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need advice on selecting a budget carver

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 

i'm looking for a higher performance carver to replace my atomic rs8's at 154cm.  i've outgrown these skis skill-wise and am looking to pick up something that will provide some room for me to grow at a budget price.

 

some background:i'm 5'-9" 150 lbs and an all-around athletic type. i ski primarily in michigan, so my style is built around what we have to ski here.  short runs= lots of turns if you want to have fun.  so i'm looking for something really turny.  i have no idea what level to rate myself at, but i feel like i ski pretty aggressively and like to carve hard at speed.  i learned to carve from a buddy who absolutely rips, and he taught me about form/athletic position etc.  i think i'm a pretty cerebral skier, i'm usually looking to lay down that "perfect run".  i ski'd the rs8's until last year. i feel like i've maxed these ski's out.  i push them as hard as i can at the highest speeds they can take before turning into spaghetti and i still want more.  my buddy moved to alabama last fall and he left me his elan sx pro 165's. i ski'd those all winter last year and absolutely loved them.  for the most-part i can stay on top of them, but they require a lot more concentration to keep them in line.  i had a few runs where i wasn't paying attention and they bucked me like a bronco coming out of hard turns.  i really like that feeling, though... like the skis have no ceiling. anyway, i can't keep skiing his skis, so i need something similar for my own quiver.

 

so here's what i'm looking for:  a ski that can challenge me, that will help me grow into an expert. i want to be limited by my own skill, not the ski.  i need something with a turn radius under 15m, closer the 12m the better.  probably something around 165cm. i know there are a ton of really great skis out there that fit this bill, but my budget is around $250.  i don't mind buying something second-hand, maybe a racer's pair of retired carvers, something like that.  i also don't mind if they are a model from a few seasons back.  just need something that can push me, as i'm pretty serious about getting better.

 

any suggestions on where to start looking? thanks in advance. 

 

btw- i also have a pair of icelantic pilgrims that i ski when it's cruddy, so i can be pretty picky about a true carver for when conditions are right.

 

post #2 of 11
Thread Starter 

anbody have any input on this?

post #3 of 11

In your last sentence you said you are picky but you also stated you can only spend $250. You won't have the opportunity to be picky if you have set the price point at $250. I am not being condescending with that remark. That's just reality.

 

If you are serious about getting better and want to be pushed, the best way to accomplish this is to get mileage on the snow and take some lessons where the instuctor will push you. New skis, regardless of quality, brand, or style, won't change anything you are currently doing.

 

The only thing near your price point for the conditions you ski and your stated goals would be this:.

 

http://www.levelninesports.com/Atomic-Drive-11-Carbon-Skis-Wblack-Bind

post #4 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoMan View Post

In your last sentence you said you are picky but you also stated you can only spend $250. You won't have the opportunity to be picky if you have set the price point at $250. I am not being condescending with that remark. That's just reality.

 

If you are serious about getting better and want to be pushed, the best way to accomplish this is to get mileage on the snow and take some lessons where the instuctor will push you. New skis, regardless of quality, brand, or style, won't change anything you are currently doing.

 

The only thing near your price point for the conditions you ski and your stated goals would be this:.

 

http://www.levelninesports.com/Atomic-Drive-11-Carbon-Skis-Wblack-Bind


maybe i didn't communicate myself clearly.  by "picky" i mean i'm looking for a dedicated carver, something with a short turning radius that suits the type of skiing i want to do and is appropriate for the terrain i normally ski.  i'm not "picky" about brand, age or really specific dimensions.

 

i think $250 for something like this is pretty do-able. for instance, i saw a pair of '09 atomic sl-12's go on ebay for $270 shipped a few weeks ago.

 

to your second point: are you saying that a skier can't be limited by equipment?  i realize more training and more practice will result in greater skill, but i fail to see how sticking with skis that no longer measure up to my skill level makes any sense.  the race 8's are a strictly intermediate recreational carver.  i feel like i moved past that type of skiing last year.   or do you believe that a great skier can ski great on anything?  i can work on my technique and get some training on my own, i'm turning to this forum for advice on equipment.

 

the purpose of the thread is to get some suggestions on models i can look for that might fit my style/ability and fall somewhere near my budget.

 

btw, your suggestion on the Drive 11's is right on the money. thanks. 

post #5 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoMan View Post

In your last sentence you said you are picky but you also stated you can only spend $250. You won't have the opportunity to be picky if you have set the price point at $250. I am not being condescending with that remark. That's just reality.

 

If you are serious about getting better and want to be pushed, the best way to accomplish this is to get mileage on the snow and take some lessons where the instuctor will push you. New skis, regardless of quality, brand, or style, won't change anything you are currently doing.

 

The only thing near your price point for the conditions you ski and your stated goals would be this:.

 

http://www.levelninesports.com/Atomic-Drive-11-Carbon-Skis-Wblack-Bind

 

maybe i didn't communicate myself clearly.  by "picky" i mean i'm looking for a dedicated carver, something with a short turning radius that suits the type of skiing i want to do and is appropriate for the terrain i normally ski.  i'm not "picky" about brand, age or really specific dimensions.

 

i think $250 for something like this is pretty do-able. for instance, i saw a pair of '09 atomic sl-12's go on ebay for $270 shipped a few weeks ago.

 

to your second point: are you saying that a skier can't be limited by equipment?  i realize more training and more practice will result in greater skill, but i fail to see how sticking with skis that no longer measure up to my skill level makes any sense.  the race 8's are a strictly intermediate recreational carver.  i feel like i moved past that type of skiing last year.   or do you believe that a great skier can ski great on anything?  i can work on my technique and get some training on my own, i'm turning to this forum for advice on equipment.

 

the purpose of the thread is to get some suggestions on models i can look for that might fit my style/ability and fall somewhere near my budget.

 

btw, your suggestion on the Drive 11's is right on the money. thanks. 

 
 
post #6 of 11

"to your second point: are you saying that a skier can't be limited by equipment?"

 

No, but I guess it also all depends on what you are trying to accomplish. We also need to keep in mind that being limited goes both ways--someone who is on too stiff, too long a ski for their stats or preferences and speed is going to be just as limited as someone on too soft or too short a ski. Both will find they have a lot of trouble making use of the ski as it was intended to be used because it won't be used in the performance/skill envelope for which it was designed. The result will be a ski that can be 'used' but not used effectively.

 

I am not an expert skier and there are plenty of skiers here who could run circles around me in a NASTAR course or in moguls. I have no ego to brood. But I know enough and have enough experience and coaching to understand that a new ski is not going to do anything to make you a better skier. You will still be performing the same movement patterns on the new ski that you were the old one. Whether the new ski is best suited to your current movements and goals is something that can only be determined by you, once you get on them. But you will still ski them the way skied the prior pair. Developing these new patterns and skills typically only come through coaching or lessons. Nobody just decides to stand on a ski differently or apply pressure in different places. It's when someone looks at you and tells you what you should be doing as opposed to what you are doing now that you typically make adjustments. Old habits(and bad ones) are very hard to unlearn.

 

I know this sounds pretty anal and all but I am saying this as there are a lot of new skiers here asking for ski recommendations. In short, a new ski may make your life a little easier but no ski is going to make you a better skier. If the goal is to ski  faster and more assertively, with more control, and do so efficiently and safely, the best thing to do is take lessons with your current skis. After a while you will know what's holding you back(if it's equipment or technique) and what kind of ski you should be buying. The alternative is the risk of wasting money on new skis can't be used as they were intended. This isn't directed at you but IMO it's best to leave the ego at the door when buying new skis. For a lot of skiers, stiffer and more aggressive does not always mean better--in many cases, it can mean the opposite.

 

And that's my $.02 on these types of ski questions that get asked here.

post #7 of 11
Thread Starter 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoMan View Post

"to your second point: are you saying that a skier can't be limited by equipment?"

 

No, but I guess it also all depends on what you are trying to accomplish. We also need to keep in mind that being limited goes both ways--someone who is on too stiff, too long a ski for their stats or preferences and speed is going to be just as limited as someone on too soft or too short a ski. Both will find they have a lot of trouble making use of the ski as it was intended to be used because it won't be used in the performance/skill envelope for which it was designed. The result will be a ski that can be 'used' but not used effectively.

 

I am not an expert skier and there are plenty of skiers here who could run circles around me in a NASTAR course or in moguls. I have no ego to brood. But I know enough and have enough experience and coaching to understand that a new ski is not going to do anything to make you a better skier. You will still be performing the same movement patterns on the new ski that you were the old one. Whether the new ski is best suited to your current movements and goals is something that can only be determined by you, once you get on them. But you will still ski them the way skied the prior pair. Developing these new patterns and skills typically only come through coaching or lessons. Nobody just decides to stand on a ski differently or apply pressure in different places. It's when someone looks at you and tells you what you should be doing as opposed to what you are doing now that you typically make adjustments. Old habits(and bad ones) are very hard to unlearn.

 

I know this sounds pretty anal and all but I am saying this as there are a lot of new skiers here asking for ski recommendations. In short, a new ski may make your life a little easier but no ski is going to make you a better skier. If the goal is to ski  faster and more assertively, with more control, and do so efficiently and safely, the best thing to do is take lessons with your current skis. After a while you will know what's holding you back(if it's equipment or technique) and what kind of ski you should be buying. The alternative is the risk of wasting money on new skis can't be used as they were intended. This isn't directed at you but IMO it's best to leave the ego at the door when buying new skis. For a lot of skiers, stiffer and more aggressive does not always mean better--in many cases, it can mean the opposite.

 

And that's my $.02 on these types of ski questions that get asked here.


i do know what's holding me back- it's my skis. hence this thread.  thanks for your input.

 

anyone else able to recommend a few skis that might fit what i'm looking for?

post #8 of 11

Do you want race skis, 1 step below that, or something more recreational?

 

My initial thought was the Fischer RX8 or progressor 8.

 

http://www.evo.com/outlet/skis/fischer-progressor-8-bindings-used-2009.aspx

 

post #9 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tromano View Post

Do you want race skis, 1 step below that, or something more recreational?

 

My initial thought was the Fischer RX8 or progressor 8.

 

http://www.evo.com/outlet/skis/fischer-progressor-8-bindings-used-2009.aspx

 


probably a step down from fis spec racers.  i've had my eye on the progressors for awhile, but they are still just a a little out of my price range.  you're on the right track though.

post #10 of 11

You wont find many options online for nice expert carvers -- like the progressor -- new in plastic for 250 delivered. Buying demo skis is sort of dumb for this type of ski. You want your carvers new and with plenty of pop and plenty of edge so you can tune them the way you want them.

 

If you want something good for 250, your best bet is to buy local. Find someone who just had a baby or a knee go out. Show up with cash in hand and see if you can make a deal. If you want to buy on epic for that price you will probably have to wait until late February, march, april... and then see what available. Buy personal used skis, not demos.

 

But in reality, you would do well to talk to dawgcatchig or sierrajim and have them put a pair of progressors or something comparable on layaway and then shovel driveways or whatever till you can get them delivered.


Edited by tromano - 11/25/10 at 8:51pm
post #11 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tromano View Post

You wont find many options for nice expert carvers -- like the progressor -- new in plastic for 250. Buying demo skis is sort of dumb for this type of ski. You want your carvers new and with plenty of pop and plenty of edge so you can tune them the way you want them.

 

If you want something good for 250, Wait until late february, march, april... and then see what available. Buy personal used skis, not demos.

 

But in reality, you would be best to talk to dawgcatchig or sierrajim and have them put a pair of progressors or something comparable on layaway and then shovel driveways or whatever till you can get them delivered.


yeah, i'm pretty much ruling out new skis.  i'm thinking i'm more in the market for two- or three-year-old skis that someone has retired.  i've seen atomic sl11's and 12's, volkl racetigers and supersports in this price range.  these seem to be sort of what i'm looking for, but i don't know enough about them to be sure.

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