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Have you found any waxes comparable to Swix CH for speed in a lower price range?

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 

If so, what are they?


I've always used CH because it was the only locally available wax (other than universals or rub-ons)


Since I'm ordering online I have alternatives to CH


Even if it's flourinated and faster, but of a similar price or less I'm interested.


If you have found one wax line in say colder conditions to work better vs. brand y in warmer conditions (of appropriate temperature range), I'm interested.


Thank You

post #2 of 18

With money and work Swix (nowadays) put into development, just stick with Swix. Sure there are times when "exotic" waxes work, but you don't have time nor resources to test this and to find out this. So for general use, or even racing without much money, Swix is way to go nowadays. If you would ask me this 10 years ago, I would go for Toko, but nowadays... just stick with Swix ;)

post #3 of 18

Just sayin':

Broad statements like this are inaccurate and perpetuate inaccurate information......and is also how rumors start and become and stay as 'perceived facts'........



Originally Posted by primoz View Post
So for general use, or even racing without much money, Swix is way to go nowadays.
post #4 of 18

This might be broad statement, but it's not that inaccurate ;) It's truth that Swix puts more money into development of new waxes then everyone else together. Development of new waxes is not rocket science, but it still takes "a bit" more then melting wax and adding some color. So that's reason, why there's not much chances some garage company can do much in this business. Now another thing... check who is running what in WC ;) And you will see big number of top teams (more or less ski producers, since techs for top people are not employed by National teams, but by ski companies, and therefore use things which ski companies use, not what National team has contracts with) is with Swix. Of course there's a whole lot of testing every possible wax, but nowadays Swix is in reality way to go... even if you don't like this statement ;)


post #5 of 18

How do you know this as an absolute fact?


Also, just sayin: The Briko-Maplus' parent company has far deeper pockets than Swix and do a fair amount of testing (not to mention makes their own perfluorinated). They are far from a garage company and are players and winners on the world stage. This is not against Swix who does of course make quality products has plenty of support and wins.


But again your statement I think is misleading and you present it as an absolute. None of them are the only and absolute choices for rec skiers, performance and racers.


Edit: if I were Dr D, I'd be offended by your garage comment, BTW. I must be insane, it's dumping and I'm responding again to stuff like this. Do what you want it all works well for us mortals.


Originally Posted by primoz View PostIt's truth that Swix puts more money into development of new waxes then everyone else together.


post #6 of 18

Maplus wax rocks!!!

Seriously, I have not found any wax I like more than Maplus for my personal waxing needs.


I'm on the way out the door, or I'd link you to some product pages and reviews but you can easily do a search for maplus wax and find some awesome info here.

post #7 of 18

I also agree with Trekchick. The Briko-Maplus Race Base Medium Wax is my personal favorite ski wax with great glide in a very wide temp range. Also very long lasting durability. Very economical when you factor in you do not need to wax as often. I have tried several of the Swix waxes and they work good. I however prefer (IMHO) the Maplus RBM for daily skiing and Masters Race Training.

post #8 of 18

For recreational skiers anything will work, but that's not a question. For recreational skiing it really doesn't matter if your skis are 0.01sec faster or slower. So if we are talking about recreational skiing, I don't even see point in this discussion at all. Almost anything will go for this, even if it's wrong temperature range, and if it's done wrong way. Hell... even candle wax will do.

When it comes to racing, things are different. I can tell from first hand experience how things work, but these are a bit over 10 years old, since my last season on WC was back in 1998. But even at that time, there were two serious companies.... Swix and Toko, with Toko having edge most of times. There were some other smaller ones, like Briko (which in reality was more or less joke, but they made great goggles, and they had really great service guy, with who it was fun to spend evenings in bars :)), Holmenkol, HWK, Start, Dominator etc. They had wax or two, which were good or even extremely good in particular conditions, but in general, they were not my choice. But choices were made based on 100s of test runs, and quite few years of experiences.

Nowadays, I admit I don't have first hand experiences anymore. I don't test anymore, I'm out of service business, but I still have so much of this in my blood, that I still find it interesting to talk about this, and get some info from top guys, even though I will never need this info anymore. Considering few of my best friends include service guys of some of top 10 WC racers and WC techs of wax companies, I guess I get at least some info. Sure it's not same as testing on your own, but for getting general view, it's enough. So from there comes my info. Is it a fact? No, but it's pretty close. ;)

PS: I couldn't care less what someone is using. If someone is using Briko, well it's fine with me. If someone else is using Swix or anything else, it's also fine with me. I sell photos of skiing, not ski waxes, so I don't get any profit out of my "suggestions". Both Swix techs on men and women WC are my really good friends, but that's all "connection" I have with Swix, and their salaries won't get any bigger if every single person reading this will go and buy entire Swix collection. Yeah, I use only Swix nowadays, but simply because I get it for free :) And for recreational skiing, that's good enough reason... at least for me ;)

post #9 of 18

Extremely well   said Primoz.....


I hope that clears it for people that just want to.............. Talk.....

post #10 of 18

Just in case you missed it, I'm simply calling BS on 'absolute' and misleading statements stated as actual fact. Not which wax is better than which wax. My comments were relative to comments made indicating company A is 'absolutely' better than company B, C or D because they 'spend more money than B, C & D' combined (how the hell do you know?). My bet it's not true and that the reality is that what goes on skis is more of a soup of brands than absolutely one. On any given day all kinds of combinations could be tested and it's about winning, not which brand is on the skis.


If I recall The Law of Diminishing Returns, just because company A spends more on R&D than B, C or D combined, does not absolutely mean they have a better product than all the rest. Maybe B, C & D are more efficient in their spending and have better testing techniques?


That's great you have an emotional attachment to a brand and contacts and the background, but it is not objective and you are not being accurate, pure and simple with the tagged statements. If people want to believe only what they want to hear and blindly keep purchasing products based on false perceptions perpetuated by the above inaccurate statements, knock yourself out and I'll shut up.


And Primoz, maybe you can answer this: I have been very curious since Torino as to how come the the Norwegians got ABSOLUTELY smoked by the Italians in more than a few marquis skate ski events? Who was using which wax?


And for the record: a local cheap 'garage' wax has been running very well in the recent snows with virtually zero R&D.

post #11 of 18

Ok it's not a fact, and what should I know about this anyway ;) But fact is, that back in my days, there was no one single race (WC, EC, or national cup races), that I would have been using Briko. Sure in 10 years things could have change, but based on info I have, they didn't change all that much.
Another fact is, that company A bought company B few months ago (you can find out easily which companies I'm talking about), and after this, company A sent their techs and chemists to check what company B has. So that what I said is fact at least for company A compared to company B. Considering both of these companies were way ahead of anything else for long time, I don't think this, what I wrote, is so much of BS ;)
Of course there's no one single wax which would work for everything, but with whole lot of tests, you get some kind of pattern. And back in my days, I was using waxes from particular company in let's say 70% of cases. But there were times, when some other wax worked better. But these were more or less very specific conditions, not average ski and snow conditions.
PS: I don't have any emotional attachment to Swix. Back in my days, Swix was not wax of my choice (at least in majority of cases). It is now, but I also wrote why, and that doesn't mean I would recommend it just because of this. Having good friends working for Swix, doesn't really mean I like this company just because of that. I'm totally indifferent to this. As I said before, I don't get anything if people buy Swix or Briko or Start or any other wax.

post #12 of 18

Fair enough.



to make sure others do not maintain an inaccurate and wrong impression and continue to make skewing statements about Briko-Maplus: Maplus bought and absorbed the Briko company and added SOME of the Briko snow type waxes into the now Briko-Maplus line which is winning on the world stage and elsewhere. As is Toko...and Swix....among others and combos.


I have been told from Toko (which we also carry, along with some Swix, the new owners of Toko, who I just wrote a very substantial check to, BTW) that the intention is to predominately maintain their separate identities and product lines rather than absorb and 'homogenize' the brand. Good news for Toko fans.


I'm still curious about the races at Torino. If the Norwegians, typically associated with Brand A, and looked like they had sandpaper for wax or pulling a trailer, compared to the Italians who flew and assumed to be associated with Brand C (then, Maplus), to the cynical and casual observer, one might make the assumption that this may be why Brand A saw the need to throw tons of money at R&D to try and play catch up to Brand C. Where's the truth on this one?wink.gif


A funny irony from a previous year's Maplus catalog was showing pictures of several supported National Teams....some sporting Swix speed suits.


The  2010 Briko-Maplus catalog sports Bode Miller. Is it the helmets, the wax or the paycheck....or all of the above?

Edited by Alpinord - 12/22/10 at 10:53am
post #13 of 18

I have no idea about Torino. I was out of this business that time already. But things are not this simple. I guess you are talking about xc skiing or? If so, there's way more factors then just wax, especially just glide wax. There's structure, there's kick wax, and then, the most important, there are techs doing all the work. Contrary to popular belief, Norwegians, with their at least two times bigger wax team then anyone else (except for maybe Swedes), are not that superior as people think. They are making whole lot of mistake, most of times at most important races, even though they shouldn't do this. Especially with money behind them, and especially with all those people involved. It's a whole lot easier to do your job, when you have 15+ guys on wax team, then when you are alone or in best case with on or two colleagues. So things you mentioned might have their roots in many things, but personally I don't consider Norwegians as biggest factor when it comes to service work.

PS: Toko is suppose to stay separate company, but that doesn't mean Swix won't take advantage of their knowledge. ;) And one more thing... Currently I don't know about Briko-Maplus, but Toko, Holmenkol and Swix all add almost same teams as their reference teams or as members of national pools. I'm sure also Briko-Maplus is there too. But that's normal. As I wrote many times already, there's no single wax (or wax company) doing best in all occasions. Back in my days some combination of Toko waxes was my choice for around 70% of races. I should go and find old data I should still have somewhere to get exact number, but it really doesn't matter if it's 70% or 65 or 85%, point is, it was used way more then anything else. But for other 30% or so, I was using something else. And in my boxes there were waxes from every possible company, including some extremely exotic German and Russian waxes, which were nowhere to get in public market. So even if Svindal is main poster person of Swix, his tech still has Briko, Toko and everything else in his box. And that means, Briko, Toko etc. can easily add Norwegian team as their reference team :)

post #14 of 18

^^^^^^^Thanks primoz. IMO, that's as accurate as you can get since there are so many variables, motivations, agendas and a high level of subjectivity.


Happy Holidays and the best to you an yours everyone!


An a bit of stoke from CNN this morning: Snowbird or the left and Purgatory (Durango Mountain Resort-DMR on the right). Since Purg is just up the hill, I guess I better go verify the 40" of depth and do more 'product testing'......yet again:



post #15 of 18

Holmenkol has come on very strong withh their waxes in the last few years, and offer simply applied, broad range waxes. I just ordered a box of their "Olympic Mix" which they put together for the Vancouver 2010 Games.


I also really like the Swix products, as I know the line very well. I use the LF line for most everything as the HF costs a hell of a lot more, and I can get the same results with a bit of pure flouro added in if needed. If you want a really easy to use, broad range wax, consider the Swix F4 Universal.

post #16 of 18

WOW lots of good techy info about wax here.


I am kindda curious myself so can someone please answer Pines question??( thats why I read it)


Old Boot

post #17 of 18
Pine's question has been answered several times over, in different directions.

Have you found any waxes comparable to Swix CH for speed in a lower price range, (I need to make each waxing as cheap as possible, and I don't need MAXIMUM speed on any given day) ?

- read primož' answer

Have you found any waxes comparable to Swix CH for speed in a lower price range. (I need to make my overall wax expenditure as low as possible, each waxing can be a bit more but I will adapt how often I do it)?

- read Alpinord's answer

Have you found any waxes comparable to Swix CH for speed in a lower price range (I need MAXIMUM speed per dollar, and I'm willing to spend more than a Swix CH if it will get me that speed cheaply)?

- read Betaracer's answer
post #18 of 18
Thread Starter 

I've been reading this, and I think my question has been answered.  I'm just trying to absorb information and really think about and look into different waxes.


Thank you very much for everyone who posted.  There is a lot of enlightening information here!

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