EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › Stiff Boots & Rockered Skis, Bad Dance Partners?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Stiff Boots & Rockered Skis, Bad Dance Partners?

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 

I haven't really seen much on this issue and have been wondering if going to a tip or full rocker ski requires a different flex boot for optimum performance? Without personal experience, my impression would be that big tip rocker and a stiff boot would not be a particularly good combination.   Anybody have experience or thoughts on this issue?  

post #2 of 16

Interesting question. My limited experience is that rockers like to driven from the front, especially if there's also tail rocker. So you want a boot that lets you keep your CM forward easily as you move through variable snow, chop, undulations. Also you want the boot to help absorb all the irregularities. This is one reason I've switched to Dalbellos for soft snow. 

post #3 of 16

Boot flex is first and foremost a factor of the skiers bio-mechanical needs. A skier needs to be in the correct flexing boot, otherwise balance will be compromised. I personally ski a 130 flex boot on all my skis, in all conditions, it is what works for me. Everyone will be different, so always keep that in mind and don't get too caught up in the flex number, they mean very little.

post #4 of 16
Thread Starter 

I have an old school style and drive my (non-rockered) skis from the front, so I have some Krypton Pros.  They are not stiff forward flexing, but allow me to stay forward more easily and comfortably than a stiffer boot. I have always thought of the style as "hanging on the front."  I guess my real question is if that is the kind of boot that is best for rockered skis, or if you need a stiffer boot to control the rockered tips?

post #5 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by mudfoot View Post

I haven't really seen much on this issue and have been wondering if going to a tip or full rocker ski requires a different flex boot for optimum performance? Without personal experience, my impression would be that big tip rocker and a stiff boot would not be a particularly good combination.   Anybody have experience or thoughts on this issue?  


I think boot stiffness is over rated for everyone except racers or people who really care about hard snow turns.

 

The best off trail skier I personally know skis in 100 flex Il moros. Lots of other great skiers ski in plug race boots.  I Personally prefer as stiff as I can make it Krypton Pros. Everyone is different. 

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by mudfoot View Post

I have an old school style and drive my (non-rockered) skis from the front, so I have some Krypton Pros.  They are not stiff forward flexing, but allow me to stay forward more easily and comfortably than a stiffer boot. I have always thought of the style as "hanging on the front."  I guess my real question is if that is the kind of boot that is best for rockered skis, or if you need a stiffer boot to control the rockered tips?

post #6 of 16
Thread Starter 

BwPA:

 

So you do not see boot stiffness to be much of a help or hindrance for skiing rockers? 

 

MF

post #7 of 16

I was told by some boot specialists that more new boots will be designed softer and more upright, I think he said for the new skis.

whether he meant as in for riiding switch, I can't recall. I think an application for stiff boots is skiing heavy snow and crud.

 

I am light and ski 130.

 

Way back when I went from a 180 Rossi St comp to an 195 Atomic Arc RS and couldn't even turn them. had to go out and get stiffer boots. the feeling of an under powered boot sucked. but that was a while back.

post #8 of 16

 

I suspect that in general we'll see a shift toward more upright (initially)  & progressive flex boots. Hop on a pair of fully rockered or reverse camber skis (usually relatively center mounted) & just try to drive the tips the way you would a race derived ski. With stiff boots or with soft ones. Not gonna work the way you are used to. Interestingly, the stiff boots seem to make lots of folks just try harder instead of backing it off. Which IMO is part of why some long term skiers have a quick negative reaction to those skis. Not saying you don't want to be able to drive the ski however you want to. Just that as skis are evolving, the notion of a well matched boot is likely to as well. 

 

Funny to see this because I've been contemplating a thread on this topic & some similar thoughts on bindings, etc for a little while... Maybe I should do it just to stir things up :)

 

wrt to this issue, I want an initially upright boot that flexes from super soft to maybe "120" (and then into solid) at the extreme. My desires are specifically based on lots of time on "reverse" skis. For the moment I'm using SPK Kaos boots - but I can readily imagine better. What I can not imagine is going back to super stiff 4 buckle lots-of-forward-lean "iron maiden" type boots.

 

edit: sorry about the weird font size - ask Huddler....??? also funny to see davluri's post just before mine...

post #9 of 16
Thread Starter 


I raised the issue of rocker friendly bindings once before. I think bindings will be tending towards a shorter footprint, and include vertical anti-shock to allow for the increased flex underfoot, but that's fodder for another thread.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by spindrift View Post

 

Funny to see this because I've been contemplating a thread on this topic & some similar thoughts on bindings, etc for a little while... Maybe I should do it just to stir things up :)

  

post #10 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by mudfoot View Post

BwPA:

 

So you do not see boot stiffness to be much of a help or hindrance for skiing rockers? 

 

MF


basically what I am saying is just use what you ve been using.

post #11 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by spindrift View Post

 

I suspect that in general we'll see a shift toward more upright (initially)  & progressive flex boots. Hop on a pair of fully rockered or reverse camber skis (usually relatively center mounted) & just try to drive the tips the way you would a race derived ski. With stiff boots or with soft ones. Not gonna work the way you are used to. Interestingly, the stiff boots seem to make lots of folks just try harder instead of backing it off. Which IMO is part of why some long term skiers have a quick negative reaction to those skis. Not saying you don't want to be able to drive the ski however you want to. Just that as skis are evolving, the notion of a well matched boot is likely to as well. 

 

Funny to see this because I've been contemplating a thread on this topic & some similar thoughts on bindings, etc for a little while... Maybe I should do it just to stir things up :)

 

wrt to this issue, I want an initially upright boot that flexes from super soft to maybe "120" (and then into solid) at the extreme. My desires are specifically based on lots of time on "reverse" skis. For the moment I'm using SPK Kaos boots - but I can readily imagine better. What I can not imagine is going back to super stiff 4 buckle lots-of-forward-lean "iron maiden" type boots.

 

edit: sorry about the weird font size - ask Huddler....??? also funny to see davluri's post just before mine...


interestingly enough the reason I like Rockered ski is you can really drive the tips in variable snow. just not so much on groomers.

 

 

post #12 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by mudfoot View Post

BwPA:

 

So you do not see boot stiffness to be much of a help or hindrance for skiing rockers? 

 

MF


basically what I am saying is just use what you've been using.


Thanks. I know you have considerable experience skiing rockers, and I appreciate your opinion.  Regardless, I anticipate that by next season we will be seeing several manufacturers coming out with "rocker boots."
 

post #13 of 16

My Dobie 150s love to do the rocker dance.

post #14 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by mudfoot View Post

Regardless, I anticipate that by next season we will be seeing several manufacturers coming out with "rocker boots."

 


You can bet on it. If there's a conceivable market share, even an imaginary one, there will be products to fill it. Meanwhile, keep in mind that you can vary your KP's flex without surgery. 

post #15 of 16
Quote:
Stiff Boots & Rockered Skis, Bad Dance Partners?

gallery_black1.jpggallery_multi2.jpggallery_red1.jpg

Quote:
Anybody have experience or thoughts on this issue?

If anything, the opposite of yours. Rockered skis = you can get away with anything you want because tip pressure precision is simply not required. Want stiff boots? fine. Want soft boots? fine.
post #16 of 16

This is a great thread because I have been going nuts trying to decide what works best also. After today I have come to a conclusion for myself anyway. I have EP pros. I first demoed a set in light fresh powder -14 with super soft flexing tongues on my FullTilt Konflicts. I used a #4 that is the softest they make. Its about a 80 flex comparative to say a Solomon boots flex that I also have skied on extensively. The bindings were Marker Jets Demo. That combo is what made me buy this ski. i fell in love and never had a better powder experience in my life!!

 

   On to the new EP,s I just bought this week. 127 under foot, soft and fully rockered out and some camber under foot. I decided i wanted a flex binding for this ski. I happen to have some full flex Atomic Neox 6/14,s on a set of skis I don't use very much. So I mounted them yesterday. Making 130mm brakes for these bindings took me around 8 hours!! But they turned out awesome with high grade stainless a hammer and a vice. I decided to try the #4 flex again since it was so awesome a few days ago. I have the #8 flex also that is 120 Flex according to Fulltilt who i called on Thursday to try and find out. The # flex varies boot to boot with full tilt because they use different liners making the flex different for each boot. A #8 on a Konflict is equivalent to a #10 on a Seth for instance. Also they said a #6 on the HotDogger are the same as a #4 with the Konflict. Confused yet.biggrin.gif

 

    The skiing today wasn't anything like the last time out on the demos. It was HEAVY powder cement. I mean the very next step would have been rain heavy. It snowed a foot of this crap today!! The #4 did great but I thought maybe the #8 would be better because the snow on the ski make the surface area wight 20lbs per ski I swear!! So god darn heavy those fattys are when snow is sticking to the top sheets! Im going to wax the tops next time to!! Bottom like is the stiffer flex I felt made things worse. The stiff flex made my legs burn more because i couldn't stand as up right as mentioned above. I went back to the lodge and replace the tongue again to the softer #4 and things got better and more play full. I'm 6ft 225lbs and I liked the softer flex on these rockered skis way more!! My Nordica jetfuels i only like the #8,s with as they are railing machines that dig deep trenches. The Rocked skis I have carve sweet also but in a different way all together. Interestingly there was a fellow on the same skis as i. I asked him what flex boot he has and how he like them. His were a 140 race boot and he liked that he said also? So go figure. I was right with him charging heavy crud at warp speed even with my #4 flex. I find the softer flex makes powder way funner to ski!! Even this heavy crap. The rockered skis don't require much effort to ski powder of any kind. They just float no matter if its blower or Heavy cement. I found my self letting the ski ski its self more than me driving them with the stiffer flex. I simply was guiding them were I wanted that seemed to agree with this ski. Also a more upright stance was passable that these skis really like!! When you take the effort out of skiing that when these skis start getting fun!! Driving them to hard seems pointless when you can do more with this.

 

   I'm sorry about the long read and grammar but this topic is something i have been trying to figure out also. I ordered the #6 flex also for next week. I hear that seems to be the all time Favorite flex with these boots. So Ill have an Arsenal of flex options just to make quiver and boot options drive me mad!rolleyes.gif Hears a pic of my setup. The weather is still to warm but will start cooling in a couple of days again. Once the snow conditions get better i will have a better take on how this setup is working. They seem to ski normally fun so that's great. Just need some better snow to really have some fun!  DSCF5825.JPG

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Gear Discussion
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › Stiff Boots & Rockered Skis, Bad Dance Partners?