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Need Advice: Shop mounted bindings in the wrong spot

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 

Looking for advice on what to ask for in compensation for a binding mis-mount.  I took my brand new Fly Stars in to be mounted with my experienced Salomon S914's last week.  I had a lengthy discussion with the head tech about where I wanted them mounted.  1 cm back from the obviously marked Mid-Point on the sidewall scale.  The scale has a Freestyle point in the front and a Freeride/All Mountain point 8cm back, kind of like a k2 scale.  Anyway I went to pick them up tonight, and they were mounted smack on the Freestyle mark.  Dead center in the ski, and 5cm forward from where I asked.  

 

The answer isn't as simple as a remove and remount.  I did this on my first set of Public Enemies and the ski ended up breaking exactly where the previous toe piece holes were.  That time they were only moved 2 cm from the original mount.  This time they would need moved 5 backwards.  This also presents a problem in that the holes will more than likely be exposed in front of the binding.  With the white filler in the holes it will stand out like a sore thumb on the green and black Fly Stars and make them look like isht.

 

I'm waiting to hear from the shop managers tomorrow.  What should I expect them to offer?  I sincerely would like the ski replaced, but I'm afraid that is an expensive solution and they may not go for it.  However I won't be happy with a simple remount.  What do I do?

post #2 of 23

Demand new skis.  I wouldnt accept anything less.

 

What ever it costs them, is not your problem.  But having said that, it wont cost them what you think, they will be able to sell that set up to someone else. 

 

Plus the shop owner might think twice next time before hiring the 16 year old to do skis at night.

post #3 of 23

http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/360451/what-should-i-do

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Demand new skis.

post #4 of 23

don't cha just love it. same sh&% happens in bike shops and many ski shops.

 

everyone hollerin' about have it done at a good shop, support your shop, better be safe and do it at a shop, and then bang, destroy your skis / bike. been there.

 

know what, I do the important stuff myself, mounted about 10  pairs by now, the roll your own parachute concept to my way of thinking.

 

(in fact there are shops, Start Haus comes to mind, that wouldn't have destroyed your skis, you just weren't at one I guess.)my thought is to do your shop work at the mountain you ski, that's where you're likely to be able to pick them up and drop them off easily, and I think the work is better quality.

 

 that story makes me think I would have to put masking tape on the ski and mark the holes for the guys. I'm so sorry to hear it. yep, get back your $1K and nothing less.

 

I saw a guy simply checking the brake width on my brand new skis (they ordered the wrong brake) and he set my ski down on a coarse file that was laying on the work bench, then started shoving the ski around to try the brake. Last time they touch my skis. It's like they work on Hyundais (rentals and cheap skis) all day and when a BMW comes in, they can't step up, don't slow down and adjust their attitude.

post #5 of 23

I've had similar experiences around mount lines. I'd guess that it's less about competence with tools and more about transmission of information. The more specialized our instructions, the less likely they are to get intact from the person we talk with to the person who actually drills. Then multiply by the number of people behind the counter and add in a seasonal factor (everything's worse at the start of the season and around holidays, and yep, wish we all had a place and the gear to mount our own. 

post #6 of 23

It is bad out there, tech wise.

Learn to mount your own bindings. Learn to wax and tune your own skis.

With a small amount of research and some practice, you can do a much better job than

most of the seasonal backroom trainees.

 

I know of no shop than I can trust to mount my bindings on my skis the way I want them.

 

Period.

 

This I have learned over many years and many, many screwed up jobs from some of the best,

shops out there.

 

 

post #7 of 23
Thread Starter 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

 

(in fact there are shops, Start Haus comes to mind, that wouldn't have destroyed your skis, you just weren't at one I guess.)my thought is to do your shop work at the mountain you ski, that's where you're likely to be able to pick them up and drop them off easily, and I think the work is better quality.

 

 that story makes me think I would have to put masking tape on the ski and mark the holes for the guys. I'm so sorry to hear it. yep, get back your $1K and nothing less.

 

 

The shop is a reputable shop.  Yes it is the only one in Fresno, but the older guys that work there have been doing it along time.  Unfortunately, the guy I spoke with that I was under the impression was mounting the Kneissls, and that filled out the work order, didn't ultimately do the work on them.  I've been in the shop at the hill, I most definately wouldn't trust them to do the work.  Or the kid that was behind the counter when I went to pick them up for that matter

 

I actually did mask my BarHoppers last year where I wanted them mounted.  Coincidentally, I had no problems then either. 

 

Sounds like the bias is leaning towards a new set of skis.

post #8 of 23

It's too bad this happened, as a shop guy I feel really frustrated when I hear this. Then we get members on here who make sweeping statements about how no shop should ever be trusted etc. People need to understand that mistakes happen, not that that is a valid reason, but IMO it is how the mistake is handled that really matters. The shop owes you a new pair skis, it is cut and dry IMO. In the 10 years I have been the manager here, we have mis-drilled a few pair and in every case the customer got a new pair of skis. This is the only way to resolve a situation such as this one.

post #9 of 23

 

Originally Posted by JDoyal View Post

It's too bad this happened, as a shop guy I feel really frustrated when I hear this. Then we get members on here who make sweeping statements about how no shop should ever be trusted etc. People need to understand that mistakes happen, not that that is a valid reason, but IMO it is how the mistake is handled that really matters.


I agree with JDoyal

Having run a major ski shop in Utah years ago (with very few errors,) you have to accept that "shit happens," and it is how you deal with it that makes all the difference.

It makes me "chuckle" when I hear a group of people talking about doing their own work. It is something that one can do, if you have the right tools, but most of us don't have access to all those tools. And if you don't, there is a large opportunity for error.  "Rough" Example; If you don't have the right jig and have to align a binding by hand, there is a chance the binding may not be straight and therefore will not release equally in the necessary directions.(You probably don't have a release check machine, so you won't be aware of the inequity; unless you break your leg.)

When you look at all the different skis, boots, and bindings that come through a ski shop, it can be very confusing. Then you have someone that wants something out of the normal routine, that opportunity for error increases, not decreases.

For example, the guy you talked to gets sick and you had to have those skis tonight so someone else has to handle it, without your multitude of exact directions.   Yes if you knew this was going to happen, you could take steps to rectify it but you don't and can't.

That said, there are certainly steps to be taken to reduce the opportunity for errors. Hire back employees that are competent and pay them a wage that allows the expectation that they will do the job properly. Or..... plan on buying some replacement skis to cover mistakes and write off what you lose as "shrinkage."  Not a good option.    

post #10 of 23

can't argue the fact of life is that things happen, but in the category of how mistakes are handled, it seems that the shop did not immediatey pick up the ball after the fumble (mistake) and offer to replace the skis.

 

Shop owners ("on here") have not exactly said that they put in time on the floor and at the workbench just looking over shoulders and assuring that their less experienced help gets it right. JD and TS, are you the hands on kind of shop owner? And for perspective, say it happened in your shop, how would you "handle" it? Or is there a code like police and doctors?

 

^^^thou shalt not chucklesmile.gif if you haven't seen the work, if you please.

 

As I recall, back in the day, it was pretty easy to find a shop owner actually in his store, milling around, mixing with the customers, checking on important work like thousand dollar skis. Any more, it's pretty rare, though I know of several, which is awesome.

post #11 of 23
Thread Starter 

Whelp.  No new skis.  It turned into a he said she said battle.  Shop tech insists they were mounted right where we discussed.  Obviously I know where I wanted them and wouldn't have told him otherwise, and I was extra specific about which line we were measuring off of during the drop off.  Even had him verify when he wrote it down.  All they will do is remount them...5 cm back, and plugging the holes with red plugs (the Kneissl lettering and sidewalls are red).  I'll probably put stickers over them. :(

 

Even if I talked them into new skis, I would have had to wait for a new set to be imported from Austria.  I didnt want to wait for that either.

post #12 of 23

Offer to take the issue to the local TV station.  You'll get new skis.

post #13 of 23

I have not been paying attention to the varied binding mount setups on some skis.

But having told a shop manager how i wanted a mount a few years ago ( I did BOF measurements, and that dictated

a mount a couple of cms difference from ski mark).  Got the skis and they had been mounted right on

the ski mark.  Nowadays i would have my own mark on the sides of both skis with taped notes for dummies.

post #14 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by John J View Post

I have not been paying attention to the varied binding mount setups on some skis.

But having told a shop manager how i wanted a mount a few years ago ( I did BOF measurements, and that dictated

a mount a couple of cms difference from ski mark).  Got the skis and they had been mounted right on

the ski mark.  Nowadays i would have my own mark on the sides of both skis with taped notes for dummies.



In the future that's exactly what I will do.  Meanwhile, I need to polish up on my negotiating skills so next time I get a free replacement set.

post #15 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

can't argue the fact of life is that things happen, but in the category of how mistakes are handled, it seems that the shop did not immediatey pick up the ball after the fumble (mistake) and offer to replace the skis.

 

Shop owners ("on here") have not exactly said that they put in time on the floor and at the workbench just looking over shoulders and assuring that their less experienced help gets it right. JD and TS, are you the hands on kind of shop owner? And for perspective, say it happened in your shop, how would you "handle" it? Or is there a code like police and doctors?

 

^^^thou shalt not chucklesmile.gif if you haven't seen the work, if you please.

 

As I recall, back in the day, it was pretty easy to find a shop owner actually in his store, milling around, mixing with the customers, checking on important work like thousand dollar skis. Any more, it's pretty rare, though I know of several, which is awesome.



I am not the owner, just the full time manager that does 99% of the work in the store, that includes boot work, alignment, installs, tunes, promotions etc. The owner is in the shop most days as well, he handles all the other work LOL. If this had been my shop I would have offered new skis, we have done it before and I am sure it will happen again. I have personally mis drilled skis before, when you mount thousands of pair over the years, mistakes are bound to happen. If I have a replacement pair on hand I just grab them and make it right. If it was a ski that I don't have on hand I would do what it takes to get a new pair or what ever it takes to make it right for the customer.

post #16 of 23

I would contact the TV station and see what they can do for you, here in Seattle we have Jessy with KomoTV Crime Fighters and they do a good job for the public and problems like this.

post #17 of 23

This is exactly why at the shop I work at we make a line with sharpie or tape, where the customer wants the binding mounted, and they have to initial it before we will even touch the ski.  Mistakes still do happen though, it's just life.  

post #18 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by FujativeOCR View Post

Whelp.  No new skis.  It turned into a he said she said battle.  Shop tech insists they were mounted right where we discussed.  Obviously I know where I wanted them and wouldn't have told him otherwise, and I was extra specific about which line we were measuring off of during the drop off.  Even had him verify when he wrote it down.  All they will do is remount them...5 cm back, and plugging the holes with red plugs (the Kneissl lettering and sidewalls are red).  I'll probably put stickers over them. :(

 

Even if I talked them into new skis, I would have had to wait for a new set to be imported from Austria.  I didnt want to wait for that either.



If you're skiing early winter in the Tahoe area, I hope you aren't taking those out first thing anyhow, or you'll age them in more ways than the shop.

post #19 of 23


Small claims court is possibly the answer.  It won't cost you much to file and have them served, and then the shop owner has to kill half a day to defend himself.  Assuming you have a copy of the work order with the tech's handwriting, you should have no problem winning.  Even if you don't, there is a BIG difference between a Park and Pipe rat and a freeride skier, and where they mount their bindings .  Assuming you do one and not the other, I would hope you would win once the judge is educated on the matter.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FujativeOCR View Post

Whelp.  No new skis.  It turned into a he said she said battle.  Shop tech insists they were mounted right where we discussed.  Obviously I know where I wanted them and wouldn't have told him otherwise, and I was extra specific about which line we were measuring off of during the drop off.  Even had him verify when he wrote it down.  All they will do is remount them...5 cm back, and plugging the holes with red plugs (the Kneissl lettering and sidewalls are red).  I'll probably put stickers over them. :(

 

Even if I talked them into new skis, I would have had to wait for a new set to be imported from Austria.  I didnt want to wait for that either.

post #20 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonrpen View Post

It is bad out there, tech wise.

Learn to mount your own bindings. Learn to wax and tune your own skis.

With a small amount of research and some practice, you can do a much better job than

most of the seasonal backroom trainees.

 

I know of no shop than I can trust to mount my bindings on my skis the way I want them.

 

Period.

 

This I have learned over many years and many, many screwed up jobs from some of the best,

shops out there.

 

 



I totally agree.  This is especially the case for me.  With all my ski tinkering and swapping, it is just out of the question to pay some shop 50 bucks a mount.  Fortunately, 80 percent of the time I am dealing with tele bindings, which have a bit more margin for error than alpine.  Even alpine and AT bindings often have a paper template available- they have a small library of them on TGR.  You don't need a big fancy shop to mount bindings, just a posidrive screwdriver, a drill (I use a hand drill for more control) some epoxy for the screws, a razor blade, and some good measuring instruments.  A tap can come in handy but isn't totally necessary.  I feel for those who do have to run the gauntlet and hope a shop does it right.  The last time I paid for a tele mount, it was about 30 bucks, and they mounted them about 3 cm behind factory recommended.  I am sure that most of the time they get it right though- heck, most ski customers probably don't even know enough to consider deviating from a recommended mount point.

post #21 of 23

 I had a mis mount on a pair of skis that, when you took the bindings off, the skis looked like swiss cheese because the guy who did the mount redrilled and redrilled until he finally figured it out. 

I noticed the mount issue because one of the holes was filled badly and showed out from under the heel piece, and upon further investigating why there was a "filled hole" on my brand new skis I was horrified to see three sets of holes before the fourth drill which was the correct mount.

 

When I brought it to the shop owners attention, he told me to bring the receipt for the skis and he'd give me store credit for the $$ I paid for the skis to get anything they had at the shop.

Since the swiss cheese skis were an impulse buy and I was not overly concerned about having that ski I was happy to go shopping with my store credit.

 

post #22 of 23


You can't count on the judge to know anything about skiing, much less mounting bindings, or having any interest in being lectured on the subject.  I was in court over a kitchen cabinet job: the judge said: "$18,000!! that sounds a like a lot to pay for cabinets", I knew it would be downhill from there. In this case I can imagine: "five centimeters! that doesn't sound like it would make much of a difference, a centimeter is what, like this big?." (holding his fingers 4mm apart), and there you'd be, but, but your honor....
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by quant2325 View Post


Small claims court is possibly the answer.  It won't cost you much to file and have them served, and then the shop owner has to kill half a day to defend himself.  Assuming you have a copy of the work order with the tech's handwriting, you should have no problem winning.  Even if you don't, there is a BIG difference between a Park and Pipe rat and a freeride skier, and where they mount their bindings .  Assuming you do one and not the other, I would hope you would win once the judge is educated on the matter.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FujativeOCR View Post

Whelp.  No new skis.  It turned into a he said she said battle.  Shop tech insists they were mounted right where we discussed.  Obviously I know where I wanted them and wouldn't have told him otherwise, and I was extra specific about which line we were measuring off of during the drop off.  Even had him verify when he wrote it down.  All they will do is remount them...5 cm back, and plugging the holes with red plugs (the Kneissl lettering and sidewalls are red).  I'll probably put stickers over them. :(

 

Even if I talked them into new skis, I would have had to wait for a new set to be imported from Austria.  I didnt want to wait for that either.


 
post #23 of 23



That is precisely why his supporting paperwork should include a copy of this thread!  It includes experiences of people who had similar problems, a person who had skis break do to the lack lf structural integrity because of a mis-mounted binding, etc.  The judge will read it.  Besides, Fresno may be a city but in terms of business it is still a small town.  The shop owner may want to spare the embarrassment of going to small claims court and at least settle for a reasonable amount of $.  The problem is getting around the "he said, she said" issue.  But if FujativeOCR doesn't freestyle, and the binding was on the freestyle line and not the freeride line, I would hope logic dictates.  Better still is if the shop tech is no longer around when the case goes to small claims court.

Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post


You can't count on the judge to know anything about skiing, much less mounting bindings, or having any interest in being lectured on the subject.  I was in court over a kitchen cabinet job: the judge said: "$18,000!! that sounds a like a lot to pay for cabinets", I knew it would be downhill from there. In this case I can imagine: "five centimeters! that doesn't sound like it would make much of a difference, a centimeter is what, like this big?." (holding his fingers 4mm apart), and there you'd be, but, but your honor....
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by quant2325 View Post


Small claims court is possibly the answer.  It won't cost you much to file and have them served, and then the shop owner has to kill half a day to defend himself.  Assuming you have a copy of the work order with the tech's handwriting, you should have no problem winning.  Even if you don't, there is a BIG difference between a Park and Pipe rat and a freeride skier, and where they mount their bindings .  Assuming you do one and not the other, I would hope you would win once the judge is educated on the matter.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FujativeOCR View Post

Whelp.  No new skis.  It turned into a he said she said battle.  Shop tech insists they were mounted right where we discussed.  Obviously I know where I wanted them and wouldn't have told him otherwise, and I was extra specific about which line we were measuring off of during the drop off.  Even had him verify when he wrote it down.  All they will do is remount them...5 cm back, and plugging the holes with red plugs (the Kneissl lettering and sidewalls are red).  I'll probably put stickers over them. :(

 

Even if I talked them into new skis, I would have had to wait for a new set to be imported from Austria.  I didnt want to wait for that either.


 

 
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