New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Weighted Release - Page 3

post #61 of 69
JASP,

I'm generally in agreement with what you say above. There are lots of individual events (some sequential, some parallel) taking place in any given technique and it's worthwhile for any instructor/coach to know exactly what those events are, and when exactly they happen.

Something we've never really talked about is the difference between a "technique" and a "movement pattern". As I see it, a technique is a specific collection of movement patterns applied in a given timing pattern. This makes it easy for me to differentiate between things like a White Pass Turn and PWT as well as many other concepts in frequent dispute.

I think it's the list of specific elements and specific timings for each particular "Named Pattern" (techniques in particular) that cause so many debates around here. Even when participants are debating Outcomes, we're generally deriving our vastly different perceived/expected outcomes because we've not actually agreed on the specific inputs we're evaluating that Pattern with.

I suspect many hotly contested ideas are only contested because the advocates know (and/or simply execute) the correct movements and timings to make them work well while opponents of the idea don't know (or don't execute) the correct movements/timings to make it work as others are claiming. Unfortunately, each time we try to analyze a pattern and spell out exactly what to move and exactly when to move it ... someone cries, "Too Complicated!!!" and we revert once more to simplistic (and inaccurate/incomplete) descriptions.

Personally, I like to see descriptions specific enough to "see in my head" exactly what to do. I can then go out and execute the maneuver/technique on-snow and it will work as expected.

.ma
post #62 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post

The term is not vague at all if you just consider the plain English meaning.  The ski edge is released from the turn, as can be done by untipping the ski so that the plane of the ski is the plane of the slope.  The ski is weighted, as in you do not use any unweighting.  What could be simpler?



That is pritty simple. But how do you measure unweighting? If I weight 90kg and my weight is so to speak doubled due to turn forces when I release the old turn that extra 90kg will have to go somewhere. Right? And lets say for the simplicity of things that Im 100% on my outside ski. So will I so to speak weight less than 90kg at edge change or not? Does the weighted relese consept apply all the way down to 1kg or does it stop at 90kg or is it somewhere in between?

post #63 of 69

Weight = force of gravity pushing down (in your case about 900 Newtons). 

Your ski is not unweighted when the force pushing the ski into the sloped snow is 900 Newtons times the cosine of the angle of the slope.

 

The turning force (90 times velocity squared divided by turn radius) is along the slope and has no into the slope component.

 

The term is unweighted, not unloaded.

 

 

post #64 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatoldman View Post

Rusty,

 

When you use the term 'transition to the new edge' are you referring to moving from the inside edge of the old outside ski to the inside edge of the new outside ski or are you referring to going from a right edge to a left edge? I can delay the first of these (outside edge to outside edge) as long as I want but once I make a release move my ability to delay going from right to left edge/edges is severely limited.

 

fom

sorry for being late - sometimes I actually to work the day job

I meant transition form one turn to the next turn. I prefer to see both skis change edges simultaneously for the most efficient turns.
 

post #65 of 69

I nominate Ghost to be physicsman jr. !

post #66 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRusty View Post

I nominate Ghost to be physicsman jr. !


I second.  It's hard to argue math.

post #67 of 69



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post

Weight = force of gravity pushing down (in your case about 900 Newtons). 

Your ski is not unweighted when the force pushing the ski into the sloped snow is 900 Newtons times the cosine of the angle of the slope.

 

The turning force (90 times velocity squared divided by turn radius) is along the slope and has no into the slope component.

 

The term is unweighted, not unloaded.

 

 


Even if you have an angle you are still pushing the ski with your full weight, its just that it is at an angle into the slope.

 

The turn force is relative to the movement of the CoM, not the path of the skis. As soon as you unweight the CoM will move in a parabolic trajectory.

 

IMO the skis are unweighted when there is only negligible snow contact, i.e. you can pivot them easily.
 

post #68 of 69

I am not the best technical skier and have not taught skiing since 1988.  I really think the term refers more to the advancement in equipment rather than advancement in technic.  I believe all it is saying is the with the new equipment, you no longer have to unweight to make a smooth transition.  I still catch myself unweighting between turns but know when, with pleasure, it is completed.

Maybe the term should be simplified to "Weighted Transition".

post #69 of 69

Welcome to epicski skeewiz!

 

Ok, check out this Andrew Weibrecht recovery. This is essentially a White Pass Turn, or a weighted release no?

 

 

Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB9DW5dBIVs&feature=player_embedded

 

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Instruction & Coaching