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Epic Skis?

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 

Just wanted to put a crazy idea out: what do you guys think about designing a set of Epic skis as a group: we can all discuss the shape, width, stiffness and construction that we think will work best, and vote on a few configurations, design and vote on the graphics, and then have one or two of the the winning designs made by one of the indie ski companies.   I am always wondering why only pro skiers get to design their own skis.  What works for Cody Townsend or Scott Schmidt is not necessarily ideal for me...  

 

Ideally, I'd like to see three designs- a Western all-mountain ski, an Eastern carver, and a true resort powder ski.  I am sure that if one of the local indie companies gets involved, there would be plenty of potential beta-testers on this board.  rolleyes.gif   I'd probably be happy to buy at least one of those skis. 

 

P.S. The idea comes actually from seeing a series of kitchen knives that was designed through a similar collective process by the members of an internet knife forum and then manufactured by a japanese company.  These "forum" knives are indeed some of the best and the most practical semi-pro kitchen knives you can buy at any price.     

post #2 of 19

UH............................You're a little late on this idea.  I won a pair of skis here near the end of last season that were custom made by Kyle Pilote (donated by nolo).  I haven't posted a pic of them yet, but they are basically blue with the EpicSki logo plastered all over them.

 

The bindings for them arrived day before yesterday and when I get to the hill in a few weeks I'm going to have them mounted and head out on them.  (I'll post some pics in early January)  They are one of his "stock" sizes measuring 130-90-115 in a 186 length.  I left all the metal out of them as they are going to be primarily a powder board and used only in the west.

 

I agreed to let folks cruise around on them (I ski with a lot of Bears) so as long as your foot fits the binding and you're out with me, you can ski on what I think is the first "Epic Ski".

 

(btw-the level of quality of the workmanship appears to be above what I've seen from the major players)

 

smile.gif

post #3 of 19

worthless.gif

post #4 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Louie View Post

UH............................You're a little late on this idea.  I won a pair of skis here near the end of last season that were custom made by Kyle Pilote (donated by nolo).  I haven't posted a pic of them yet, but they are basically blue with the EpicSki logo plastered all over them.

 

The bindings for them arrived day before yesterday and when I get to the hill in a few weeks I'm going to have them mounted and head out on them.  (I'll post some pics in early January)  They are one of his "stock" sizes measuring 130-90-115 in a 186 length.  I left all the metal out of them as they are going to be primarily a powder board and used only in the west.

 

I agreed to let folks cruise around on them (I ski with a lot of Bears) so as long as your foot fits the binding and you're out with me, you can ski on what I think is the first "Epic Ski".

 

(btw-the level of quality of the workmanship appears to be above what I've seen from the major players)

 

smile.gif


I am not surprised because Kyle is a perfectionist.

Can't wait to see them.

post #5 of 19



I think what Alexzn is thinking is a bit different. He is talking about the Epic Community as a whole designing some skis, not just having a custom Epic Ski give away. I think its a cool idea to combine the expertise of the community to see what we could come up with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Louie View Post

UH............................You're a little late on this idea.  I won a pair of skis here near the end of last season that were custom made by Kyle Pilote (donated by nolo).  I haven't posted a pic of them yet, but they are basically blue with the EpicSki logo plastered all over them.

post #6 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylrwnzl View Post

I think what Alexzn is thinking is a bit different. He is talking about the Epic Community as a whole designing some skis, not just having a custom Epic Ski give away. I think its a cool idea to combine the expertise of the community to see what we could come up with.

 

I'm with ya.

 

Kyle has all sorts of stock sizes he doesn't need to create patterns for, but can design any size/shape you want. He had several options with the type of wood core materials and metal or carbon fiber that he could have added to the pair he made for me.

 

 He can use different topsheet designs we could come up with too. 

 

The best part is.....the pricing I saw was comparable (in many cases less) than what a stock pair of major brand skis cost.

 

I think if the folks here want to come up with a few "basic Epic models", like a western powder ski, an eastern ice ski, or something groomer specific of for bumps etc etc, the possibility of  multiple models of a custom ski could easily hit the hill.
 

post #7 of 19
Thread Starter 

tylrwnzl, thanks .  You are correct, the goal of the exercise is to do a community design, not just a branded ski.  I dont really care if it is made by Kyle, or by PM Gear, Praxis, Moment or whoever else, as long as it is made well and carries some warranty.  Presumably, if the designs work well, there should be a legitimate business reason for a manufacturer to press a decent number of skis. 

 

 

Alex   
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tylrwnzl View Post



I think what Alexzn is thinking is a bit different. He is talking about the Epic Community as a whole designing some skis, not just having a custom Epic Ski give away. I think its a cool idea to combine the expertise of the community to see what we could come up with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Louie View Post

UH............................You're a little late on this idea.  I won a pair of skis here near the end of last season that were custom made by Kyle Pilote (donated by nolo).  I haven't posted a pic of them yet, but they are basically blue with the EpicSki logo plastered all over them.

post #8 of 19


Why not give this a shot at least at starting something? Maybe some of the mods/admins have some suggestion as how to proceed? But in the mean time this is my suggestion on design styles:

 

The ones already suggested:

Western Powder Ski

Eastern Groomer

"True Resort Powder Ski" (although I'm not exactly sure what that is)

 

I thought I'd suggest a park ski. I'm not a huge park guy and the Epic community at large doesn't seem to be much into the trauma park either, but I thought I'd throw it out there. Also I thought I'd suggest an "all mountain ski" (should be an interesting debate on what all mountain means). If we designed an Epic All Mountain Ski we could eliminate the 24863 and counting threads on "what ski is right for me?". 

 

I don't know about logistics and such, but would this be best suited to a discussion in the Supporter lounge or do we want the Epic Ski design to be a public thing? I think it would be a cool perk for supporters to have community designed skis, but thats not my call. This is just a start anyone other than me interested in this idea feel free to add on and see if we can start something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzn View Post

tylrwnzl, thanks .  You are correct, the goal of the exercise is to do a community design, not just a branded ski.  I dont really care if it is made by Kyle, or by PM Gear, Praxis, Moment or whoever else, as long as it is made well and carries some warranty.  Presumably, if the designs work well, there should be a legitimate business reason for a manufacturer to press a decent number of skis. 

 

 

Alex   
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tylrwnzl View Post



I think what Alexzn is thinking is a bit different. He is talking about the Epic Community as a whole designing some skis, not just having a custom Epic Ski give away. I think its a cool idea to combine the expertise of the community to see what we could come up with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Louie View Post

UH............................You're a little late on this idea.  I won a pair of skis here near the end of last season that were custom made by Kyle Pilote (donated by nolo).  I haven't posted a pic of them yet, but they are basically blue with the EpicSki logo plastered all over them.


 
post #9 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Louie View Post

;so as long as your foot fits the binding

what BSL?
post #10 of 19
Thread Starter 

Clarification:  Resort powder ski is the ski equally suited to skiing first tracks and cut-up powder snow that you get a couple of hours after the lifts open (here at Squaw it is more like 30-40 minutes).  Sure we all dream about endless heli-ski lines, but in reality I ski cut up powder much more often than I get first tracks. 

post #11 of 19

I think this is a great idea but would like to see na ski that would be suited tobc as well as stuff oriented towards the resort

post #12 of 19

This idea continues the arrogance of amateurs, assuming that Atomic, Volkl, Dynastar, Rossignol engineers don't have the intelligence that you do when designing a ski. It's definitely insulting to their profession.

 

There is nothing unique about skiers or snow laid down on an inclined plane, therefore no need to make something eccentric, beyond the current class of skis such as Praxis Pow and Bentchettlers.

 

I'd imagine you'd have a hard time not copying many major design parameters, varying dimensions by an iota here or there. It would be a fun exercise and I bet illuminating when put to a blind performance comparison with said mainstream models^^.

post #13 of 19
It would be a fun exercise though, and that right there might make the game worth the candle.

I think daring designers do exist on this forum, but they will get voted down because the consensus will follow industry trends.
post #14 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzn View Post


Clarification:  Resort powder ski is the ski equally suited to skiing first tracks and cut-up powder snow that you get a couple of hours after the lifts open (here at Squaw it is more like 30-40 minutes).  Sure we all dream about endless heli-ski lines, but in reality I ski cut up powder much more often than I get first tracks. 






The bummer of resort skiing. I hate it when this happens, but when you live 6 hours from the resort what choice do you have? For the described conditions my Praxis Back Country's work great.
post #15 of 19

 

As long as they were called things like "Epic Extreme" or "Epic Legit".

post #16 of 19


I don't think any of us think we're going to be replacing major brands, but just that it would be a fun and cool thing to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

This idea continues the arrogance of amateurs, assuming that Atomic, Volkl, Dynastar, Rossignol engineers don't have the intelligence that you do when designing a ski. It's definitely insulting to their profession.

 

There is nothing unique about skiers or snow laid down on an inclined plane, therefore no need to make something eccentric, beyond the current class of skis such as Praxis Pow and Bentchettlers.

 

I'd imagine you'd have a hard time not copying many major design parameters, varying dimensions by an iota here or there. It would be a fun exercise and I bet illuminating when put to a blind performance comparison with said mainstream models^^.



 



Quote:
Originally Posted by comprex View Post


It would be a fun exercise though, and that right there might make the game worth the candle.

I think daring designers do exist on this forum, but they will get voted down because the consensus will follow industry trends.
 
post #17 of 19
Thread Starter 
Davluri- I think the wisdom of the engineers for major brands is in manufacturing processes more than in design. I think the best design has always been driven by skiers, not by engineers, that how we got wide skis, rocker, fun shapes, etc. Note that I didn't suggest that we press the skis ourselves, I'd rather test the manufacturing to a company that knows what it is doing. But I think the wisdom of the crowds a powerful force and here we have a lot of people who know their skis and have a pretty detailed and knowledgeable opinion on what works and what does not. and we collectively ski many more days than the testers for major brands.
post #18 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzn View Post

and we collectively ski many more days than the testers for major brands.


No you don't. You also don't ski the same and the 'testing' that gets done will not be as focused or useful... but I'm sure everyone will have fun, so go for it. Just remember, in the end this is 'Pros vs. Joes'.

 

As far as getting it made, isn't one of the site moderators here a part owner of one of the early Indie ski companys? A certain company founded by the members of another ski forum who decided to design their own ultimate all mountain ski?

post #19 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by liv2 ski View Post





The bummer of resort skiing. I hate it when this happens, but when you live 6 hours from the resort what choice do you have? For the described conditions my Praxis Back Country's work great.


It's more of a bummer if your skis are over-specialized for powder, and/or you ski untracked powder better than you ski cut and crud. learn to love cut up snow and you're solid any time of day.

 

I do like the idea of creating a ski, of course, but would suggest one stipulation to keep it interesting: you don't make the ski unless it is in someway significantly different from leading designs currently out there, and let everyone know what that major design innovation is, and how it should affect the ski's performance. To design a ski by adding 2mm to the entire width of a Bentchettler, (for example) and saying it's the epic ski would not be as interesting, and a form of rip-off, which would be the last thing we would want to do. (might get sued by 4 front or whoever that was a while back.rolleyes.gif)

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