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Salomon BBR Ski - pure genius? or pure stupidity? - Page 2

post #31 of 64

Several BBR vids on youtube...

 

 

post #32 of 64

Ok, I just got back from Whistler and skied BBR 7.9 and 8.9 demos when I was there.  Although I liked the 8.9 a little better, both are simply amazing!  They are worth all the hype and I will own the 8.9s soon.  Laugh all you want and in the mean time I will be having a blast all over the mountain.  You must try these....it is like cheating!

post #33 of 64

At Philpug's suggestion, I demoed the 186 8.9s this weekend, skiing Northstar on Saturday morning (firm conditions with some softening late morning) and Alpine Meadows on Sunday (light snow, heavy wind).

 

Initial impressions:  Silly looking.  Soft flex, especially in the tips.  Felt heavy -- that could be the demo bindings, but the wasted 6-7cm behind the rear contact point sure didn't help.

 

Positive:  Turn initiation.  Put them on edge, and the huge shovel carves you around.  Turn shapes were easy to vary by altering edge angle and pressure.

 

Negative:  Serious speed limit.  Every time I felt like I'd lost control of the ski, I'd look down to see the tips flapping to beat the band.  I did not run my GPS for speed, but I'd estimate that this set in around 25-30mph.  As far as stability, 186s felt like low to mid 170s.  Heavy (although that could be the demo bindings

 

 

Depends on your perspective:  Tolerates/rewards bad technique.  I played around with my stance, and these actually felt somewhat more secure and stable when I was in the back seat.

 

Unknown due to conditions:  Soft snow performance.  On the one hand, I've enjoyed skiing pintails (Dynastar 4x4 National Team/ATV) in soft snow in the past, although it's been a few years.  On the other hand, placing the point of greatest resistance a couple of feet in front of the tips of my boots seems counterproductive.

 

Bottom line:  I did not hate these nearly as much as I thought I would.  I would not buy them, but then, I'm not their target market.  The target appears to be an aging terminal intermediate who wants a ski that can handle most conditions he might encounter during the 7 days or so he skis each year at the places he flies to.  For the more advanced and frequent skier who's looking to fill a similar niche, I think that there are much better options.  The ski with which I'm most familiar that would fit a similar profile is the DPS Wailer 112RP, which has better edge hold (despite an additional inch in the waist) and probably better soft snow performance, at a very slight price premium ($800 vs $700).

 

post #34 of 64

wtf where is teh twin???? very laem

 

Sorry, couldn't resist tossing in some NS steeze. Actually, very funny stuff in this thread. My personal fav: invoking the condom tip reservoir in describing the Shaman's tips. VERY funny and made me spew my diet coke at lunch. Very accurate too.

 

As for the BBR, I'll withhold judgment until I ski them. I have a fondness for people making absurd looking skis. I guess my only question is what problem are these skis supposed to solve? The obvious answer is the "all mountain" BS and perhaps that is what they're aiming for. Other suspects in my mind were that they were trying to make an East Coast Shaman. But it sounds like the edge grip is iffy so.... Perhaps it is just a ski made for advance intermediates who don't want a 100 underfoot but want to ski pow. *shrug* Actually, there is nothing wrong with that and is probably an under served niche.

 

 

 

 

 

 

post #35 of 64

Skied these for one day in Verbier last week, so it was only really pistes and bumps.  The first thing I noticed was how far forward the bindings were mounted; there seemed to be a hell of a lot of tail behind my boots!  On piste, I found the result of this was that you couldn't really load the tips at the start of a turn and expect a decent carve; you had to remain mid-boot, and even on your heels the carve was decent.  However, they don't really succeed as a piste ski - my old B2s and my mate's Dobermann Spitfires confirmed that comprehensively.  Steep icy pitches felt quite wobbly partly due to the wide shovels, and the edge grip wasn't great.  They are not a lot of fun at speed - the best way to control them is to have your weight further back than you're used to, and that will get tiring after a while (they don't really allow you to 'rest' your weight against the front of your boots, your thighs need to do much more work).

 

The tips really look and feel over the top, but I found them surprisingly good in the bumps, forgiving.  I think that has a lot to do with the bindings being mounted so far forward, so even if you get thrown back a bit you remain in control.  They were good fun down the Mont Fort bumps.  

 

I only managed to find a little bit of powder, but my impressions were that this is where these are likely to shine.  The soft but wide tips made submarining all but impossible, and the very narrow tail made the transition from turn to turn very, very easy - there's no chance that your tails might catch at all.  In fact, I'm going to stick my neck out and say that the narrow tails might be the greatest influence the BBRs have on future powder/off-piste skis.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            

post #36 of 64

 

Hi, Skied the 7.9 in a 179cm for 2 weeks in all the Tahoe resorts Early April. within 5 mins. of getting out of the car I was thinking of charging skiers £1 to look and £5 to feel (the skis). 

 

They say a Bumble Bee should not be able to Fly but it does. 

 

BBR = Bumble Bee Revised. 

 

I have skied for nearly 40 years (missed last year) and these are the best leap forward since Olin launched the Mark IV. 

 

Short, Long, Hard packed, Powder. not once did they let me down, slight bounce over some Death Cookies 1st thing in the morning but hay ho should look where I am going at that speed.

 

Cried when I had to send them back to Salomon.

 

Also had the New Salomon Access 80 Boots - Fit my Web Feet a treat - If you have WIDE feet with a HIGH instep then your problems are over (Kept them!!)

post #37 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDad View Post

 The target appears to be an aging terminal intermediate who wants a ski that can handle most conditions he might encounter during the 7 days or so he skis each year at the places he flies to.


I liked them on my 44th day of skiing this year at my home mountain.  I suppose I'll admit to the aging part.

 

I tried them out in late season heavy crud and packed out snow.  They turned when and where I told them to, without complaint or need for coddling.  I didn't try them out for speed since I wasn't interested in groomed performance, but on the little bits of ice and groom that I had to navigate they held on just fine.

 

I don't think I'll buy a pair because they want too much for them and they don't feel revolutionary to me.  However, this terminal intermediate thinks that they're a pretty decent ski that would work very well as a one ski quiver.

 

post #38 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Posaune View Post

I liked them on my 44th day of skiing this year at my home mountain. 

 

Thereby illustrating the presence of exceptions to each and every rule.

post #39 of 64

@ Noodler I had the same problem with those skis. I just couldn't finish the turn the way i wanted to. My friend Pat From PM gear told me to Set the binding back an inch and a half. I was amazed i couldn't believe how well it worked. The salomon BBR is my new favorite ski for powder. I love it cause i love powder skiin, but i like to squeeze in groomers on my ski days. Check out the BRO 195 ski from PM gear. It is my favorite all around ski. The thing is badass. My friend clocked me at 85 MPH going through crud. I was sh*tting my self the way doen, but the skis were completely stable and handled the crud with ease.

post #40 of 64

I've also skied both the SuperBro (which I own) and the BBR (which I demoed).

 

As far as I can tell, the only thing the skis have in common is that you and I have both skied them.

post #41 of 64

Your new favorite powder ski is 88mm underfoot?  You must be really light.

post #42 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDad View Post

I've also skied both the SuperBro (which I own) and the BBR (which I demoed).

 

As far as I can tell, the only thing the skis have in common is that you and I have both skied them.



These skis ARE at two ends of the spectrum, that is for sure. [thread drift] I had an opportunity to have Blossom to make the Super Bro/Boss in a 185, but we couldn't get enough pre orders...that would have been a sweet ski. [/thread drift]

post #43 of 64

How are these doing in shops? The shops I've been to never seem to have many on the rack and one sales manager I talked to said they were selling fast, but I'm not sure if that was just a sales guy being a sales guy.

post #44 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post

I had an opportunity to have Blossom to make the Super Bro/Boss in a 185, but we couldn't get enough pre orders...that would have been a sweet ski. [/thread drift]


Wasn't that the King Salmon?

post #45 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDad View Post

Wasn't that the King Salmon?



I am not that familiar with the King Salmon, but I know what I was proposing was a completely new mold. 

post #46 of 64

Precursor to the BBR? Half BBR?  ;-)

 

ski1011_028-029.jpg

post #47 of 64
Thread Starter 

thats a straight ski

post #48 of 64

Straight? I didn't know they had straight skis in 1966!!

 

I guess, like a lot of things skiing, it's a matter of perspective.  ;-)

post #49 of 64

I cant believe you found these skis lacking in edge grip. The best way of describing these skies was ultimate feel of the edge, as if the edge was glued directly to the side of your foot. These skis have a huge performance envelope and will suit good skiers that understand how a ski works and skis by feel. They certainly will not suit very mechanical skiers as you do need to make subtle changes to your style. Only real problem is in very tight gullied mogules they are a bit wide. As for the front digging in not a problem and still stable at 65mph. Think outside the box and you wont be dissapointed.

post #50 of 64

i m not in love with the bbr...

 

maybe on slopes... but tehre are a lot of all mountain skis better than the bbr...cool.gif

head rev 90

blizzard bonafide

nordica enforcer

...

post #51 of 64

BBR? I thought it was the PBR!

I enjoyed my demo of these skis. Very lively and quick. Ok in the couple of virgin bits of powder. Great in cut up crud. Reasonable in the soft bumps. Held OK on the few patches of firm groomers. I never went really fast on them (but I rarely go fast anyway).

I went out on these right after Rossi S7s. The Rossis were better in every individual aspect (except one - the Rossis would not get air). But I enjoyed the Salomons overall way more! They were just plain fun to ride. My big complaint was the weight of these skis. It was hard to throw the little tricks the skis kept egging me on to try. If they went on a serious weight reduction, the advantages to the ski might be magnified.

Eric

post #52 of 64

The BBR looks pretty conservative next to a Dupraz D2 which is 170 (yes, 170!) - 115 - 150, but they ski like something much narrower. I tried them the first day of this season and they are extremely odd, but definitely interesting. Very much a 'V' ski, they also throw a violently asymmetric sidecut into the mix. They just won 'best ski' at ISPO.

post #53 of 64

As someone who's dived and surfed for over 35 years, but only skied for the last six, the one thing I hate is an overbearing, superior attitude to people with less experience, less time but the same desire to have fun and get better.

 

So what if this ski is for the 'terminal intermediate', I demoed it for a day and it did what it says on the tin. It's easy to use, inspires a greater degree of confidence and will lead to more rapid improvements in technique and ability than many other 'all mountain' skis.

 

It strikes me as a little sad that Salomon, perhaps in response to negative feedback, have made the bbr 10 to be a less accessible, harder to use ski and so appeal to loudmouths who talk a great run in the bar at the end of the day.

post #54 of 64

Good skiers don't talk about themselves,other people do. They just smile.smile.gif

post #55 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by ukdiver View Post

As someone who's dived and surfed for over 35 years, but only skied for the last six, the one thing I hate is an overbearing, superior attitude to people with less experience, less time but the same desire to have fun and get better.

 

So what if this ski is for the 'terminal intermediate', I demoed it for a day and it did what it says on the tin. It's easy to use, inspires a greater degree of confidence and will lead to more rapid improvements in technique and ability than many other 'all mountain' skis.

 

It strikes me as a little sad that Salomon, perhaps in response to negative feedback, have made the bbr 10 to be a less accessible, harder to use ski and so appeal to loudmouths who talk a great run in the bar at the end of the day.

The reviewer who called it a ski for the terminal intermediate was describing what he thought the target market for the ski was.  Based on who I've seen skiing them, that does seem to be the market.  Whether that's fair to the ski and whether they work well for other kinds of skiers, I have no idea--I haven't skied on them--but some other reviewers seem to think they do. But I don't see anything overbearing or superior about the remark.  

post #56 of 64

I'm just gonna say that Posaune makes 'em look pretty good.

post #57 of 64

rolleyes.gif


Edited by Posaune - 4/7/13 at 8:42pm
post #58 of 64

With the Cham and other skis of a pin tail design gaining popularity, the BBR is falling right into place as one current idea for a soft mixed conditions ski. If you don't criticize it for not being what it was never intended to be (a high speed crud basher), it is a fine ski.  I think they need to redesign the tip, losing that sharp point, to be more widely accepted. Bad call there, IMO.

post #59 of 64

The BBR is a great ski for a simple reason, it's easy and fun to ski. These threads remind me of the debate about Prince tennis racquets when they first came out and how they were an unfair advantage.

post #60 of 64

I really like the BBR, especially after a good tune, but one downside I could think of is, its so easy to ride, when i try on a more 'traditional' rock-camber skis, I feel like I had to re-learn how to skis, since making turn with the BBR is so effortless, it turns in a matter of thought...

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