski is a compromise that should be made for a specific reason. IMO anything claiming to be a general recreational powder ski should have both tip & tail rocker. Camber in the middle optional.

post #9 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

 

some posters here have a social political bias toward small boutique ski manufacturers.

this has nothing to do with what you are looking for in a ski. especially if this is your first powder ski for a quiver idea.

 

your list above is fine. you could add the Salomon Shogun as a versatile powder ski with a waist that bridges conditions very well.

 

your dimensions at the top of the list are going to produce a pretty long turn radius. from waist to tip around 30mm is pretty versatile. 25mm begins to get into a very straight ski. (minus) 10 mm for the tail is a good formula.


It never ceases to amaze me how a small boutique cabinet maker goes out of his way to shit on small boutique ski makers. Especially when you are completely ignorant of what those companies offer in their lineup.

 

OP what I see is that maybe you have run into a similar problem as myself. You probably want your pow ski to handle similar to your daily driver.

 

The Shogun looks good. It's definetely always caught my eye.

 

I have the Vicik as my daily driver, but wouldn't hesitate to use it as a pow ski. In fact I have been grabbing it more and more. The versatility has just blown me away. The early rise creates just enough float, while the flex pattern is dialed perfectly to blast through resort pow crud.

 

 

post #10 of 15

I have studied furniture construction for longer than you (apologists for boutique skis) have been alive. I have the machinery to do precisely what has to be done to make heirloom quality furniture in the authentic process. On the other hand, when I brought up the construction of early K2 skis and the use of wet-wrap fiberglass tortion box construction which was initially lively but broke down very quickly, several boutique ski makers weighed in and clearly had never heard the term yet assumed that all fiberglass skis were made that way. Making skis is not like making a dresser. I think that if you make skis you should be knowledgeable of that process, meaning how it evolved to where it is and the effect and purpose of changes and developments along the way. my furniture and your boutique skis are apples and oranges. I'm not shitting on anything as long as it functions well, has attention to detail, is durable. And I've demoed a lot in the process of coming to my point of bias toward major ski manufacturers and small, knowledgeable companies like Praxis that have clearly done their homework as well as contribute innovations to the industry.

 

example: Moment re-designed (not engineered) the tip of all their models to be different from several standard forms in the industry. when I see a  pair on a skier, usually the inner corner is all chewed up. clearly it's interfering with performance with a bias toward fashion design and brand image. that is inexperience on their part and the performance of the ski, aside from the tip, proves it. Do they really think every major manufacturer overlooked this important innovation? not likely. Volkl and Rossignol were the first to re-engineer the tip of some powder models, longer taper, early rise, dampened, with awesome results, eventually leading to the tip rocker design.

 

regarding making  a pertinent reply to the OP, I'm simply saying that he is asking about performance relative to his stature. I don't think this is the time for him to make a statement, rather get a ski that works.

 

I'm not all that ignorant, though. knowing the models available isn't really that hard. stand in the KT line for 100 hours a season and you get it. Is this not a place where I can criticize a ski without being personally criticized in rebuttal?

 

Peace. Really.

post #11 of 15
Thread Starter 

Thanks for the suggestions, guys!  I have a lot of choices, apparently.  It's going to be tough though.  Paragon in NYC doesn't carry any of them except the Rossignol S7.  Unless I find someone or a publication that has already done so, I'm creating a technical comparison chart to help with my decision.  These will be powder-specific skis since I will still use my old red 170 Mantra 07/08 as my everyday ski (I noticed that Volkl makes all of their skis very stiff now).  Unless there is a magical ski that performs well in all conditions!


Edited by woofcyn - 12/28/10 at 11:27pm
post #12 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecimmortal View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

 

some posters here have a social political bias toward small boutique ski manufacturers.

this has nothing to do with what you are looking for in a ski. especially if this is your first powder ski for a quiver idea.

 

 

It never ceases to amaze me how a small boutique cabinet maker goes out of his way to shit on small boutique ski makers. Especially when you are completely ignorant of what those companies offer in their lineup.


Hmmm. I reread davluri's comment three times. Do not see that he's shitting on anyone, and not clear if he's ignorant (we don't know what he's skied, he seems to have tried Praxis and others). I think what he's saying is that some posters (here and certainly at TGR) have a personal bias toward indies. Which is true on its face, regardless of whether the preference stems from "made-in-America," or "support the little guy startup who cares over the corporate AH Salomons of the the world," or wanting handmade stuff, or just liking the design novelty, or the topsheet graphics. Then he goes on to say that such a bias/preference should have nothing to do with picking a ski. Also true on its face, unless you subscribe to the same preferences. Assume the OP does not. (I actually do, slightly, in that I'll try to include indies in my list, and give them my hardest look.) 

 

Finally, in the next post, I think his most "inflamatory" claim is that indie skis generally do not have as high a QC. That also true on its face; various reps for PM and DPS, for instance, over at TGR have shrugged off the cosmetics issues. Everyone and his/her brother knows that the topsheets will chip and cut worse than majors' topsheets - Splat has flat out said that his topsheets may or may not have small chips from hand beveling depending on when the blade was changed - and that the general integrity of the build, such as the laminates staying where they should, has more variability. Thus the prevalence of advice from reps and makers to haul out the epoxy. And no indie skis I've purchased have had flat bases or true edges from the factory. Some do OK because they have good shops, like Starthaus, to finish their skis for them. This doesn't set them apart from Head, for instance, but it means that they require at least as much care and attention after purchase.

 

So if you buy indie skis assuming they'll be as perfect out of the box as say an Elan, Blizzard, or Kastle, or look as good after a season, you're probably gonna be unhappy if you hit the wrong side of the curve for QC. But IME, that's not why we buy indie skis (and I have happily owned several.) 

 

Didn't realize you made furniture, davluri. Cool. PM me if you have an online site.

post #13 of 15
Thread Starter 

I've narrowed my choices down to Line Prophet 115 and Dynastar Huge.  I haven't seen the latter in a store yet, but I heard the Huge is a heavy, stiff ski similar to Volkl.  As for the Line Prophet, I'm debating whether I should get the 172 or 179.  172 obviously has more maneuverability in tight trees while the 179 would be faster.  Usually the good snow is in the trees, but there's nothing like skiing fast on a large unobstructed powder field.  It's certainly lighter and more flexible compared to the Kuros.

post #14 of 15

May be digging up a bit of an older thread here, but I'm similar in stature to the OP, and looking to pick up a similar ski for next year.  I'm curious what you ended up going with, and how you like it.  Those are both models I'm considering somewhat as well, as there seems to be some stock of them left out there.  Have a bit of the golidlocks effect with the huge though, coming in 175 or 185...
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

On the other hand, when I brought up the construction of early K2 skis and the use of wet-wrap fiberglass tortion box construction which was initially lively but broke down very quickly, several boutique ski makers weighed in and clearly had never heard the term yet assumed that all fiberglass skis were made that way.


This comment also confused me a bit as well.   It was my impression that most of the boutique makers out there were using sandwich laminate, with the main difference between the big guys being that none of them use metal.  Torsion box seems to be more limited to the big guys, who still largely advertise it as being advantageous.  Are there other methods for making glass torsion boxes that produce superior durability?  I'd agree that it would be pretty distressing to talk to someone making skis that thought that was the only way fiberglass was being used.

 

Being an engineer I'm admittedly a bit of a dork about how stuff is made, so this is purely a curiosity thing.

post #15 of 15

Don't know of any indies that make torsion boxes, could be wrong. A number of majors do. Volkl Gotama, for instance, or K2 PE/Extreme/whatever it's being called next time. IME, their durability/softening curve is no different than sandwich constructions, but they do have a different feel, more pop and lateral stiffness. Also tend to be lighter than sandwiches because you don't have to use as much fiberglass and resin (the real weight) to get the same torsional resistance. Goats, for instance, are weirdly light for their width. 

 

As far as metal, DPS is now offering vertical metal laminates in its Pure series. Said to be somewhat damper than its former all carbon and wood sandwich. Will tell you more when I have a pair next fall. Think that's the only one. 

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