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Best Ski for Jackson hole

post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 

 

 

Hello everyone.  I'm "new again" to the forum.  I used to come here couple years back but fell of the wagon. . .  

 

I'm an expert skiier.  I've been skiing for 34 yrs, 5' 9", 220lbs.  Until recently I mostly skiied Ajax and Snowmass' Hanging Valley areas.  We sold our place and now I'm trying out Jackson Hole.  I'm active, lift weights, and work out. I have a "linebacker" build.  I train off season in FL using a skiers edge.  I'm looking for a ski to buy for going to Jackson hole to replace my 2009 Gotamas and my  Atomic B5 metrons.  Any suggestions for either an all mountain ski, or one front side and one big mountain ski?  I like the steeps, powder in bowls, but love powder in the trees?  (But, I also need a ski that can handle front side, and bumps (which I used to focus on almost exclusively)).


Edited by ScottWeber - 12/6/10 at 6:23pm
post #2 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottWeber View Post
 I like the steeps, powder in bowls, but love powder in the trees?  (But, I also need a ski that can handle front side, and bumps (which I used to focus on almost exclusively)).

For a single ski, something in the 98-105 range, mild to moderate front rocker, maybe a PM Bros 183, Kastle MX98, Elan Spire, Nordica Enforcer. For a couple of skis, move up the fat to a PM Lhasa Pow, Blizzard Answer, Kastle MX108, Prior Overlord, Volkl Katana, Dynastar HT, and add something in the 80's for weeks between storms. Blizzard 8.7, Dynastar Mythic Rider, etc; SJ's "Crazy 88's" thread has some nice reviews, also check out Dawgcatching's reviews that are constructed by width range. 

post #3 of 29

Why are you replacing the Goats and how did you like them?  Is the 2009 the non-rockered version?  The B5 is a carving beast.  How did you like that?  Was it a good ski for you in the bumps, or only on the groomers?  Are you looking for one ski to do it all and replace both of these or will you be getting an entirely new quiver?  If going for a quiver how many skis are you willing to buy and what price point are you looking for?  Are you in town now?  Are you coming for the season, or for part of the season?  If I had to go with only one ski, it would be my pre-rockered Gotomas.  Last season I used the Goats and a Mythic Rider.  This season it will be an S7 and the Goats.  I have a friend who told me he's looking to sell his super 7s.  These might be good for you and available at a reasonable price.  I loved the Mythics, but not enough to keep them.  I regret letting them go now.  The way this winter is shaping up you might not want anything under 85 mm.  At least I hope that's how it will be.    

post #4 of 29
Thread Starter 

My goats are pre rockered. I love them as a moderate powder ski.  Yes, the B5 Metrons are a carving beast, but stiff in the bumps.  There is nothing I dislike about either, just looking for what is the new best thing. . . . price not a concern.  I've heard great things about Blizzard. Perhaps I shoud get both the Answer and the 8.7?

 

Not in town yet. I'll be in town in January, then if I like the moutain, at least 7 days a month through closing day.  I ski at least 1 full week per month, every month there is snow.  I usually get started in late November, but due to a bussiness project, won't get started till the begining of Jan this year.

post #5 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottWeber View Post
 just looking for what is the new best thing. . . . price not a concern. 

Then you have solved your problem. Seriously. Buy a pair of Kastle MX 88's in 184 for frontside to light pow duties, then a pair of DPS 112RP's, 190, flex 3, for real pow with a emphasis on trees/tight places, or Lhasa Pow's in 196 for real pow with an emphasis on steeps and speed.

 
These each will set you back north of 1K, each are the best at their respective tasks. (Well, OK, a case could be made for custom Folsoms in place of the Lhasa's, what's another $300 at this point?)

post #6 of 29

As long as you'll be in Jackson for a good period of time, and price is not too much of an obstacle, why not demo new gear when you arrive? The local shops will have the newest, coolest, gnarliest, and bestest stuff, and will probably mount bindings on your new boards overnight.

 

FWIW, I skied Jackson, (poorly,) on a pair of  178 Mythic Riders and enjoyed every minute. Picked up a pair of the '09 Goats in 183 last season and loved them too. Then again, you're a linebacker, I more closely resemble a stork.

 

 

post #7 of 29

What do you mean, IF I like the mountain?  This ought to be interesting.  Try a stronger word, like epiphany (a sudden intuitive leap of understanding, especially through an ordinary but striking occurrence).

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottWeber View Post

 

Not in town yet. I'll be in town in January, then if I like the moutain, at least 7 days a month through closing day. 

 

Your Goats are only 2 years old?  Metrons can't be that much older either.  Ski the mountain with your current quiver, demo some skis at Teton Sports, and then make an informed decision.  Demo'ing skis is fun all by itself, actually.

post #8 of 29

I've always enjoyed the diversity of thought on the best daily driver at JH existing among the 3 Epic posters who ski there each day.

 

Tetonpwdrjunkie has shared his thoughts and takes a middle of the road view with respect to width.

 

Bob Peters is using the new Head Titan so he's the minimalist width

 

Skiing in Jackson skis the Atomic Atlas therefore skis to the max width.

 

Go figure! What a nice problem to solve. The Kastle MX 88 rocked my world there last year.

 

 

 

 

post #9 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottWeber View Post
 I like the steeps, powder in bowls, but love powder in the trees?  (But, I also need a ski that can handle front side, and bumps (which I used to focus on almost exclusively)).

For a single ski, something in the 98-105 range, mild to moderate front rocker, maybe a PM Bros 183, Kastle MX98, Elan Spire, Nordica Enforcer. For a couple of skis, move up the fat to a PM Lhasa Pow, Blizzard Answer, Kastle MX108, Prior Overlord, Volkl Katana, Dynastar HT, and add something in the 80's for weeks between storms. Blizzard 8.7, Dynastar Mythic Rider, etc; SJ's "Crazy 88's" thread has some nice reviews, also check out Dawgcatching's reviews that are constructed by width range. 

+1
 

If I were lucky enough to live where you do, and could only have one ski, it would probably be something like an MX98-style ski or an MX88-style ski.  I weigh much less than you, float isn't a concern in all but the deepest snow for me (at 155lbs, in good snow, a ~90mm ski has plenty of float in snow up to 14-16" deep). At your weight, something closer to 100mm is superb.

 

A ski you should check out if you can find one: the 2010 MX98 in 184cm. The 2011 is softer, a bit more off-piste oriented, and not quite as good in bumps. The 2010 is a true 50/50 ski that is better than anything in it's class on groomers, way above average in bumps, smooth as silk in crud, and has no speed limit.  Basically, it is the MX88's big brother, but with a slightly thinner profile, with brings down the tip flex a tad and makes it friendlier off-piste.  

 

If you don't care too much about groomer performance, checking out the Spire from Elan would be well worth your time. Excellent ski in bumps and any off-piste condition.  Also, at your weight, the Volkl Mantra would be pretty sweet. For bump performance, anything over 100mm is going to be a drag, speaking from experience.  Probably best to keep your "everyday" ski under that width, and get the big skis for days when bumps are filled in and not a concern (although there are a few bigger skis that are actually pretty good in soft bumps; there are also a lot of bigger skis that absolutely suck in bumps, so you have to do some research on that one). Good luck! 

post #10 of 29

Keep the B5's for those mini-droughts between the storms.  They are hard to beat for pure carving tools at JH when you need them in the occasional long pause between the storm cycles.  Others on the forum are more up to date on the wider skis, but my Blizzard 8.7s and Nordica Enforcers have served me well at JH.  But heck, when the snow is good at Jackson, skiing on barrel staves will still put a grin on your face.  Personally, I'm adding a pair of the new Nordica Fire Arrow 80s to the narrow end of my quiver, in hopes of combining the carving zip of B5s with a bit more float in the ungroomed, for those days with 3 inches of new.

 

Your are in for a fun year.  It's been a long time since I spent an entire winter at JH, but I still get back at least once every season.

post #11 of 29


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Living Proof View Post

I've always enjoyed the diversity of thought on the best daily driver at JH existing among the 3 Epic posters who ski there each day.

 

Tetonpwdrjunkie has shared his thoughts and takes a middle of the road view with respect to width.

 

Bob Peters is using the new Head Titan so he's the minimalist width

 

Skiing in Jackson skis the Atomic Atlas therefore skis to the max width.

 

Go figure! What a nice problem to solve. The Kastle MX 88 rocked my world there last year.

 

 

 

 


Bob peters skis his rockers more than he lets on. I have never seen him actually ski a carver in person.

post #12 of 29

Since you like trees, I highly recommend a 5-point sidecut ski (tapered tail/tip). Given your weight, I'd recommend the 186 ON3P Billygoat or the 186 PM Gear Lhasas, as they're a bit stiffer than the rest (S7s, JJs, Bent Chetlers). And, if you feel like it, add a big mountain ripper for charging open bowls at high speeds: Big Dumps, XXLs, MX108s, RC112s, El Dictators, Atomic Atlas, Volkl Katana, etc.

 

On days when your strong/fresh, and feel like charging steeps, grab the big mountain ripper. On days after the storms when the snow is all chopped up and you're heading into the trees to find stashes, or you feel like playing around in the powder (instead of charging bowls at high speeds), grab the Billygoats or Lhasas. Then you've got your B5s for old snow days when float/slarve/slash/pivot is the least of your concern.

 

I bought the ON3P Billy Goat this year, and it's absolutely amazing for bouncing around in powder (pillows, downed trees, etc.) and skiing tight trees. It's replaced some 183 old flat-black Gotamas. Tight lines like these at speed, linking 6-8 turns a shot is SOOOO much less effort than it was with the Gotamas - it almost feels like skiing an open slope:

 

14928313361161422241810.jpg150084_1343816854737_1810715942_646654_2413919_n.jpg

 

I haven't tested out my big mountain rippers (El Dictators) yet, since the open bowls at Breck/Loveland/ABasin have not yet opened, or still have a lot of sharks lurking - I'm using my old Gotamas as powder rock skis still.


Edited by Brian Lindahl - 12/7/10 at 8:18pm
post #13 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post

 

Bob peters skis his rockers more than he lets on. I have never seen him actually ski a carver in person.

 

You're killin' me here.

 

Do you remember what I was skiing the day I took this photo of your friend?

 

27JoshTimAdrian109.jpg?t=1207086617

 

When you and your buddies were all on your fat skis?

post #14 of 29

As to the original question...

 

Here is my 2-ski quiver for the 2011 season for Jackson Hole.  With these two skis, you can pretty much nail any condition you might run into:                                                                                               

 310080_isupershape_titan_sw_sp13_ffpro14wide88-e1267997799405.jpg?w=200&h=1125

 

and

 

head-jerry-104-ski-2010-multi-3.jpg

 

pxl.gif

 

The SuperShape i.Titan and the Jerry 104, both from Head.  End of story.

post #15 of 29
Thread Starter 

Thanks everyone. Great suggestions! I think I'm going to take the advice of bringing what I have and I'll demo what was suggested.  Any suggestions for a demo shop? I  plan to hire a guide/private lesson to show me around the steeps.  I'm the only one in my group who skis at an expert level and try to follow my own rule against skiing alone. (OB in BC,I suffered a stage 4 shoulder separation alone: You only make such a mistake once). For those who ski JH, any reccomendation on a guide/instructor?

post #16 of 29

Demo shops?

 

Teton Village Sports

Pepi Stieglers

Wildernest

Jackson Hole Sports

Different brands with some overlap

post #17 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Peters View Post

As to the original question...

 

Here is my 2-ski quiver for the 2011 season for Jackson Hole.  With these two skis, you can pretty much nail any condition you might run into:                                                                                               

 310080_isupershape_titan_sw_sp13_ffpro14wide88-e1267997799405.jpg?w=200&h=1125

 

and

 

head-jerry-104-ski-2010-multi-3.jpg

 

pxl.gif

 

The SuperShape i.Titan and the Jerry 104, both from Head.  End of story.



Edited story?  You shouldn't have taken that picture of the 94's

post #18 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Peters View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post

 

Bob peters skis his rockers more than he lets on. I have never seen him actually ski a carver in person.

 

You're killin' me here.

 

Do you remember what I was skiing the day I took this photo of your friend?

 

27JoshTimAdrian109.jpg?t=1207086617

 

When you and your buddies were all on your fat skis?



IM88?

 

I know you were on 105s skiing like a 10 year old at snowbird. dont you own the carlos now?

post #19 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottWeber View Post

 For those who ski JH, any reccomendation on a guide/instructor?



I would look up Chris Leveroni.  An old ski bum buddy who has been part of what I believe the ski school is calling "Mountain Experience" these days.  Whatever the name, it combines guiding with low key, expert instruction and (ahem) line cutting priviledges. I will hate you if I see you in his class during the annual Boys Trip the end of Jan!

 

post #20 of 29


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Peters View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post

 

Bob peters skis his rockers more than he lets on. I have never seen him actually ski a carver in person.

 

You're killin' me here.

 

Do you remember what I was skiing the day I took this photo of your friend?

 

27JoshTimAdrian109.jpg?t=1207086617

 

When you and your buddies were all on your fat skis?



IM88?

 

I know you were on 105s skiing like a 10 year old at snowbird. dont you own the carlos now?


Nope.

 

I was on my SuperShape Magnums.  One of your friends even gave me a hard time about skiing on such skinny things. 

 

I have a pair of Jerrys for this year.  Had the Jimi last year and the 105's the year before. I don't have a pair of Carlos yet, but you never know.

 

Yes, I was on the 105's at Snowbird that day.  That was a VERY deep day and even a curmudgeonly old last-adapter like me will happily admit that a fat ski is a lot nicer when there's like 20-30" of new snow.  As for the ten-year-old part, you should have seen me on my Titans today.  Huge smiles.  I might even have felt like a 9 year old.  (Everybody else was on fat skis.)


Edited by Bob Peters - 12/8/10 at 3:49pm
post #21 of 29

Hi, ScottWeber.

 

About your question regarding a guide/instructor... tetonpowderjunkie here on EpicSki does high-level private lessons and I know from experience that he is very good and knows the mountain extremely well.  There have been a number of Epic members who have skied with him and been very pleased.

 

There are plenty of others to choose from also.  You can pm me if you want additional names. 

post #22 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by John J View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Peters View Post

As to the original question...

 

Here is my 2-ski quiver for the 2011 season for Jackson Hole.  With these two skis, you can pretty much nail any condition you might run into:                                                                                               

 310080_isupershape_titan_sw_sp13_ffpro14wide88-e1267997799405.jpg?w=200&h=1125

 

and

 

head-jerry-104-ski-2010-multi-3.jpg

 

pxl.gif

 

The SuperShape i.Titan and the Jerry 104, both from Head.  End of story.



Edited story?  You shouldn't have taken that picture of the 94's

 

Good catch.  wink.gif

 

The i.Titans just arrived today, so I didn't have them when that photo was taken.  I was skiing on the 94's because I like them, too.  I know it's an embarrassment of riches, but I have seven pairs of Head skis that I ski on regularly.  Unless there's quite a bit of new snow, the i.Titans will be the ones I spend most of my time on.

post #23 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Lindahl View Post

Since you like trees, I highly recommend a 5-point sidecut ski (tapered tail/tip). Given your weight, I'd recommend the 186 ON3P Billygoat or the 186 PM Gear Lhasas, as they're a bit stiffer than the rest (S7s, JJs, Bent Chetlers). 


FWIW, Neither the BG or the Lhasas are 5-point designs. Owned the latter. S7's, JJ's are, not sure but dubious about Bents. Rockers not eq 5 point. 

post #24 of 29
Thread Starter 

Tetonpowderjunkie, please send me a PM if you have times open to guide the 6-10 of Jan.

post #25 of 29

I'm not so middle of the road as I used to be.  This year I am on the S7 at 115 and the Gotoma at 105.  Niether is exactly skinny.  Not as fat as skiinginjackson is running, but much fatter than my Mythic Rider at 88 and Gotoma at 105 combo I used for most of last season.  This seems like the year for fat skis.  I've only missed two days so far and have mostly skied powder and soft snow with few bumps.  I hope it keeps snowing like this all season.yahoo.gif

 

Best daily driver for JH I've ever had is still the Gotoma.

 

Bob...  Thanks for the compliment!  It means a lot to me coming from you.

 

Scott...  PM sent
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Living Proof View Post

I've always enjoyed the diversity of thought on the best daily driver at JH existing among the 3 Epic posters who ski there each day.

 

Tetonpwdrjunkie has shared his thoughts and takes a middle of the road view with respect to width.

 

Bob Peters is using the new Head Titan so he's the minimalist width

 

Skiing in Jackson skis the Atomic Atlas therefore skis to the max width.

 

Go figure! What a nice problem to solve. The Kastle MX 88 rocked my world there last year.

 

 

 

 

post #26 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottWeber View Post

Tetonpowderjunkie, please send me a PM if you have times open to guide the 6-10 of Jan.


You most certainly do want to ski some with TPJ. He's way cool, skis like I breathe, and knows tons of jokes to boot. Don't pass on the chance to share some turns with Bob Peters if he's around, and if you're extremely lucky you'll get the chance to get on the hill with SkiinginJackson and some of his kids.

post #27 of 29


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Living Proof View Post

I've always enjoyed the diversity of thought on the best daily driver at JH existing among the 3 Epic posters who ski there each day.

 

Tetonpwdrjunkie has shared his thoughts and takes a middle of the road view with respect to width.

 

Bob Peters is using the new Head Titan so he's the minimalist width

 

Skiing in Jackson skis the Atomic Atlas therefore skis to the max width.

 

Go figure! What a nice problem to solve. The Kastle MX 88 rocked my world there last year.

 

 

 

 


Bob peters skis his rockers more than he lets on. I have never seen him actually ski a carver in person.

Bushwacker,

 

You have been officially convicted of being "off your rocker" by the sage of JH himself. roflmao.gif
 

post #28 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Lindahl View Post

Since you like trees, I highly recommend a 5-point sidecut ski (tapered tail/tip). Given your weight, I'd recommend the 186 ON3P Billygoat or the 186 PM Gear Lhasas, as they're a bit stiffer than the rest (S7s, JJs, Bent Chetlers). 


FWIW, Neither the BG or the Lhasas are 5-point designs. Owned the latter. S7's, JJ's are, not sure but dubious about Bents. Rockers not eq 5 point. 


I consider anything with a tapered tip and tail to be 5-point sidecut. The BGs most certainly are (a strongly tapered tail), as are the Bent Chetlers. I suppose you could say the Lhasas are not, because the tail isn't a true taper (or full pintail). But with the semi-pintail and the tapered tip, they're more of a hybrid between traditional w/tip-rocker and 5-point sidecut and thus, have similar properties to the other 5-point sidecut skis, allowing the tip and tail to release easier than skis with the sidecut carrying right into the tip/tail.

 

Either way, if the OP is looking for ski that excels in powder trees, they all should ski relatively similar (some softer than others, of course) and are perfect for this application. Based on my experience with the Billy Goats, besides being absolutely amazing in powder trees, they're pretty versatile with the ability to hold a confident GS carve on a groomer up to around 30mph, and being perfectly suited making nice turns down pow, soft bumps, etc.

 

Their weak spot is providing you with the confidence that a race-style ski (i.e. XXL) will give you when on groomers at >30mph speeds, high-speed GS turns in chop/crud/chalk/windbuff, and SG turns in steep uncut pow (i.e. three or four turns down Breck's upper mountain or the Ridge at Loveland) - though you do want some tip-rocker (i.e. Wrenegade) for these last two applications, depending on snow depth, just so you can have an aggressive stance without worrying about stuffing a tip. The tapered tail of a 5-point sidecut ski means you have to stay on top of them to keep the tail from washing out at speed - which in cut-up snow is more difficult to do.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tetonpwdrjunkie View Post

I'm not so middle of the road as I used to be.  This year I am on the S7 at 115 and the Gotoma at 105.  Niether is exactly skinny. 

 

Don't you find the Gotamas at 105 to torque your ankles a bit on the hard snow days? I notice it a lot on skis that are 110+ underfoot, and although it's been a while, I do remember my Gotamas feeling similar and often reaching for something a lot smaller (especially the early season last year, which sucked!).

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tetonpwdrjunkie View Post

This seems like the year for fat skis.  I've only missed two days so far and have mostly skied powder and soft snow with few bumps.  I hope it keeps snowing like this all season.yahoo.gif

 

Tell me about it. While it's been pretty damn good down here, with at least a 1' dump on the way this weekend, you guys are having an even more epic season up there. I've been secretly wishing my parents were taking me to JH instead of Europe for our annual ski trip. eek.gif


Edited by Brian Lindahl - 12/9/10 at 9:29am
post #29 of 29

+1 on skiing/guiding with TPJ.     The 3 JH locals on this board are all awesome folks, I've had the pleasure of skiing with all of them.   I'm a moderately decent skier, in excellent physical shape (hard core cyclist) and it takes my best to keep up with any of them.

 

Let us know how the demos go.   Lots of fun suggestions out there.   Many folks are surely envious of you - lots of time to spend at an awesome mountain, a bunch of cool locals to ski with and show you around and some kick-a$$ skis to try out.     Beats the heck out of my day job!

 

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