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Factory angles for Rossignol S3?

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 

Does anyone know what the factory edge angles are on Rossi S3's?  I figured I'd start with 1/2, but most of skis eventually end up with a 3 degree edge angle.

 

I realize this isn't a carving ski, but I still want to have fun with it when there is no fresh snow.

 

Also, do Rossi's generally have a good factory tune, or should I just start over? I know some manufacturers are much better than others.

post #2 of 23

1/1 I think! Not 100% sure tho...

post #3 of 23

Mike Desantis told me the side edges were set to 1 and that if I want them to have any grip on hardpack that I should tune them to 3 on the side edges.

 

He was also pretty critical of their factory tunes.

post #4 of 23

 ^^^You'll be surprised to know how inaccurate factory settings are, regardless of the brand.. There are concavities on the base of brand new race skis... Skis have to be checked with true bar and applying 60mm rule...

Get your bases as flat as you can and then go from there setting base and side edges...

I think, that 1-3 will be fine, but it's up to you.

post #5 of 23

I would just ski it as is and see how it works. If need be, I would have it ground and reset to 1/1. I wouldn't want a grabby edgy ski for a ski of this type. Why buy a soft snow oriented 100 under foot rockered ski and then put a 1/2 or 1/3 on there like its a hardpack ski? You want the ski to feather and slarve in soft snow. Accept it for what it is.

post #6 of 23

I would think the 1/3 would have little to no impact on soft snow, do you disagree?

post #7 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz View Post

I would think the 1/3 would have little to no impact on soft snow, do you disagree?



 

Yes. Well, in bottomless, it wouldn't matter but c'mon be realistic. Tromano is dead-on, why buy a ski like the S3 only to try to turn it into something that it just isn't... a carving ski? If you expect perfect carved turns from it you are going to be disappointed no matter what tune it has, if you let it be the fun playful ski that it is you'll love it... or hate it (if you don't like rockered playful skis), but try it the way it is first.

post #8 of 23

OK, I'm sold.  One more thing off my to do list ("reset S3 side edges".)

 

post #9 of 23
Thread Starter 



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tromano View Post

I would just ski it as is and see how it works. If need be, I would have it ground and reset to 1/1. I wouldn't want a grabby edgy ski for a ski of this type. Why buy a soft snow oriented 100 under foot rockered ski and then put a 1/2 or 1/3 on there like its a hardpack ski? You want the ski to feather and slarve in soft snow. Accept it for what it is.


My 2 issues with this are that I have skied new skis "as it is" and wanted to sell them after the first run.  Once tuned, they were totally different skis. And my first run on these might be in Utah, when all my tuning equipment will be in NJ. 

 

Not sure if there was a consensus here. They should be 1/1 from the factory?
 

post #10 of 23

I'll give them a call today and post what they say.  If it's 1/1 from the factory I agree that it would make sense to at least give them a tune to the factory settings.  Of course I don't own a 1degree side edge guide and may have to order one.

post #11 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz View Post

  Of course I don't own a 1degree side edge guide and may have to order one.


Same here.
 

post #12 of 23

Posted on Rossi's Facebook page and someone replied that 1 and 1 is correct for the S3.  As I said I'll call them later on in the day when they're open.

post #13 of 23

Talked to someone in the tech area at Rossignol and he told me 1 and 1.

 

eCommerce here I come.  I own three fixed 3 degree side edge guides, but I'll only buy 1 of these!

post #14 of 23

there is no downside to going to a 3 degree side and you guys are mistaken that the skis will be GRABBY!  Grabbiness is all about base bevel, not side edge bevel. Any ski can be sideslipped if the base bevel allows the base edge to be rolled up off the snow. The angle of the side edge is a moot point. A nice true 1 degree base bevel with a 3 degree side edge is absolutley the way to go.

 

All my skis have a minimum of a 3 degree and my GS and SL ski have a 4 degree side edge. NONE are grabby  at all, actually extrememly smooth becuse side edge bevel has no effect on grabby,.

 

Unpredictability, grabbiness, hookiness is ALL about the base edge. A consistent , non burred smooth polished geometrically correct base bevel!

 

Why not get as much edge grip as possible when you do have to ski  on the groomed. Also, there are times you ski a few inches of soft snow over ice where the x-tra grip of a 3 degree side edge comes in mighty handy.

 

I am not saying you are trying to make the S3 into a damn Race Stock Slalom ski, But there is just no down side to going 1/3.

 

Listen to DeSantis. He know what he is saying!

 

I have my Sugar Daddy's and Mojo 94 both tuned to a 1/3. Unreal on hard snow. (No not just hard,  even ice)


Edited by Atomicman - 11/6/10 at 9:29am
post #15 of 23

 

I respectfully disagree A-man, I know you know how to tune a ski, but I've owned the 186cm S3 since mid season last year, I know how it skis. 1*/3* might not be 'wrong', but it is not what the S3 is all about (it's no Mojo 94 or Sugar Daddy).

post #16 of 23

Thanks for the props! And yes I know that it is rockered, and not a MOJO or SD, but when the edge does engage on hardpack, I can't see any reason a 3 would not work better then a 1.

 

 Again, how slippery or easy a ski is to slide sideways (and most skiers still can't carve a clean turn) when your ski is off edge is about base bevel. do you not agree?

 

Secondly, no harm in trying a 3!  You can easily go back to a 1 side edge with no grind needed and it may be worth the experiment for the OP. And if a 3 was too extreme (which I doubt) you could try a 2 then.and then go back to a 1 . Changing the side edge is so easy there no reason not to give it a whirl.

 

WR if you are happy with the way your S3 skis, then absoluely leave them as is. But if a skier wanted to try some other side geometry that is reversible, what is the harm. (You remove minimal side edge material going to a 3 and back to a 1)

 

Seems to me it would be a very worthy experiment.

 

You must agree that what the factory tune or factory "recommended" tune on any ski is of no importance.

 

What is important is that the tune is appropriate for what a particular skier wants a ski to do for them.

 

By the way if I am not mistaken ALL Rossi's have always come with a factory with a 1/1 for years and I believe still do.

 

 Atomics & Fischers were all always 1/3.


Edited by Atomicman - 11/6/10 at 9:34am
post #17 of 23
Thread Starter 

OK, now I'm conviced that I still don't know which way to go.

 

I'll probably start with 1/2 and go from there.

post #18 of 23

I had a long talk with Terry (Alpinord) and decided that starting with the skis at 1/1 is a good idea, get used to them, then experiment.  As Atomicman said you can go back easily enough.

 

Terry even suggested the somewhat wild idea of tuning the inside edges at 1 degree and the outsides at 2.  Then you could swap skis left and right after a run and do a pretty accurate A/B comparison on the same run in the same conditions.  Of course this means you'll have different bevels on the outside edges as on the inside.

 

He says he's done A/B's like this and the difference between 1 and 2 degrees is obvious to him. 

 

Worth a try.  

post #19 of 23

Nothing wrong with a good tune. But does anyone think that major vendors knowingly ship their top end skis in some sort of suboptimal non-skiable condition? If you want to make a hobby of playing with bases & edges - hey that's great if you need a hobby in addition to skiing. But from what I can tell, the vast, vast majority of home and shop tunes are actually worse than most factory tunes.

 

If you got the skis to ski recreationally and not as the basis for some other workbench based hobby - throw 'em on the snow and ski and have fun already! If you know enough to feel the difference in the conditions you ski & feel like you want to adjust the bevels, do it. If not, just continue to have fun. See, not that hard.

post #20 of 23
Thread Starter 

If the snow were always soft, I would agree.  But on the East Coast that is not always the case. Even when conditions are good, you have to ski some crap to get to the goods.

 

When I KNOW the conditions will be hard, these won't be the skis I'll choose.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by spindrift View Post

Nothing wrong with a good tune. But does anyone think that major vendors knowingly ship their top end skis in some sort of suboptimal non-skiable condition? If you want to make a hobby of playing with bases & edges - hey that's great if you need a hobby in addition to skiing. But from what I can tell, the vast, vast majority of home and shop tunes are actually worse than most factory tunes.

 

If you got the skis to ski recreationally and not as the basis for some other workbench based hobby - throw 'em on the snow and ski and have fun already! If you know enough to feel the difference in the conditions you ski & feel like you want to adjust the bevels, do it. If not, just continue to have fun. See, not that hard.

post #21 of 23

Per usual most of your response is Spinner ridiculous!

 

Skis  (Yes even top end skis) come from the factory with all sorts of goofy inadequate,  inaccurate tunes. Usually with too much uneven base bevel and not enough side edge!

 

I quote  " But from what I can tell, the vast, vast majority of home and shop tunes are actually worse than most factory tunes"  The key phrase here is "From what you can tell"

 

Gapers can't tell the difference; this you are surely correct on!

 

Hobby? Right


Edited by Atomicman - 11/6/10 at 11:20am
post #22 of 23

Spinner I agree with the last two posts, for soft snow, it may not be an issue, but for us East Coasters having a base bevel that is 1 degree or less is essential, having bases that are pretty flat (a little concavity is OK, but not convex at all) is critical,  side edge angles are also very important.

 

I've been shown new skis with base bevels of 5 and more degrees.  That is just plain bad.   For a race ski, or a ski being used on hard conditions having it tuned by a top notch tuner (like Mike Desantis) right from the factory is worth the money.  Checking the bases with a true bar is a good habit to get into when you buy new skis, bad things come off of assembly lines from time to time.

 

These things are cranked out by machines and the tolerances are not something we should blindly count on.  

 

That said, going with the manufacturer's recommended geometry (in this case 1/1) might be a good idea at least at first, but I plan on tuning my skis to 1/1, not trusting that they ARE 1/1.  

 

Do you think a high performance skater or race car driver takes their new skates/car right from the manufacturer without checking and most likely tweaking the tools to get the most out of them?  I don't.

post #23 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post

Per usual most of your response is Spinner ridiculous!

 

Skis  (Yes even top end skis) come from the factory with all sorts of goofy inadequate,  inaccurate tunes. Usually with too much uneven base bevel and not enough side edge!

 

 


^^^ You are right on the money....

I was a witness of that right before my eyes..

Top end World Cup SL skis /BNIB - not going to mention names/ , never used came with like 2* base bevel and too much side bevel.

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