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Salomon STH 14 VS 16 + Din Question

post #1 of 28
Thread Starter 

Other than the DIN setting, is there any reason to get the 16 over the 14 if I do not need a DIN that high. Also, I am 5'11, 205 lbs, and I ski pretty aggressively.  But from what I understand a DIN of 14 is really high as it is. Where would you place my DIN setting. From the online calculators I am getting at most a 10 on the recommendation. Whats a real human have to say on this?

 

 

 

 

post #2 of 28

Traditionally, you should shoot for your personal DIN setting, to fall somewhere in the middle of the scale on the binding you are using.  If the STH 14 has a range of say 6-14, then you would be perfect.  If the STH is 8-16, you would be towards the lower end of the scale.  As it was explained to me a long time ago, I guess the springs lose some consistency towards the outer limits of their spectrum.  However, if you'd rather lose a knee than lose a ski, get the highest you can find, and max it out.  Your suggested personal DIN should be dependent on Height, Weight, Ability, Boot Sole Length and I think age. (somebody correct me if this list is incomplete...it's been awhile since I set one up by the book)

post #3 of 28

Oh and I've been riding park and jumping off things for years with Look PX14's,  Salomon S914's and Tyrolia Mojo 15's with no problems.  Even used S912's and Pivot 12's with no repercussions.

post #4 of 28
Thread Starter 

No offense but I dont think you really answered either of the questions I asked...

post #5 of 28

Yes I did.  I told you which you would need if your DIN is supposed to be 10.  I'm assuming the calculators you are using are basing the results off the criteria I mentioned...age, weight, ability, boot size and height.  If you would like your own DIN to be something other than official scales and such would recommend (like when I suggested blowing a knee before losing a ski), then that is entirely up to you.  If your ski keeps falling off at 10, turn it up to 11 and try again.

 

I am a real human, and that's what I have to say on this.

post #6 of 28

If you want another reason to get a binding higher, then let me tell you another example.  I bought a GS ski this year for a company racing thing.  I put a Head Free Flex 17 binding on it.  My reasoning is, I'm fairly confident that I'm not going to fall down in a GS course.  But I do intend to ski aggressively and I don't want the ski popping off just from putting to much pressure on it turning.  So I picked a binding that goes higher, so that I can crank it down harder than my normal skis.  There you go.  A reason to get a 16 instead of a 14. 

post #7 of 28

The only reason for getting a binding that has a higher DIN than you need is that the binding also has other features that come with the higher DIN spring, like sturdier materials besides the thicker spring.  I'm sorry I don't know if the STH 14 and 16 have any differences besides the spring itself, perhaps someone who knows will chime in.

post #8 of 28

If you have to ask - get the 14.

post #9 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingGrump View Post

If you have to ask - get the 14.



This

post #10 of 28

The 16 has an extra screw holding down the heel piece. i don't need to run my din that high but, I chose the 16 for one of my pairs of skis because I have torn out heel pieces on two occasions and it wasn't fun.

post #11 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingGrump View Post

If you have to ask - get the 14.



You nailed it.  Of course if what you want is bragging rights get yourself some Marker 30.0s......

post #12 of 28
Thread Starter 

Why does having to ask automatically decide the answer in your minds? I mean, I've been skiing a long time but never paid any attention to the technical aspects of it until recently. Does my lack of knowledge on this really dictate what ski binding I should get?

post #13 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxammo View Post

The 16 has an extra screw holding down the heel piece. i don't need to run my din that high but, I chose the 16 for one of my pairs of skis because I have torn out heel pieces on two occasions and it wasn't fun.


I'm pretty sure all the STH models have the same heel piece with the 5th screw, so that point is moot.  For the OP, both will do the job.  The DIN spring is the only difference.  Safe yourself a few bucks and get the 14's, assuming of course that you don't need to set your DIN higher than 13 or so.
 

post #14 of 28
Thread Starter 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandit Man View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxammo View Post

The 16 has an extra screw holding down the heel piece. i don't need to run my din that high but, I chose the 16 for one of my pairs of skis because I have torn out heel pieces on two occasions and it wasn't fun.


I'm pretty sure all the STH models have the same heel piece with the 5th screw, so that point is moot.  For the OP, both will do the job.  The DIN spring is the only difference.  Safe yourself a few bucks and get the 14's, assuming of course that you don't need to set your DIN higher than 13 or so.
 


Thank you, first person to answer one of my questions.

 

Now, can anyone help me determine what DIN setting I would need or should I ask the guys at the ski shop?

post #15 of 28

The 14's and the 16's are the exact same binding in housing and hole patterns. The only difference in $50.00 and 2 more in the DIN, also be aware that the 16 STARTS at 9. 

post #16 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxammo View Post

The 16 has an extra screw holding down the heel piece. i don't need to run my din that high but, I chose the 16 for one of my pairs of skis because I have torn out heel pieces on two occasions and it wasn't fun.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post

The 14's and the 16's are the exact same binding in housing and hole patterns. The only difference in $50.00 and 2 more in the DIN, also be aware that the 16 STARTS at 9. 

I'm confusedconfused.gif
 

post #17 of 28


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RockSlide View Post

Why does having to ask automatically decide the answer in your minds? I mean, I've been skiing a long time but never paid any attention to the technical aspects of it until recently. Does my lack of knowledge on this really dictate what ski binding I should get?



 99% of the skiers runs on whatever the DIN chart spec. The remaining 1% have to crank it up to prevent blow outs. If you've been skiing for a long time and have no issue with blow outs then you are in the 99% group. No point going into a higher DIN binding for bragging rights. Unless that's your intent. 

post #18 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxammo View Post

The 16 has an extra screw holding down the heel piece. i don't need to run my din that high but, I chose the 16 for one of my pairs of skis because I have torn out heel pieces on two occasions and it wasn't fun.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post

The 14's and the 16's are the exact same binding in housing and hole patterns. The only difference in $50.00 and 2 more in the DIN, also be aware that the 16 STARTS at 9. 

I'm confusedconfused.gif
 


The Sth 14 and the Sth 16 both are "worm heels" and have the 5 hole pattern. 

post #19 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockSlide View Post

Why does having to ask automatically decide the answer in your minds? I mean, I've been skiing a long time but never paid any attention to the technical aspects of it until recently. Does my lack of knowledge on this really dictate what ski binding I should get?


Probably because Fujative provided a pretty decent response in his original reply and your response was that he didn't provide a reply.  What I suspect many read in your posts was that you were looking for a specific answer rather than an independent view  (eg "From the online calculators I am getting at most a 10 on the recommendation..."  ) What number would you like to get?.  Followed by"Now, can anyone help me determine what DIN setting I would need or should I ask the guys at the ski shop?"  .  You have basically answered your own question on that and you are already familiar with the the online calculators .....  we could of course provide the "Deli" answer for your Din setting - pick a number! 

 

Virtually everyone here is  very willing to provide informed answers and guidance.  However don't then complain if folk take the time to give you an answer and you don't like it.    Phil has given you excellent advice on the binding design/cost/features  etc, others have given guidance on what influences many of our personal decisions on Din settings as opposed to factory charts.  Looks like pretty good advice all round that supports analytical decision-making.  Din setting is something where you either use recommended settings for or modify based on personal experience/conditions/risk tolerance  etc.  I don't pretend to be qualified to make a decision on that for you.  Based on what you have suggested, in your position i would probably get the STH 14 and save the $50. 

post #20 of 28


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotsSkier View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by RockSlide View Post

Why does having to ask automatically decide the answer in your minds? I mean, I've been skiing a long time but never paid any attention to the technical aspects of it until recently. Does my lack of knowledge on this really dictate what ski binding I should get?


Probably because Fujative provided a pretty decent response in his original reply and your response was that he didn't provide a reply.  What I suspect many read in your posts was that you were looking for a specific answer rather than an independent view  (eg "From the online calculators I am getting at most a 10 on the recommendation..."  ) What number would you like to get?.  Followed by"Now, can anyone help me determine what DIN setting I would need or should I ask the guys at the ski shop?"  .  You have basically answered your own question on that and you are already familiar with the the online calculators .....  we could of course provide the "Deli" answer for your Din setting - pick a number! 

 

Virtually everyone here is  very willing to provide informed answers and guidance.  However don't then complain if folk take the time to give you an answer and you don't like it.    Phil has given you excellent advice on the binding design/cost/features  etc, others have given guidance on what influences many of our personal decisions on Din settings as opposed to factory charts.  Looks like pretty good advice all round that supports analytical decision-making.  Din setting is something where you either use recommended settings for or modify based on personal experience/conditions/risk tolerance  etc.  I don't pretend to be qualified to make a decision on that for you.  Based on what you have suggested, in your position i would probably get the STH 14 and save the $50. 


Thank you.  I was left scratching my head when he sassed me after the first reply.

post #21 of 28

There is more difference in the 14 and the 16 than just the Din range.

 

The toes on the Sth14 vs. the  Sth 16 are not necessarily the same. (I believe this story to be accurate.)

The original Sth 14 and Sth 16 came with the so-called "Driver" toe which is the older style Salomon 912- 916 design. They have had it for quite a few years.(10+)??  A very dependable and durable binding.  The magazines say the difference in the Sth Driver versus the other Sth design is the wing width adjustment(which is in the side of the wings rather than being "automatic") which is true but they are also an entirely different configuration.

The other configuration was created when Salomon came out with the STh 12. The Sth 12 toe is a design along the lines of the Z series toes, but of a stronger/heavier duty design. Then they also began to, and still, make the Sth 14 in a non-"Driver" version but the Sth 16 is available in only one iteration.

The heels are the same.

 

Or did I just dream all this........................?

 

By the way, I believe the difference in cost between the Sth 14 and the Sth 14 "Driver" is about $20.

post #22 of 28

This is getting more complicated than it needs to be. The STH 16 is driver toe only. The STH 14 is available with the driver toe or the z style toe. Performance purists tend to prefer the driver - and most shops I know have favored (or ordered exclusively) STH 14 Drivers this year. And they have sold like hotcakes. The driver toe has more screws holding it in. IIRC the z is a shade lighter. The only real downside to the driver toe is that it needs correct vertical adjustment and wing adjustment - and to have those double checked every few months. One more thing for a less than stellar shop to mess up. But no big deal at all for a competent shop &/or informed skier. The z style toe auto adjusts.

 

FWIW, both the 14 and 12 can now be had either way.

 

Honestly, given the nature of this discussion, I'm not sure it matters which toe OP gets. Either STH 14 rates just fine in my book. 


Edited by spindrift - 12/14/10 at 5:50pm
post #23 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockSlide View Post

I am 5'11, 205 lbs, and I ski pretty aggressively.  But from what I understand a DIN of 14 is really high as it is. Where would you place my DIN setting. From the online calculators I am getting at most a 10 on the recommendation. Whats a real human have to say on this?

 

 

 

 


We are pretty much the same build and similar abilities. Guys in the shop told me I was a 7 din setting (possibly because I am 50+) that said, I have all of my skis set at a 9 DIN except my powder skis that are set to 10. As others have said, a DIN setting is a personal choice for a small group of skiers. Most people are fine were the shop wants to set it. So here is how I look at it. Have you had a pre release? Go tighter. When you crashed, did the ski come off when you thought it needed to? Cool, not to tight. I have some STH 16's on some powder skis, as I thought the binding had a metal toe for more durability, but perhaps the STH 14 driver toe does to. In any event, get the STH14 IMO.

post #24 of 28

I have both the 14 and 16 with driver toes. The 14 has a different din screw on the front of the toe piece, and the driver pedestal is plastic on the 14 as opposed to metal on the 16. Unless you bomb cliff's it probably won't make a difference besides DIN range and price. Get the 14.

post #25 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxammo View Post

The 16 has an extra screw holding down the heel piece. i don't need to run my din that high but, I chose the 16 for one of my pairs of skis because I have torn out heel pieces on two occasions and it wasn't fun.



The 14 has this "extra" screw as well.  Five screws total on the heel piece.

post #26 of 28

http://www.dinsetting.com/dinchart.htm

 

go here..

 

Directions for determining your din are at the bottom of the page.

 

post #27 of 28

I just re-read the original post, and see there actually are two questions:

1) is the DIN chart calculator giving realistic DIN settings:  Yes they are if you take skier type into account: Most charts have you go up or down a line to account for levels I, II, III.  III+ is just one more line down.

 

2) Once you have your DIN, let's say 10 (or 11 if you decide to go down an extra line to bump yourself up to III+)  Should you buy the 16, even though your DIN is covered by the 14?  That I can't say, not knowing the differences (other than the obvious DIN spring), but it seems to me that the odds are on a binding designed for a higher DIN would be more robust as well, which would make it more durable.  However, if the bindings are really just the exact same except for those springs, I would get the lower DIN model.  Maybe sometimes it's cheaper to just change the spring to accommodate lightweights than to design a whole new binding housing with thinner metal or plastic pieces.

post #28 of 28
Thread Starter 

Hello again everyone. I just wanted to say sorry if I came of sounding like a dick beforehand. All your advice was very helpful and I thank you for taking the time to answer my question.

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