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Why twin tips? (without the park)

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 

Aside from usage in the park...

 

What are the advantages and disadvantages of twin tips?  I've noticed a lot of people are skiing twin tips as "all mountain skis" and curious what the relative merits are outside of the park, i.e.:

 

- Groomers

- Soft snow

- Hard snow

- Bumps

- Trees / chutes

- Crud

 

I searched a while for a similar thread, but couldn't find one.  If you know of one please feel free to simply link in response!

 

My thanks,

Neg

post #2 of 14

I'd actually be interested in the answer to this question, too. Although I don't spend a ton of time in the park the Twin Tips seem to be cheaper in the couple of skis I'm looking at... Any thoughts?

post #3 of 14

After starting on twins last season, there's no going back for me. I never ski park, btw. I found them not only fun for skiing switch, but I found them to be indispensable for getting myself out of tight jams. So easy to ski backwards out of any situation, and "right" yourself. It's nice not having the rear of your skis catch. My personal experience was that in switching to twins, I upped my game BIG time, AND found they were much more forgiving of my mistakes. Remarkably, I didn't crash once last season, and I have to give my skis credit for that. Demo some this season, and see what you think!

post #4 of 14

Twins are basically a flip tail that keeps going. Rocker is a flip tail that starts earlier, has a different curve, and keeps going. Any rising curve in the tail - compared to a classic square flat design - will allow more slip during the last part of a turn, so easier to release after the belly of the arc, easier to pivot or smear. That makes twins nice in bumps or tight paces like trees (or parks) where you can't always carve. OTOH, it gives them a slightly (or in your face) vague feel at the end that bothers former racers or skiers who like to carve a lot. Some knowledgeable folks like Sierra Jim feel that any flip tail has roughly the same effect on groomed as a true twin. Others, like me, disagree. In my case it's because I believe that the amount of rise and the point where the curve hits the flat seem to affect how the ski's side engages groomed crud or soft broken snow. 

 

Any raised tail will also shorten the running length, which will mean at the same ski length, less stability at speed, more maneuverability. This will vary according to the ski design; Stockli and Volkl, for instance, make twins that are beefy and fairly stabile. Rossi, Armada, and Nordica make twins that are more park oriented, light, and less stabile. Finally, a really fat twin will have a different mission - backside freestyle more than park, so in my experience, fatter twins usually make better all-arounders. You get the idea, obviously everyone will have their own definitions of stabile and stiff, fat and thin. I own a couple of twins, never go into a park unless I'm chasing my kids. Twins IMO are great for lower speed hyper manuevering on variable smaller mountains. I've skied big mountains and steeps in one of them (Mojo 90's, Whistler and Mammoth), found it doable but not my first choice. Did not like them in chutes, although some do. So in a sense, twins are more versatile than any other ski - flat tails or rockers - just not as good at a set of things different skiers value. Like speed or grip with flats, serious pow or trees with rocker. 

 

Finally, lots of us who don't hit the park still like to ski switch once in a while. 


Edited by beyond - 11/19/10 at 7:17am
post #5 of 14

Skiing switch looks like fun. So your advice would be to buy a little longer in Twin Tips?

post #6 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by lsfeagle View Post

Skiing switch looks like fun. So your advice would be to buy a little longer in Twin Tips?

Yes.
 

post #7 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post

Twins are basically a flip tail that keeps going. Rocker is a flip tail that starts earlier, has a different curve, and keeps going. Any rising curve in the tail - compared to a classic square flat design - will allow more slip during the last part of a turn, so easier to release after the belly of the arc, easier to pivot or smear. That makes twins nice in bumps or tight paces like trees (or parks) where you can't always carve. OTOH, it gives them a slightly (or in your face) vague feel at the end that bothers former racers or skiers who like to carve a lot. Some knowledgeable folks like Sierra Jim feel that any flip tail has roughly the same effect on groomed as a true twin. Others, like me, disagree. In my case it's because I believe that the amount of rise and the point where the curve hits the flat seem to affect how the ski's side engages groomed crud or soft broken snow. 

 

Any raised tail will also shorten the running length, which will mean at the same ski length, less stability at speed, more maneuverability. This will vary according to the ski design; Stockli and Volkl, for instance, make twins that are beefy and fairly stabile. Rossi, Armada, and Nordica make twins that are more park oriented, light, and less stabile. Finally, a really fat twin will have a different mission - backside freestyle more than park, so in my experience, fatter twins usually make better all-arounders. You get the idea, obviously everyone will have their own definitions of stabile and stiff, fat and thin. I own a couple of twins, never go into a park unless I'm chasing my kids. Twins IMO are great for lower speed hyper manuevering on variable smaller mountains. I've skied big mountains and steeps in one of them (Mojo 90's, Whistler and Mammoth), found it doable but not my first choice. Did not like them in chutes, although some do. So in a sense, twins are more versatile than any other ski - flat tails or rockers - just not as good at a set of things different skiers value. Like speed or grip with flats, serious pow or trees with rocker. 

 

Finally, lots of us who don't hit the park still like to ski switch once in a while. 


to be fair Mojo 90 kinda of weak say compared to a Amarda ANT.

 

I like twin tips because they skis better where I ski most of the time.

post #8 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post

to be fair Mojo 90 kinda of weak say compared to a Amarda ANT.

 

I like twin tips because they skis better where I ski most of the time.


To be fair, he's right. Never meant to be skiing out west in the Mojo's, kind of redirected plans. They're in Hawaii right now. And also right about terrain. Twins work well in places with trees, bumps, irregular terrain. 

post #9 of 14
Thread Starter 

beyond - Thanks for the help -

post #10 of 14

I guess the only downside to a twin for all-mountain use is that they can make it realtively easy for someone not used to them to find themselves skiing switch when that was not the goal, especially on steeper groomed terrain.

 

If you get lazy and in the backseat on a steep pitch and use too much rotation, you likely will suddenly discover that you are facing in the wrong direction and everything is moving away from you at a very fast rate. 

 

Other than that, they handle pretty much like any other ski.

post #11 of 14

There is another downside to twins in all-mountain skiing.  Depending on the sidecut of the twin (read that as lack of taper) the tails will get hung up in heavier crud and chop and deflect a bit when you're pulling high edge angles.  I feel this all the time with my Elan 999s and I also felt it with the old Nordica Enforcer that had the radically turned up tail (damn thing was almost vertical).  When the tail has early taper then it's not really noticeable.

post #12 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinFromSA View Post

After starting on twins last season, there's no going back for me. I never ski park, btw. I found them not only fun for skiing switch, but I found them to be indispensable for getting myself out of tight jams. So easy to ski backwards out of any situation, and "right" yourself. It's nice not having the rear of your skis catch. My personal experience was that in switching to twins, I upped my game BIG time, AND found they were much more forgiving of my mistakes. Remarkably, I didn't crash once last season, and I have to give my skis credit for that. Demo some this season, and see what you think!



if you don't crash, your not trying hard enough

post #13 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinFromSA View Post

After starting on twins last season, there's no going back for me. I never ski park, btw. I found them not only fun for skiing switch, but I found them to be indispensable for getting myself out of tight jams. So easy to ski backwards out of any situation, and "right" yourself. It's nice not having the rear of your skis catch. My personal experience was that in switching to twins, I upped my game BIG time, AND found they were much more forgiving of my mistakes. Remarkably, I didn't crash once last season, and I have to give my skis credit for that. Demo some this season, and see what you think!



you didnt crash once all season? 

 

wow I bow down to you.

 

.....Josh who crashes nearly daily 

post #14 of 14

Haha. Good points. I'll try harder this season. ;)

 

Maybe I'll have a yard sale for the ages this time.

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