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Upward Toe Release (was Salomon Z12 Ti Binding Question)

post #1 of 7
Thread Starter 

I just bought a pair of barely-used skis that has a set of Salomon Z12 Ti bindings. Flat ski - no system. These are going to be my soft(er) snow / 3D terrain skis. I'm going to need to get the binders re-mounted regardless. For years I've stayed away from Salomons for complicated reasons that may not be entirely (or at all) rational, and that may be based partly on outdated "knowledge." Historically I've been most happy with Markers as a happy medium between retention / release. I had a set of Tyrolias that seemed to pre-release too often, even with a tweaked-up DIN screw, and I have a set of Look Pivot 12s that seem to come off only every February 29th, which makes me slightly nervous, although I've never had an injury with them. Most specifically, at one time - probably more than 10 years ago - I decided that I wanted upward toe release capability, and Salomon's didn't have it then. Binding manufacturers are strangely evasive and unforthcoming about these facts in their literature. Salomon's site says that this binding - at least this year's version - has "vertical progressive pivot", or "a controlled release for backward falls." Is that real upward toe release, or what? Easiest course of action is to re-mount the Salomons, obviously, but I might be able to move the Looks over if I can get a wider brake and people think they are really a cut above the Salomons. Thanks in advance to the folks out there who pay more attention to bindings than I do.

post #2 of 7
Thread Starter 



Shorter version: Do these bindings have upward release at the toe, and do people think it matters?

post #3 of 7

I believe they release in a partial arc, but not all the way to perpendicular. So depends on your def of "upward release." People who think it makes a difference cite backward falls and ACL's. People who think it doesn't also tend to think backward falls and blown ACL's are for intermediates. 

post #4 of 7

I can remember one high speed skiing recovery move where I was basically skiing on the tails of my skis whle doing a situp/crunch from a position that had my upper body horizontal from the knees back.  I was very glad the toe did not have an upward release.

post #5 of 7

^^^^ Bet it was racing or something analogous. I wouldn't want to release then either. OTOH, we both know that you were mm away from a phantom ACL. Yeah, you're unlikely because you're good enough not to allow one of your skis to skate forward or out, even sitting back like that. But your ACL was stretched right to its limit, and all it would have taken to shear is a very slight acceleration and outward movement, nothing dramatic, and whoops, ER time. Just sayin' ...

post #6 of 7

  Something like that.  I was trying to see which of my two pairs of skis was faster and by how much on the polished glass surface of Blue Mountain's Double Blacks (not real double blacks Collingwood double blacks)  after several days of freezing rain and not much snow making, just enough snow making to spray my goggles going up the chair so I didn't get a good view of the bump that knocked me off balance just before catching a lot of air off the second step/roller.  Batteries had died in the gps anyway so it was all for nought.hopmad.gif


Now that you mention it, I had that thought on my mind for a fraction of a second, and deliberately took care not to go beyond 90 degrees at the knee and to try to smoothly and evenly load everything, haveing researched acl and backward twisting falls some decades earlier.  Amazing what comes to mind when you need it. 

post #7 of 7

Salomon bindings are GREAT bindings!


Salomon has had what was originally called an "inclined pivot" in the toe piece of their high end bindings which was part of the "multicontrol" system and has been renamed a couple times but functions pretty much the same as it ever did.  The way this inclined pivot works is, in a purely upward motion or force the toe does not release (note: unless the forward pressure spring is compressed enough to allow it) however, when there is any twist off center the incline pivot is engaged and permits an upward twisting release.  So said another way, when the binding detects a twist accompanied by an upward movement it will move on a diagonal plane to aid release.  The beauty of the single pivot design is it's retention capabilities, which are demonstrably better than most others.  The look and Rossi bindings also sport the single pivot design however I do not believe they offer the inclined pivot feature of the Salomon.

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