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Bending the Skis -- Active or Passive? - Page 2

Poll Results: How do you go about bending your skis?

 
  • 12% (2)
    actively
  • 12% (2)
    passively
  • 50% (8)
    both; it depends
  • 25% (4)
    a simple answer just won't do
16 Total Votes  
post #31 of 37

Well to me it really comes down to this:

 

As a racer his goal is to ski the course as fast as possible.

 

When I watch that video he skis the section coming into "52" fast, he skis "52" fast, and set up to ski the gates after 52 fast as well.  So to me, it is great skiing.

 

 

The fact the inputs, dont line up with what we consider to be the "norm" is irrelevant, becuase the outcome was great,,in this case a fast high line.  To me this is a great example of being "Creative" and getting outside the comfort zone.  Pushing the boundaries...we work the tail of the ski, we work fore/aft balance to our benefit...this guy just takes it to a higher level....kinda common on WC slalom really.  Ligtey for example is a master of it.  To me this is what "creativity" is all about...this is where "right/wrong" really do get blurred.   This to me is what that elusive "Creativity" people here talk about really is....using old wedge progessions from the 70s isnt creative at all, it is just out of touch. 

 

post #32 of 37

I don't think there is such a thing as actively or passively bending a ski. I think you actively tip a ski or actively transfer weigth from leg to leg on a ski and create enough centrifugal forces for the ski to bend. But as many have already pointed out, the bending is an outcome and hardly worth thinking about.

post #33 of 37

Without ski bend there is only pivot, skid, or even stivot. It is all about bending the ski.

 

Making short radius turns the skier actively starts the ski into reverse camber for the 1st 3 turns. Once the ski is loaded then the skier may let the pressure build up in the turn by just tipping the ski on more or less.

post #34 of 37

HDN,

Sorry for getting back to you so late, been out playing on the hill.

I really want to thank you for the compliment and I am sorry if my last post was a bit unclear. Let me try this again.

The ski bending is a consequence of our actions but is only a secondary result, not the final objective. So active or passive "bending" also needs to be seen through that lens. Why are we bending the ski? What additional outcome are we trying to produce? How should we go about bending the ski? My point here is that the words bending the ski are pretty useless without descriptions like you included in your post. Bend the skis more by tipping more, bend the skis more by pressuring the skis more, bend the skis less by not absorbing so much pressure, bend the ski more by blah blah blah....

See my point?

I choose to avoid adding that secondary outcome most of the time, Not because it's unimportant but because it is often less important than the final objective. Here's an example of what I'm trying to say. Let's take the three examples I just used and take out any mention of bending the ski. It would look like this,  Tip the skis more, press on the skis more. absorb less pressure.

All convey the same ideas but don't include any mention of the intermediate outcomes like more / less outside foot load bearing, more / less ski bend, or even more / less edge purchase. Don't get me wrong, I will discuss all of those intermediate outcomes at some point but only with students who get the point that those outcomes occur and are feedback we might experience while trying to acheive the greater objective.

post #35 of 37
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post

HDN,

Sorry for getting back to you so late, been out playing on the hill.

I really want to thank you for the compliment and I am sorry if my last post was a bit unclear. Let me try this again.

The ski bending is a consequence of our actions but is only a secondary result, not the final objective. So active or passive "bending" also needs to be seen through that lens. Why are we bending the ski? What additional outcome are we trying to produce? How should we go about bending the ski? My point here is that the words bending the ski are pretty useless without descriptions like you included in your post. Bend the skis more by tipping more, bend the skis more by pressuring the skis more, bend the skis less by not absorbing so much pressure, bend the ski more by blah blah blah....

See my point?

I choose to avoid adding that secondary outcome most of the time, Not because it's unimportant but because it is often less important than the final objective. Here's an example of what I'm trying to say. Let's take the three examples I just used and take out any mention of bending the ski. It would look like this,  Tip the skis more, press on the skis more. absorb less pressure.

All convey the same ideas but don't include any mention of the intermediate outcomes like more / less outside foot load bearing, more / less ski bend, or even more / less edge purchase. Don't get me wrong, I will discuss all of those intermediate outcomes at some point but only with students who get the point that those outcomes occur and are feedback we might experience while trying to acheive the greater objective.

 

Thank you, JASP.  I think this type of approach is what I was searching for when I started the thread.  My goal was to figure out if people here focus their attention on the sensation of their skis bending.  I don't focus mine on bending the ski, but in my summer reading I came across the mention of it in several places.  I'm wondering if I've been missing something important.  

 

People focus their attention on different things as they ski, depending on their purposes.  Maybe it's line.  Maybe it's speed.  Maybe it's rhythm, lightness   .. or even survival.  Or maybe turn entry.  Or maybe the degree of ankle bending of the inside foot.  Or maybe the timing of the pole plant.  Or maybe speed control.  I shift my focus up and down the  wide-focus/narrow-focus scale all the time.  

 

I've just been wondering if the sensation of the ski bending is an often focused-upon sensation.  If so, why and when do people focus on it and for what reason.  MichaelA addressed this question in post #4.  But most have seemed to say no.  The conversation is interesting.  

post #36 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvj View Post

Without ski bend there is only pivot, skid, or even stivot. It is all about bending the ski.

 

Making short radius turns the skier actively starts the ski into reverse camber for the 1st 3 turns. Once the ski is loaded then the skier may let the pressure build up in the turn by just tipping the ski on more or less.


IMO its not all about bending the ski. To avoid pivot, skid or stivot only tip your skis and do not apply any pivot or effort to turn the skis. The only time the ski is deliberatly bent is when reversed rocker phat skis are made at the factory duck.gif.

post #37 of 37

Sounds good to me JASP. I always enjoy your posts and especially appreciate their directness and simplicity in tackling somewhat complicated technical issues. I was just making sure you weren't going to go all cryptic on us! No worries.

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