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2008 vs 2011 skis whats changed?

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 
Looking at some intermediate ski options mainly for blue groomed runs in NZ. There are some cheap past season models eg head xenon 3 2008 available at L9. Sidecut is 118-71-103mm so I realise they're not a good option for powder but apart from wider mid section and maybe rocker which seems debatable what has changed over the last 3 or so years that would justify spending 5 times the price of the Xenon 3s? Hoping to ski 10 days per year but at 55 and just getting back into it Im not looking to do any tricks or jumps just carve some smooth tracks on some gear better suited to me than rentals. thanks for any help and yes I am getting fitted boots Maurice
post #2 of 16

I think nothing important changed overall in budgetfriendly groomerskis. If you can find a similar ski for your wishes the older ones are good enough. On the other hand, don't buy a ski that is wrong for you just because they are on a nice discount. The Xenons are okay, but not if you are heavy for instance.

post #3 of 16

There are plenty of great 2008 skis.  Xenon 3 is not one of them.

 

IMO, Xenon 9 or Xenon 7 is ok, if by ok you mean suitable for a beginner who won't ski fast, doesn't demand a lot of grip, isn't concentrating on carving/arcing turns and want's lot's of forgiveness.

post #4 of 16

Come to think of it, you are right ghost, this ski is probably too light for maurice. Are there any alternatives on similar discounts maurice?

post #5 of 16

 

If you have skied before and can tip your skis onto an edge to carve a turn, and don't really care about moguls or off-piste, then you should get these.http://www.levelninesports.com/Head-Ixrc-1200-Sw-Railflex-Ski-Black,

If not, then there's these http://www.levelninesports.com/Head-Xenon-Xi-90-Railflex-Skis

post #6 of 16

The XRCs are great and I don't even think they are that hard to skid either if the skier is not too light. Personally I'd prefer these over the Xenon 9.0s for 50$ less: http://www.levelninesports.com/Atomic-Nomad-Whiteout-All-Mountain-Skis (when only looking at the L9 site).

post #7 of 16

I agree, the 1200 SW is a much better deal, but they don't like slow and they might be a little more difficult to handle in bumps or off-piste.

post #8 of 16
Thread Starter 

Thanks for the feedback Ghost and Remco, Ive been offline for a while but was pleased to see the informed responses.

 

re your recommendations this is where it gets confusing, the L9 description of the X9s and the Nomads says

 

Skier Ability: Advanced to Expert: Skipping the blue runs to get to the black runs, but sometimes a little cautious when it gets very steep, or some hesitation when your buddy says, ''You just have to clear those rocks or else you're toast.''

 

Now after 8 days in the last 2 years Im clearly no expert but in answer to your question I was carving some pretty decent turns but control was a problem once the speed got up on the steeper blues. I thought that may have been partly down to the rentals I was on which were only 158cms .

 

So are the L9 level recommendations to conservative? Do you rate the X9s as an intermediate ski? Are the X3s too light and unstable at speed??

 

I'm always up for a challenge but could do without a knee reconstruction!

 

FYI I'm 6'1 and weigh about 185 lbs, reasonably athletic with a strong surfing background

 

cheers

Maurice

post #9 of 16

The way only carving good arc-2-arc turns will give you speed control is if you are skiing uphill.  If you arc turns from top to bottom without brushing, and without brushing you will be skiing fast.

 

I think the ski descriptions are designed to account for grade inflation and stroke the customer's ego. If the Xi 9.0 is an expert level ski it is for experts who don't ski over 30 mph.  And don't really care to arc high -g turns on hardpack, imho of course.  Maybe it's for experts who brush all their turns and ski moguls a lot...No they would want the SS Magnum.  Xi 9.0 is an intermediate ski.

 

The Xi 9.0s are too unstable "at speed"; if you are going to ski fast, then you want the SW, but the SW will not let you get away with sloppy technique, and is at a disadvantage at low speeds and in moguls.

 

The Xi 3.0s are not very useful, imo.

 

 

 

 

post #10 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post

I agree, the 1200 SW is a much better deal, but they don't like slow and they might be a little more difficult to handle in bumps or off-piste.


The second-generation 1400 (dark top sheets) had a broader low-speed use envelope than the 1200 SW.
post #11 of 16

Hi Mauricem,

 

I think the L9-site is a little conservative on those skis yes. I did not ski this Nomad-model (here is someone who did, even though it sounds a bit too good to be true: http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/81440/atomic-nomad-whiteout-or-fischer-red-heat), but I did test a few of the current models in the same series with similar 'stats'. Both were very forgiving and easy to turn and therefore absolutely not only for advanced skiers, though they can have fun on them. Experts in France seem to like the Nomads as nice for giving lessons but I doubt they use them for 'expert' work. So I am agreeing with Ghost again on the inflation point of view (since when does an expertski fail on a blue run anyway?).

 

For me the X9 were a little overeager to bite the snow I remember from a short testrun a few years ago. This might be a result of my sloppy technique and heavy built (230lbs). A subtle not-to-heavy skier will have fun on them I believe.

post #12 of 16
Thread Starter 

O,k, all useful info but before I pull the trigger  any thoughts on the Fischer Cool Heat 176 "http://www.levelninesports.com/Fischer-Cool-Heat-All-Mountain-Skis-Wfx-12-Bind", seems to be aimed at similar levels to the X9s but a bit cheaper,

 

In the Atomic Nomad series the sunburst caught my eye as it looks like a good compromise at a good price but aimed a bit lower. http://www.levelninesports.com/Atomic-Nomad-Sunburst-Skis-Wbind

 

As I said earlier I dont mind a challenge and have always pushed the edge in other sports but I did need a bit of recovery from the numerous spinouts from my last snow tripeek.gif

post #13 of 16

If you're not in a rush, of course, there's always seeing about demoing skis from ski area shop(s) as a way to get a feel for a ski you might like. 

 

Good luck.

post #14 of 16

just got back from a demo day in the east and got to ski a couple skis that were on my list and a couple that weren't.  i came in wanting to check out the rossi avenger 76 but it was never around, so i opted for the fischer motive 76.  what a ski, it wasn't on my radar at all, but had to give the fischer skis a try because my old rx8's were such an awesome ski.  conditions were mostly groomed with patches of soft and cruddy snow here and there.  the fischer was almost infallable. 

after that, i tried the 80 powerrail which was a good ski, just couldn't give it a real test because the only one available was too long; but fast and comfy. 

as well, i tried an atomic smoke which i really didn't care for, as it wasn't too quick edge to edge and smeered around alot. 

i had the misfortune of skiing a kastle 78mm underwaist ski; and i'm sorry to bash a ski this much, but what an odd ski?  it was one of the ones on my list and i like their tech pitch, so i couldn't wait to try it.  first, it's light, really light!  second, the tips wander everywhere.  i noticed that the ski had to run fast, but it's one of those skis that constantly has to be skied super fast to keep it under control; if your mind wanders, it will kick you in the back seat immediately.  honestly, i can't see how a ski with so much technology can only do one trick?    the worst part is that at speed and on edge, it wasn't better than any other ski i was on today. 

next was the salomon enduro; alot like screams, but not as agile.  again, a ski that was only available in a length that a little long for me, so i couldn't give it a real go at it.  it seems like more of a soft or powder snow ski or something you might want out west.  i did hit a couple patches of ice to see what it did there; needless to say it didn't do much.  it did kind of hook up on the harder surfaces and was stable and felt balanced, but took alot more energy to inititate turns (which i blame on the length).

 

had to respond because maurice opted for the fischers and honestly, i haven't skied anything overall as predictable as a fischer ski in my life. 

post #15 of 16
Thread Starter 


Yeah that would be ideal, but I live in tropical Australia where its currently 95F and new skis in the shops here are about 300% dearer than in your lucky country.

 

Our next trip will be to NZ where the prices are no better, I had hoped to get to Niseko or Utah this year and the plan was to demo and buy when we got there. I feel very envious when I read about the demo days that are available on your slopes.wink.gif

 

So its the risk of online ordering for me, which is one of the reasons I'm looking at cheap skis as if I don't like them I wont be out of pocket too much.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by matthew s View Post

If you're not in a rush, of course, there's always seeing about demoing skis from ski area shop(s) as a way to get a feel for a ski you might like. 

 

Good luck.

post #16 of 16
Thread Starter 


The Motives sound good but out of my price range atm. Any experiences with the Cool Heats? When I look at the comparisons on some other sites the Motives are more intermediate friendly than the Cool Heats which tend more towards advanced/expert which I am not.

 

Wateas 84s come up at good prices from SierraTrading but I gather these are much more suited to the soft stuff than icy groomers

 

I've never used Fischer skis but I have about 6 Fisher tennis racquets (my main sport) and the quality is top notch, of course that has no bearing on the suitability of these skiis to my abilities, terrain etc but its funny how your mind works at times.

 

thanks for the input skeeter!

Quote:
Originally Posted by skeeter984 View Post

just got back from a demo day in the east and got to ski a couple skis that were on my list and a couple that weren't.  i came in wanting to check out the rossi avenger 76 but it was never around, so i opted for the fischer motive 76.  what a ski, it wasn't on my radar at all, but had to give the fischer skis a try because my old rx8's were such an awesome ski.  conditions were mostly groomed with patches of soft and cruddy snow here and there.  the fischer was almost infallable. 

....................

 

had to respond because maurice opted for the fischers and honestly, i haven't skied anything overall as predictable as a fischer ski in my life. 

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