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SUVs or crossovers with manual transmission (imports)? - Page 2

post #31 of 172
Thread Starter 


Beyond- this is the car for my wife to drive every day... she just won't go for a truck....although I am with you on the benefits...

Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post

Get a stretch cab manual Toyota Tacoma and slap a camper on it. Interior has more room than the SUV's you're talking about, cargo bay has more capacity then the rear of the SUV's you're talking about, and it has actual 4 wheel, instead of all weather all wheel compromises. Not to mention it's a truck, so it can haul stuff in the off chance you need that.

post #32 of 172
Thread Starter 

The manual/automatic transmission debate-  I do believe that manual actually handled better on the snow, because it gives you complete control of what your wheels are doing.    A good manual transmission car also has all this modern electronic babying stability control gadgetry, so you won't loose much.  I love driving our manual CRV up in a snowstorm because I can apply and reduce power instantaneously with the clutch and proper gearing.  So I am totally with my wife on that debate, but unfortunately manufacturers have left us high and dry.  

 

BTW, I am wondering if you can order a manual SUV with something like a European delivery program- they build them here, so why not sell one to an american customer- of course finding parts will be a pain the ass, so maybe it is not worth it... 

post #33 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzn View Post

The manual/automatic transmission debate-  I do believe that manual actually handled better on the snow, because it gives you complete control of what your wheels are doing.    A good manual transmission car also has all this modern electronic babying stability control gadgetry, so you won't loose much.  I love driving our manual CRV up in a snowstorm because I can apply and reduce power instantaneously with the clutch and proper gearing.  So I am totally with my wife on that debate, but unfortunately manufacturers have left us high and dry.  

 

BTW, I am wondering if you can order a manual SUV with something like a European delivery program- they build them here, so why not sell one to an american customer- of course finding parts will be a pain the ass, so maybe it is not worth it... 


why not buy a used car? 

 

New car are the one of the worst investments you can make. The instant you leave the lot you have already lost 1000 of dollars.

 

Well taken care of honda/toyotas can last 200,000 mile plus!

post #34 of 172

Here are the cars I can think of off hand that you can get in stick and AWD, although they are not exactly cross-overs, or SUV's:

 

- Audi A4

- BMW 3_ _ X series (I'd get the wagon)

- Subarus in most flavors

- Mitsubishi Lancer

 

The ONLY actual crossover I can think of would be the Mazda Tribute/Ford Escape. Pretty cheap, too!

post #35 of 172

Also looking at this and my choices right now are the Subie Outback Sport and the Suzuki SX4 crossover. The Suzuki is basically a Fiat, and I drove a Fiat a few weeks ago during my vacation in Italy and quite liked it. It's a smaller crossover though, so may not be ideal for you. I know that I won't be able to sleep in the back of my car anymore, like I could in my Matrix (note: i am a very small chick). I haven't driven it but hopefully will get a chance this coming weekend.

 

When I test drove the Subaru Outback Sport the salesman didn't seem too upset that I wanted a manual. They actually had quite a few manuals on the lot.

post #36 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimmyt View Post

Also looking at this and my choices right now are the Subie Outback Sport and the Suzuki SX4 crossover. The Suzuki is basically a Fiat, and I drove a Fiat a few weeks ago during my vacation in Italy and quite liked it. It's a smaller crossover though, so may not be ideal for you. I know that I won't be able to sleep in the back of my car anymore, like I could in my Matrix (note: i am a very small chick). I haven't driven it but hopefully will get a chance this coming weekend.

 

When I test drove the Subaru Outback Sport the salesman didn't seem too upset that I wanted a manual. They actually had quite a few manuals on the lot.


IMHO, the OBS brings nothing other than two tone paint over the regular Impreza 5 door. I would suggest the short shift kit that Subie offers, well worth it. Welsh (Bob Stanley) is a good dealer as in Concordville (ask for Mohommad, tell him I referred you). 

post #37 of 172
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post

why not buy a used car? 

 


Good luck finding a used crossover SUV with manual transmission, the X5 that was available with the 6-speed was rare even when they were selling new...  I do0 like Subie Outbacks, but they are smaller than our current rig and it is barely adequate.  You get to haul a lot of crap when you get a family... :-)  

post #38 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by skierhj View Post
  The Xterra and the BMW x3 can be gotten with manual but it will take a little effort to find one


I have an older Xterra ('01) 5 speed. Honestly, the next vehicle I buy will be another Xterra. I've owned mine since 05, just paid it off not too long ago, and I have no reason whatsoever to sell it, or even think about selling it.

 

It has served me extremely well on the road in hairy conditions, and in some really remote back woods 4 wheeling places. The only problem I've had with it, is I have gone through two trow-out bearings in the last 4 years. not really that much of a big deal, but it's an 8$ part buried in the back of your tranny. so if you're going in, might as well change the clutch too. Apparently the crooks at the last garage put in a used one, that's why it went so quickly though.

 

Buy an X... you'll never regret it

post #39 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post




IMHO, the OBS brings nothing other than two tone paint over the regular Impreza 5 door. I would suggest the short shift kit that Subie offers, well worth it. Welsh (Bob Stanley) is a good dealer as in Concordville (ask for Mohommad, tell him I referred you). 

 And roof rack...does the regular Impreza wagon come with roof rails? 

 

I think the two tone is hideous. I would much rather "mod" a regular Impreza.
 

post #40 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattL View Post



 And roof rack...does the regular Impreza wagon come with roof rails? 

 

I think the two tone is hideous. I would much rather "mod" a regular Impreza.
 


Pseudo rails, I would still sooner go aftermarket. 

post #41 of 172



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post

 Too bad VW/Audi doesn't offer the Tiguan/Q5 in sticks..let alone diesels. 

The Tiguan and Q5 are not built on the same platform. (If that is what you were saying)

 

Have you driven the new 8-Speed 2 liter turbo Q5?

 

Amazing engine and tranny combo.  Who needs a stick?  I was pleasantly shocked.

 

post #42 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post



 

The Tiguan and Q5 are not built on the same platform. (If that is what you were saying)

 

Have you driven the new 8-Speed 2 liter turbo Q5?

 

Amazing engine and tranny combo.  Who needs a stick?  I was pleasantly shocked.

 


sounds like a really pricey repair, I bet it wont make it to 200,000 miles on the original tranny.

post #43 of 172
Thread Starter 
Yes, Q5 turbo is actually the car I would have looked at ( if you forget about the price for a moment), but it is an automatic, so a non-starter for my wife...:-). But on paper it looks great: plenty of power, good fuel economy, and I always liked Audis. I also think it looks very good for an SUV. The reliability reputation is horrible though. Basically everyone says, Audis are great, but you need to know what you are getting into...
post #44 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzn View Post




Good luck finding a used crossover SUV with manual transmission, the X5 that was available with the 6-speed was rare even when they were selling new...  I do0 like Subie Outbacks, but they are smaller than our current rig and it is barely adequate.  You get to haul a lot of crap when you get a family... :-)  


I don't think you are going to find anything bigger that has M/T. All of the large SUVs are auto only. 

 

My small SUV does pretty good job of hauling "crap".

 

IMG_20101026_112715.jpg

post #45 of 172

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattL View Post

I don't think you are going to find anything bigger that has M/T. All of the large SUVs are auto only. 

 

 

Both XTerra and FJ are bigger than Forester. FJ is probably the most roomiest



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzn View Post

Yes, Q5 turbo is actually the car I would have looked at ( if you forget about the price for a moment), but it is an automatic, so a non-starter for my wife...:-). But on paper it looks great: plenty of power, good fuel economy, and I always liked Audis. I also think it looks very good for an SUV. The reliability reputation is horrible though. Basically everyone says, Audis are great, but you need to know what you are getting into...


Tellin' ya, just saw the FJ Curiser with your name written all over it  If for a sec you will consider an automatic - go 4Runner, you'll never regret it. Looks butt ugly this year but has perfect balance of everything. If you feel like splurging - get sport edition with locking rear differential. Good luck sorting it out

 

 

post #46 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by VladL View Post

 

Both XTerra and FJ are bigger than Forester. FJ is probably the most roomiest



 


Tellin' ya, just saw the FJ Curiser with your name written all over it  If for a sec you will consider an automatic - go 4Runner, you'll never regret it. Looks butt ugly this year but has perfect balance of everything. If you feel like splurging - get sport edition with locking rear differential. Good luck sorting it out

 

 



Cargo capacity specs for those vehicles:

 

FJ Cruiser: 66.8/27.9 (back seat down/up)

 

Xterra: 65.7/36.3

 

Forester X Prem./Limited: 63/30.8

 

Forester X: 68.3/33.5

 

If you have people in the back seat the Xterra is the cargo winner. FJ comes in last place. 

 

The Forester X wins with back seat down. I believe it has more capacity than the prem./limited because it has no sun roof (that is the only reason I could think of). The Forester X has no roof rails but they could easily be added in an afternoon for about two hundred bucks with two people, instructions from the Interwebz and 2 six packs. Pulling the headliner isn't hard, just cumbersome.

 

And averaging 24 MPG in the Forester isn't too bad.

post #47 of 172

My only comment is that the newer Foresters (2008+) are pretty nice.  Still available with a manual, though not if you get the limited/premium version with the turbo engine.  If you need something with more power, seems like plenty of suggestions were offered above...

post #48 of 172

Well, my bad then... definitely didn't feel that way by looking at them in real life...

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattL View Post


Cargo capacity specs for those vehicles:

 

FJ Cruiser: 66.8/27.9 (back seat down/up)

 

Xterra: 65.7/36.3

 

Forester X Prem./Limited: 63/30.8

 

Forester X: 68.3/33.5

 

If you have people in the back seat the Xterra is the cargo winner. FJ comes in last place. 

 

The Forester X wins with back seat down. I believe it has more capacity than the prem./limited because it has no sun roof (that is the only reason I could think of). The Forester X has no roof rails but they could easily be added in an afternoon for about two hundred bucks with two people, instructions from the Interwebz and 2 six packs. Pulling the headliner isn't hard, just cumbersome.

 

And averaging 24 MPG in the Forester isn't too bad.

post #49 of 172



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post




 

the thing is to anyone who can actually drive any automatic with a torque converter sucks! The one that use something other than not a torque converter still arent as smart as a good driver, Maual trans are more fun.....

 

 

and lastly Manual transimission are WAY more reliable than automatic, or even semi automatic transmissions. Simpler is better.

? WTF, in english please.

 

post #50 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by darent View Post



 

? WTF, in english please.

 


Daren, I see you will need to be issued your BWPA decoder ring. 

post #51 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzn View Post




Good luck finding a used crossover SUV with manual transmission, the X5 that was available with the 6-speed was rare even when they were selling new...  I do0 like Subie Outbacks, but they are smaller than our current rig and it is barely adequate.  You get to haul a lot of crap when you get a family... :-)  

The latest edition of the Subie Outback, along with the rest of the Subaru line, has upsized considerably. My fiancee drives an 08 Impreza, I drive an 06 Impreza. Hers is significantly larger, and when we asked the dealer, he told us that they gave the new Imprezas the same interior space as the old Legacy, because they increased the size of the new Legacy and Outback. If you look at the new Outbacks, they no longer resemble a station wagon, they resemble a full blown SUV.
 

post #52 of 172



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by darent View Post



 

? WTF, in English please.

 



 A torque converter hater.LOL  He thinks that is where the problem lies for him with an automatic transmission. It sound like he doesn't like the shift points in rpm that he has experienced in the automatic. The factory production converters in most new vehicles are built only so tough so you the buyer get reasonable life out of the complete unit. You can have a really nice one built for $200 give or take. The converter is pretty much mindless. The valve body is the brain of an automatic and where most changes can be made. All the manufactures set up their automatics to work well in a variety of load, situations and conditions for long life. Any modifications you make to your own peril of overall usability. The current VW cars are probably the most advanced vehicle drive line offered at a semi reasonable price today. It will be interesting to see how they hold up over time with all the thrashing they will receive by the unconscious that buy them.

 

 NOTE: New diesel buyers. Find out what UREA Fluid is before you buy a diesel. (aka Diesel Heroin") Namely, how much of a prisoner you are going to be to "the stuff" with the purchase of that shiny new  depreciating car. Mercedes got in a bit of a mess because of non-disclosure of the fluid. Oops.  Wink wink nudge nudge!  Older diesels don't have, need or use the fluid.

post #53 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattL View Post





Cargo capacity specs for those vehicles:

 

FJ Cruiser: 66.8/27.9 (back seat down/up)

 

Xterra: 65.7/36.3

 

Forester X Prem./Limited: 63/30.8

 

Forester X: 68.3/33.5

 

If you have people in the back seat the Xterra is the cargo winner. FJ comes in last place. 

 

The Forester X wins with back seat down. I believe it has more capacity than the prem./limited because it has no sun roof (that is the only reason I could think of). The Forester X has no roof rails but they could easily be added in an afternoon for about two hundred bucks with two people, instructions from the Interwebz and 2 six packs. Pulling the headliner isn't hard, just cumbersome.

 

And averaging 24 MPG in the Forester isn't too bad.


The newest model of Forester has the same type of roof racks as the current Impreza. On our 08 Impreza, we bought the factory bars for $139. There are four tabs on the roof that flip up to reveal bolt holes. the thumbscrews on the racks screw directly into those. I take the bars on and off about half a dozen times a year. Takes me about five minutes on a slow day.

post #54 of 172


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by skimalibu View Post



 



 A torque converter hater.LOL  He thinks that is where the problem lies for him with an automatic transmission. It sound like he doesn't like the shift points in rpm that he has experienced in the automatic. The factory production converters in most new vehicles are built only so tough so you the buyer get reasonable life out of the complete unit. You can have a really nice one built for $200 give or take. The converter is pretty much mindless. The valve body is the brain of an automatic and where most changes can be made. All the manufactures set up their automatics to work well in a variety of load, situations and conditions for long life. Any modifications you make to your own peril of overall usability. The current VW cars are probably the most advanced vehicle drive line offered at a semi reasonable price today. It will be interesting to see how they hold up over time with all the thrashing they will receive by the unconscious that buy them.

 

 NOTE: New diesel buyers. Find out what UREA Fluid is before you buy a diesel. (aka Diesel Heroin") Namely, how much of a prisoner you are going to be to "the stuff" with the purchase of that shiny new  depreciating car. Mercedes got in a bit of a mess because of non-disclosure of the fluid. Oops.  Wink wink nudge nudge!  Older diesels don't have, need or use the fluid.


 

Again, gotta thank idiotic environmentalists for urea, too.  It is relevant for skiers and riders that the stuff freezes pretty easily, too, something like tennish degrees.

post #55 of 172

RE: Urea injection in Diesels - that's the Mercedes "Bluetec" system. How much volume does the urea canister hold, and how often do you need to refill/replace it?

post #56 of 172



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowsport View Post

RE: Urea injection in Diesels - that's the Mercedes "Bluetec" system. How much volume does the urea canister hold, and how often do you need to refill/replace it?



All really good questions for the buyers to find out for themselves from the source. If told in another way they might be mislead. I think Dodge is the only Mfg. that doesn't require UREA to pass requirements. There may be others......Freezing is a problem......." The stuff" is also effected by age. Just another thing that people aren't used to that requires special handling. All I'm saying is know what you are getting into. And know the first hand facts.

 

ANOTHER  NOTE: Mfg. find it hard to sell vehicles that perform reasonably and meet model year emission standards. (I'm hearing this all to much from many places.) So see if this is what you have witnessed or it sounds familiar...........

 

  Mfg. sell a car or truck one way, with perceived good drivability (namely  power, torque and mileage) Then once enough of the vehicles are in the hands of the consumers (IMHO) have a secret pre-planed mandatory recall. (You are unable to get new plates without it being completed) The recall is called a "re-flash of the computer software". Afterwords you have a different vehicle down on power, or use-ability and mileage. It is my belief that this type of "bait and switch" is currently being done by some or all on purpose to move units that otherwise wouldn't have the same perceived luster. They all have to know that the vehicles they release for sale won't pass the required "standards" for the model year. They know once you drive off the lot the return of the vehicle will not be an easy path. Most people will take the easy path and keep the vehicle and put up with the pre-planned? known shortcomings. And some buyers sell or trade it sooner because the difference afterwords is that bad.[Think of  what that does to your wallet! They have you stuck over a barrel between the lesser of two. Legal fees and loss of value and use of a vehicle.] The Mfgs. must have calculated this, and win in the long run. I begining to think this is all they can do. They moved another unit that would have gone otherwise unsold..... Nice Huh!.....A good "60 Minutes" piece? should be done on as this is getting to be all to common of a story. That is if 60 M has any creditibility left. Why is this being done? The Eco-Nuts having to much power and inrealistic expectations of what can be acheived by the Mfg for a reasonable proffit margin......... "Everything IS a theory with them"...


Edited by skimalibu - 10/29/10 at 8:26pm
post #57 of 172


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post



 

The Tiguan and Q5 are not built on the same platform. (If that is what you were saying)

 

Have you driven the new 8-Speed 2 liter turbo Q5?

 

Amazing engine and tranny combo.  Who needs a stick?  I was pleasantly shocked.

 


or the new Q7 with the supercharged 3.0 from the S4/S5 and the 8 speed?

 

Agreed, why bother with a stick on an SUV?  Having been brought up on them and driven them for 40+ years not sure why you would want on a truck.  Paddle shifts and a good auto work fine

post #58 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotsSkier View Post


 


or the new Q7 with the supercharged 3.0 from the S4/S5 and the 8 speed?

 

Agreed, why bother with a stick on an SUV?  Having been brought up on them and driven them for 40+ years not sure why you would want on a truck.  Paddle shifts and a good auto work fine

Give me a good auto over a bad stick any day. Most trucks do have lousy sticks. Mercedes also were known for great autos and lousy sticks too. I would not be adverse to a DSG type tranny but I chose the manual in my Jetta over it because, even with the DSG being smarter and more responsive along with getting better MPG's than the manual, I wanted a true stick. 
 

post #59 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by skimalibu View Post

ANOTHER  NOTE: Mfg. find it hard to sell vehicles that perform reasonably and meet model year emission standards. (I'm hearing this all to much.) So see if this is what you have witnessed or it sounds familiar...........

 

  Mfg. sell a car or truck one way, with perceived good drivability (namely  power, torque and mileage) Then once enough of the vehicles are in the hands of the consumers have a secret pre-planed mandatory recall. (You are unable to get new plates without it being completed) The recall is a "re-flash of the computer software". Afterwords you have a different vehicle down on power, use-ability and mileage. It is my belief that this type of "bait and switch" is currently being done by some or all on purpose to move units that otherwise wouldn't have the same perceived luster. They all have to know that the vehicles they release for sale won't pass the required "standards" for the model year. They know once you drive off the lot the return of the vehicle will not be an easy path. Most people will take the easy path and keep the vehicle and put up with the pre-planned known shortcomings. And some buyers sell or trade it sooner because the difference afterwords is that bad.[ Think of  what that does to your wallet! They have you stuck over a barrel between the lesser of two. Legal fees and loss of value and use of a vehicle.] The Mfgs. must have calculated this, and win in the long run. They moved another unit that would have gone otherwise unsold..... Nice Huh!.....A good "60 Minutes" piece should be done on this all to common scam. Why is this being done? The Eco-Nuts having to much power and inrealistic expectations of what can be acheived by the Mfg for a reasonable proffit margin......... "Everything is a theory with them"...

 

Every vehicle (and / or engine) must have EPA approval of its configuration to be sold in US, so "secret pre-planned mandatory recalls" are nonsense. The standards are well known and you must be certificated in order to sell, or even offer to sell a vehicle or engine in this country.

 

I'm in the engine business (BIG diesels) and deal with EPA requirements, so while such conspiracy theories are popular and cute, but there's no truth behind them. Sell an uncertified engine or car in the US and they'll be an instant, extremely expensive, EPA lawsuit, so no manufacturer in their right mind would try to pass off something that doesn't meet the regs of the model year.

 

A good "60 Minutes" piece (without being a hatchet job) would be refreshing in itself. Remember the "Audi 5000 unintended acceleration expose" where they "proved" the problem  existed (Oh, about that external air pump they used to force air pressure into the transmission to "prove" the point )
 

post #60 of 172

On BMW, I believe it's every 10,000 miles (could be something else though). What I do remember is that if you go 1,000 miles past the prescribed time, the car won't start and has to be towed back to the dealer to get the urea refilled and the car reset.

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