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factory tune on Head Peak 78's?

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 

Hello,

 

I have bought a (new and unmounted) pair of last year's Head Peak 78's. Once I get my boots, I can get the bindings mounted for the upcoming season.

 

However I have heard bad things about the factory tune of Head skis. Is this true? Should I get my ski shop to tune the skis themselves before I even try the factory tune on the slopes?

 

Any help here would be brilliant.

 

Thanks

post #2 of 11

I bought a pair of last year's peak 78s and the base tune was about 1* consistently (don't know about the sides because I took a file to them immediately.)  This year, I bought some Icon TT 80's which came with a variable tune ranging from 1* to 1.8* which I'll have to have ground before I can ski them.  The bottom line is that Head's factory tune is variable ski by ski.

 

You can ski them first and see how you like it or you can measure and be proactive.

 

If your ski shop has an SVST pro bevel meter or similar accurate gauge, ask them to measure the base bevel at several points for you.  If not, search for "truebar" and "base bevel" on epic for an inexpensive way to roughly gauge the base bevel.  (Essentially, if you place a straight truebar across the ski and gently coerce it to the edge base angle via gentle thumb pressure or a strong magnet, it will rise 1mm at a point 57 mm across the ski from the edge for a 1* base bevel.  0.5 mm would be 1/2 degree, 1.5 mm would be 1.5* and so on.)  Measure at several points to see if the tune is consistent.  It may have more bevel towards the tips and some people like this.  That will hook up less quickly or from the other viewpoint be less "grabby" if it has this sort of progressive bevel.  If it's much more than 1* underfoot, odds are you'll want to have a stonegrind.

post #3 of 11
Thread Starter 

Why did you take a file to the edges immediately and what did you do to them? BTW, I am assuming 1* is 1 degree, is that right?

post #4 of 11

1* is 1 degree.

 

I took a file to the edges because I prefer to have all of my skis at 3 degrees side edge bevel.  That's not for everyone but when the surface is hardpack,  I like to lay down high angle arcs and this helps with edge hold.  In other words, I am a carving addict.  Although I'm usually on a 66mm ski in those conditions, it simplifies things to only use one edge bevel guide for all my skis. 

 

Many skiers are quite  happy with 1 degree base and 1 or 2 degrees side, so please don't take my comment as a suggestion that you go straight to 3 degrees.  I mentioned it only to explain why I didn't measure the factory tune side bevel.

post #5 of 11
Thread Starter 

So for all purpose mode, 1* base and 2* side is a good starting point and adjust from there?

post #6 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booya View Post

So for all purpose mode, 1* base and 2* side is a good starting point and adjust from there?



That's right Booya.  It is best to always tune a new ski.  If it's done by hand, with good tools, it will be good without question.  Most skis don't come with a "good" tune.  They are run through machines at the factory.  Most real racers, and really serious skiers will not use a machine for edge tuning.   Good luck. 

Oh here is a pic of some never skied skis from Atomic.  I tuned on them for many hours.

 

100_7886.JPG

100_7887.JPG

post #7 of 11
Thread Starter 

Wow Jacques, you are a magician! It is incredible that they let those new skis out of the factory in that condition.

 

Thanks Sharp Edges for your insight too.

 

A couple more questions: if I get my bases ground to a 1* bevel, will that reduce the base material significantly or reduce the life of the skis?

 

Second, if I start with a 1* base bevel, why would I want to change to a 1/2* bevel? Or even increase it to a 1.5* bevel? How will that affect the ski differently?

 

Also, if I start with a 2* edge bevel, what would happen to the ski behaviour if I either decreased or increased the edge bevel? I have heard increasing the edge bevel is better for harder snow but that's all I've heard.

 

Thanks

 

post #8 of 11



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Booya View Post

Wow Jacques, you are a magician! It is incredible that they let those new skis out of the factory in that condition.

 

Thanks Sharp Edges for your insight too.

 

A couple more questions: if I get my bases ground to a 1* bevel, will that reduce the base material significantly or reduce the life of the skis?

 

Second, if I start with a 1* base bevel, why would I want to change to a 1/2* bevel? Or even increase it to a 1.5* bevel? How will that affect the ski differently?

 

Also, if I start with a 2* edge bevel, what would happen to the ski behaviour if I either decreased or increased the edge bevel? I have heard increasing the edge bevel is better for harder snow but that's all I've heard.

 

Thanks

 



Well......a base grind is to flatten, and impart structure.  It does not set the edges.  You, or someone needs to do that after a grind.  A ski might be ground a few times depending before it gets too thin.  Unless the base is not flat from the edges in one third to middle, then don't worry about a grind. 

You would not want to go back to 0.5 from 1.0.   You got it.  Once the base is "set" you only touch it up with stones.  The base bevel is most important in how the ski handles.  It should be the same as possible from tip to tail.  Most ski great, and like a 1.0 base.  Some racers may want no base bevel to 0.5.  So a racer wants a ski with no bevels from the factory.  This way they can set them to their choice.

 

You will be fine with a 2 or 3 side bevel.  Going beyond a 3 side I would not recommend.   The side bevel gives more bite in the snow when it's tipped on it's side to carve.   If your not carving, you will not know any difference.   OH yea, you can change the side bevel, but there is only so many "hard" tunes in a ski edge!   Hint:  The more you polish with Boride, and Ceramic before you hit a rock etc. the harder the edge will be, thus less damage.   Polishing is from a progression of finer, and finer stones.  It takes a long time, but you reap what you sow.

 

I hope that helps you a little.  Be good.

post #9 of 11

Skis can continue to cure for a year or two after they're made.  The epoxy cure can cause the skis to cup.  If the bottoms aren't flat, get them ground for sure.

 

Regardless of the factory angles (or sloppy variation of the factory angles) it is best to have the skis tuned for your skiing style and snow conditions.  If you ski dry snow and like edge grip on the pack, try at little at 0.5° on the base.  That takes precise skiing technique.  0.75° is easier and 1° is the common base edge angle for a good reason--the skis are easy to ski and ski very well.  1° side edge angle is Ok for deep snow, 'cuz you don't get edge grip anyway and if you hit a rock it'll take out a smaller chunk.  2° side edge angle is good all-round.  3° edge angle really grips hard snow well if you know how to use it.  Most of my skis for my coastal snow have 0.75° bottom edge angle tapered to 1° toward the tip & tail.  I like 3° on the sides.  I haven't heard of any sharpening or polishing techniques that will harden an edge.  Hitting a rock will  work harden the edge so the raised burr needs to be removed with a hand stone.

 

Work hardening, also known as strain hardening, is the strengthening of a metal by plastic deformation. This strengthening occurs because of dislocation movements within the crystal structure of the material.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work_hardening

post #10 of 11



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoftSnowGuy View Post

Skis can continue to cure for a year or two after they're made.  The epoxy cure can cause the skis to cup.  If the bottoms aren't flat, get them ground for sure.

 

Regardless of the factory angles (or sloppy variation of the factory angles) it is best to have the skis tuned for your skiing style and snow conditions.  If you ski dry snow and like edge grip on the pack, try at little at 0.5° on the base.  That takes precise skiing technique.  0.75° is easier and 1° is the common base edge angle for a good reason--the skis are easy to ski and ski very well.  1° side edge angle is Ok for deep snow, 'cuz you don't get edge grip anyway and if you hit a rock it'll take out a smaller chunk.  2° side edge angle is good all-round.  3° edge angle really grips hard snow well if you know how to use it.  Most of my skis for my coastal snow have 0.75° bottom edge angle tapered to 1° toward the tip & tail.  I like 3° on the sides.  I haven't heard of any sharpening or polishing techniques that will harden an edge.  Hitting a rock will  work harden the edge so the raised burr needs to be removed with a hand stone.

 

Work hardening, also known as strain hardening, is the strengthening of a metal by plastic deformation. This strengthening occurs because of dislocation movements within the crystal structure of the material.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work_hardening



Oh no, I've been got again!  Last time it was a fully saturated base was not harder.  It turns out it's just so lubricated, you can't hardly scratch it with a stiff steel brush!  Now it's the edge hardness.  Look I'm no physicist, yet it seems that less damage occurs on a polished edge.  Maybe it because it's like; more lubricated!  It has no big chuncker to further catch, and gouge.

Go figure.  The smoother it is, the less trauma. 

 

Anyway no need to get so worried about a little cupping in the tip, and tail.  I see it all the time.  Unless you are going for the World Cup, then don't get too worried about it.

 

Good points from SoftGuy, yet to just learn, and have fun, don't get into .25 or .50 deals.  Like a .75, and a 1.0, well.............., you'll not notice.  Have fun.

post #11 of 11

I purchased my first pair of monster 77's from dawgcatching about 5 years ago and had no problem, I assumed that he tuned them prior to shipping. these skis actually had some delamination issues so Head replaced them. The replacements from Head had not been touched and I remember them being real mongrels so I had them tuned and they were a completly different ski. I have no idea what angles he put on them as back then i didn't sharpne/wax my own gear. I do, however, remember asking an edge angle related question here or at TGR and somebody posted a link/list of manufacturer  reccommended angles for a variety of skis. The Head Monster reccommended angles were 1+1. 

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EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Tuning, Maintenance and Repairs › factory tune on Head Peak 78's?