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Base/Edge tuning for rockered skis vs camber?

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 

I've been reading threads about base/edge tuning and would like to hear more.

 

Examples:

 

What about skis with rockered tips/tails?

 

How much tip & tail edge should be detuned: camber ski vs rocketed skids?

 

What's typical for: SL, GS, all mountain & powder.

 

I've even read about edge tuning with varing levels of sharpness: sharpest under foot with less going

towards the tip & tail.

 

 

post #2 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowJock View Post

I've been reading threads about base/edge tuning and would like to hear more.

 

Examples:

 

What about skis with rockered tips/tails?

 

How much tip & tail edge should be detuned: camber ski vs rocketed skids?

 

What's typical for: SL, GS, all mountain & powder.

 

I've even read about edge tuning with varing levels of sharpness: sharpest under foot with less going

towards the tip & tail.

 

 



Had a smilar question here in Gear a month ago and received no answers except from Alpinord/Slidewright owner.  Basically to test them out, so heres what I did to my S7 Rockers 188 cm.

 

the conventional cambered middle I did base 1 degree and side 2 degrees.  Tip I detuned both edges 15 in. back measuring from center of tip to 15 in, measuring on the bottom flush against the ski.  I picked this 15 in by laying ski's on my granite countertops in the kitchen and finding visually where the rockered tip toouched/or ended.  Then I deturned 3 in.  short of this spot - which was 15 inches.  The tails I detuned 12 inches up using the same formula.

 

Have skied them 4 days on groomed and boot deep powder and chopped up powder and like them very much, think I will stay with this formula unless someone comes up with something I think may be worth trying.

 

 

post #3 of 14
Thread Starter 

Thank you for this very interesting reply. Curious to know if your 1/2 base/edge tune was a change from the factory.

 

I'm assuming you have others skis. Have  you tuned them in a similar manner: determine contact points etc?

post #4 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowJock View Post

Thank you for this very interesting reply. Curious to know if your 1/2 base/edge tune was a change from the factory.

 

I'm assuming you have others skis. Have  you tuned them in a similar manner: determine contact points etc?


To tell you the truth I don't know what the factory spec's are.   Usually tune all my skis l/2 the only exception to that was some Atomics which call for l/3 and I tuned them l base and 3 side. When I used to race 1 and 3 was my normal tune.  Now I never race (in a course anyway) and ski probably 80% off piste and like the 1 and 2 better.  Also normally don't ski a lot of ice if any.

 

My other skis (Volkl gotama 183, Nordica Aftrburner 178 I do not tune the same as I did kthe rockers.  These skis are tuned  2 side, 1 base and detuned back approximately 5 in and the tails detuned about 4 inches.  I always designate R and L ski and tune the inside edge always a little sharper than the ooutside edge.  If I damage an edge I will usually switch sides so the damaged portion is the outside edge.   Use Maplus Universal white most of the time and use the Maplus Green on really cold days

 


 

post #5 of 14
Thread Starter 

Pete,

 

Thank you again for sharing this info. I'll start doing the same and see how it works for me.

Great idea about saving the outside edge to extend the life of a ski. 

What edge and base tools are you using: dedicated edge angle guide or multi adjustable?

post #6 of 14

An alternative approach to detuning would be a progressive/radial tune where could increase the base bevel in those areas and/or decrease the side edge angle. I'd be curious to hear others feedback on the perceived or real performance differences between the two approaches.

 

Check out this TGR thread. Post #22 is very interesting.


Edited by Alpinord - 12/2/10 at 8:10am
post #7 of 14

Well to answer just one small part of your original question: GS skis and especially SL skis are often not detuned at all, at least those used for racing. The need for actively picking the turn shape means that sometimes you want them to engage as far forward on the shovel as possible and to use active pressure to disengage the tail.  It is one of the features of race skis that makes them "hooky" and not the best for a relaxing day of cruising around. 

post #8 of 14
Thread Starter 

Terry,

 

Thanks for the feedback. I read the whole thread from "TGR".

I'd also like to hear from anyone who has used radial tuning.

 

Thanks, Jock.

 

 

 

 

post #9 of 14

I must also say that to detune any board, or ski is not the way to go.  As for a progressive base bevel.....well, if you want to get to complicated, have fun! 

The edge should be sharp from tip to tail.  I don't care what some manufactures might say about their stuff.  I have seen some recommend to detune up to 10mm etc. 

I don't see why any rockered deal should be any different.  I tune those Banana Magnatraction boards, and I do them from tip to tail.  Same for those Battalion shape boards.   No detune.  Learn to use your edges.

post #10 of 14

I have to agree with Jacques here in principal, although I haven't experimented with it yet on my shiny new and unused S3's.

 

Rockered skis are going to ski short and when they're in a situation where the edge is coming into play (groomed surface) I'd think you want as sharp an edge as possible. 

 

When you're in deeper snow I don't see how a sharp edge is going to hurt (or really have any effect.)


Edited by SkiMangoJazz - 12/2/10 at 5:52pm
post #11 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpinord View Post

An alternative approach to detuning would be a progressive/radial tune where could increase the base bevel in those areas and/or decrease the side edge angle. I'd be curious to hear others feedback on the perceived or real performance differences between the two approaches.

 

Check out this TGR thread. Post #22 is very interesting.



Yes that is an interesting post Terry, thanks for the link.  And based on that not detuning, but possibly progressively increasing the base bevel at the tip and tail could work.

 

As you advised me recently the best thing to do is to try it!

post #12 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz View Post

I have to agree with Jacques here in principal, although I haven't experimented with it yet on my shiny new and unused S3's.

 

Rockered skis are going to ski short and when they're in a situation where the edge is coming into play (groomed surface) I'd think you want as sharp an edge as possible. 

 

When you're in deeper snow I don't see how a sharp edge is going to hurt (or really have any effect.)



 

I am probably a little throw back on the detuning.  When I used to ski on 205 straight skis and raced on them 207 and my short slalom 201's used to detune the outside edge but not the inside edge.   Yes jacques is right probably in principle but don't race anymore, only ski ice when I am going straight and go for all the foregiveness I can find.  Maybe a latent memory that says deep in my subconscious I can almost vividly remember catching an outside edge that was sharp and Klabowee.   Maybe.  OR  EVER look at a pretty lady you just passed and look back - catch an outside edge and really embarrass yourself while skidding at high speed down the hill and hoping she didn't see you fall.  Don't get me wrong I am not saying I have ever done this, just trying to resolve the outside sharpening/detuning question.

post #13 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete No. Idaho View Post


 OR  EVER look at a pretty lady you just passed and look back - catch an outside edge and really embarrass yourself while skidding at high speed down the hill and hoping she didn't see you fall.  Don't get me wrong I am not saying I have ever done this, ......

Of course not, that would be objectifying the woman and we evolved men NEVER do that!  wink.gif

post #14 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete No. Idaho View Post


 OR  EVER look at a pretty lady you just passed and look back - catch an outside edge and really embarrass yourself while skidding at high speed down the hill and hoping she didn't see you fall.  Don't get me wrong I am not saying I have ever done this, ......

Of course not, that would be objectifying the woman and we evolved men NEVER do that!  wink.gif



YES, and personally I would like to shoot the AH who made it fashionable to NOT wear stretch pants. 

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