EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › Automotive/Car Talk › SUVs or crossovers with manual transmission (imports)?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

SUVs or crossovers with manual transmission (imports)? - Page 6

post #151 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzn View Post


I am not condoning fast driving in snow, nor I drive fast there myself, but my empirical evidence tell me that the line of cars tat is going up the 80 at the faster speed is almost always 4wd cars, so drive faster argument does work.

It just proves that people with those cars THINK they can ignore the laws of physics. My experience has been that most of the cars in the ditch are the same idiots.
post #152 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzn View Post


I am not condoning fast driving in snow, nor I drive fast there myself, but my empirical evidence tell me that the line of cars tat is going up the 80 at the faster speed is almost always 4wd cars, so drive faster argument does work.



It just proves that people with those cars THINK they can ignore the laws of physics. My experience has been that most of the cars in the ditch are the same idiots.


After thousands of trips to the mountain, I have a pretty good idea of how fast I can drive safely, and it is certainly faster than the minivan with all seasons and an inexperienced driver, or another car with chains.

post #153 of 172



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by iWill View Post


In WA, they can require chains OR 4WD, or they can flat out require chains. Those days when they require chains on 4WD, they mean it. Everyone, (including 4WD) is required to carry chains in the winter, whether you use them or not.

Damn right they mean it!  There's a great video on YouTube of cars in Portland piuretting down the street.  That damp, northwest snow, when the road is cold, but the air is right around freezing, is about the slickest imaginable surface- worse than a skating rink, no exageration.  Around this time back in 1994, in high school, I got an early season ski day in.  The road in the parking lot wasn't bad, so I didn't cable-up.  A little lower, it was unbelievable.  It was so slick that if you stopped on the middle of a corner, you'd actually slide sideways down the banking of the corner to the inside.  I rear-ended a friend of a friend on the way down, and several other cars came close to rear-ending me, but slid off the road before they could get to me.  The only way out, since my right rear tire was hard against a wall of snow and there was a pile-up of cars in front of me, was to put it in reverse and spin the tire until it melted through the snow down to the road surface.

 

When I lived in Califorina, one time it hailed enough to mostly cover the road.  On a 15 mile drive up highway one to Santa Maria, there was a car on it's ROOF about every half mile- usually a 4wd.  I have no idea how so many drivers could be that bad.

 

Later, I was driving my Jeep to Mammoth in what I'd call average snowy conditions.  I was REQUIRED to buy chains.  6 years later, they're still in the box, unopened.  Other people put them on right away and were throwing off sparks on a dry road!

 

post #154 of 172
I'm pretty sure my AWD Audi owner's manual says I can't use chains on it. I have studs. So, they make all Audi owners stay put?

I couldn't believe this, so I went directly to the Washington State (WSDOT) site:
Quote:
Those traveling into higher elevations should carry chains and have approved traction tires year-round. When chains are required, studded tires alone will not meet the chain requirement unless your vehicle is a four- or all-wheel drive vehicle.

Just like I thought.
post #155 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzn View Post

 

 

carve- technically your statement is not true- you can still get a couple of luxury SUVs and vagons with a stick.  BMW X3 and Porche Cayenne come with a stick in base models, and I think you can get a 535xi wagon with a stick (which would be a delicious ski car).  

  



 The X3 is auto only, although the x35i version is the same nice auto available in the 335i.  The 5 series is no longer available in a wagon in the US.  That hatchback thing they replaced it with is auto only.  I believe the last 5er wagon was also wagon only, but I'm not 100% sure.  I know the 535xi was auto though.  I think all the xi's might be auto.

post #156 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

I'm pretty sure my AWD Audi owner's manual says I can't use chains on it. I have studs. So, they make all Audi owners stay put?

I couldn't believe this, so I went directly to the Washington State (WSDOT) site:


Quote:
Those traveling into higher elevations should carry chains and have approved traction tires year-round. When chains are required, studded tires alone will not meet the chain requirement unless your vehicle is a four- or all-wheel drive vehicle.



Just like I thought.


My Volvo also says don't use chains. But state law says I have to carry chains, no matter what. And state patrol can require all vehicles, even those with 4wd and studs to use chains. They don't often do that, they will usually just shut the road down, but they can...hence the requirement for you to carry chains, even if you drive an Audi with studded tires. 

post #157 of 172

I'm thinking the Cayenne Turbo with PTM and the 8 speed Tiptronic S transmission looks like a pretty cool get the hill and home safe vehicle

And it isnt North american made either. I understand its an AWD and a automatic , but the automatic is set up with the paddle shifters so very close to standard and also very cool.It is also very fuel savy for its class, when at a light or stopped with the foot on the break the engine actually turns off but leaves things like heaters and radio and such running ( nice idea for the evo people)

Yup I think im gunna have a good hard look at this one for sure!

post #158 of 172

The Cayenne, and it's chassis-mate, the Toureg, are pretty much the least reliable vehicles you can buy right now and are very overpriced.  Not something I'd want to take skiing.

post #159 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by carve View Post

The Cayenne, and it's chassis-mate, the Toureg, are pretty much the least reliable vehicles you can buy right now and are very overpriced.  Not something I'd want to take skiing.



Well I was only about 100K short too!!!

post #160 of 172

I was looking around, and it seems like even with companies like Subaru, the only way to get a stick is to go with a low-end model. No way would I buy a 2011 model and get it without navigation, considering both how many road trips it would be going on, and the resale boost of GPS. Looks to me like a WRX hatchback/wagon is still the sweet spot.

post #161 of 172

Since you can buy the latest Garmins for somewhere around $140 with lots of bells, I can't imagine why a car with what will be "ancient technology" when you sell it would have more resale value than a car without it.  I've got a Nuvi 165WT and love it, but aside from very occasional trips, I don't need the thing most of the time.  It has lifetime traffic reports included.  That was used when I go down to Denver, but...  mostly it stays in the house. 

post #162 of 172

Yeah, I opted out of the $900 Volvo navigation system when I bought my car in 2006...a $200 Garmin now does more than the 2006 built in system.

post #163 of 172
Thread Starter 

You gotta be kidding me...  Navigation is a complete waste of money these days.  Why pay $2000+ for a navi system in-car with a clunky interface and outdated map when you can get a $200 Garmin that works better and that you can use in another car or in your backpack...   Even better solution- I actually use a $25 Navigon app on my iPhone that works just like an in-car system- it even pauses the music when it gives directions over the car sound system.  Actually my iPhone replaces the in-car entertaiment/navigation system entirely.  And with a Bluetooth headset you also get a built-in phone with Skype thrown in at no cost.   

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxArcher View Post

I was looking around, and it seems like even with companies like Subaru, the only way to get a stick is to go with a low-end model. No way would I buy a 2011 model and get it without navigation, considering both how many road trips it would be going on, and the resale boost of GPS. Looks to me like a WRX hatchback/wagon is still the sweet spot.

post #164 of 172

Agreed.  When you go to sell the car, it'll look like a built-in Commedore 64.  Also, most companies charge as much for a mpa update as it would cost to buy an entire brand new Garmin.  You can take the garmin in rental cars or walking too.  A decent garmin costs $200, too, to the built in 1000-2000.  The only advantage to the built-in is the tidy integration into the dash.

 

No way I'm checking the GPS option box unless it is under $250.  The car makers love it though- it costs them next to nothing and probably generates as much profit on the sale as the whole rest of the car.

post #165 of 172

That dash integration is pretty critical, though, especially since manufacturers seem to be designing their interiors specifically to prevent you from using a separate GPS unit, as is the case with my GF's new car, where there's not a single spot to suction cup or clip one on, except at the very top of the windshield where it'll interfere with operation of the visors, and putting it on the windshield is illegal in a lot of states. The other reason I like to have an in-dash system, aside from the fact that they're safer to use, due to the large screen and placement, is the fact that they're almost all standard double-DIN units, so you can always replace it with a newer in-dash GPS, while you're screwed with the non-nav radio in just about any modern car since it's built into the dash.

 

Aside from all the personal reasons, it's proving pretty well so far that the extra price of the GPS translates directly into resale value, especially if you're somebody who trades their cars in within five years. Don't forget that the GPS packages also almost always include an upgraded speaker system and extra features like iPod integration and XM Radio, and are often part of a package that includes stuff like HID headlights and stability control on many cars.

post #166 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxArcher View Post

That dash integration is pretty critical, though, especially since manufacturers seem to be designing their interiors specifically to prevent you from using a separate GPS unit, as is the case with my GF's new car, where there's not a single spot to suction cup or clip one on, except at the very top of the windshield where it'll interfere with operation of the visors, and putting it on the windshield is illegal in a lot of states. The other reason I like to have an in-dash system, aside from the fact that they're safer to use, due to the large screen and placement, is the fact that they're almost all standard double-DIN units, so you can always replace it with a newer in-dash GPS, while you're screwed with the non-nav radio in just about any modern car since it's built into the dash.

 

Aside from all the personal reasons, it's proving pretty well so far that the extra price of the GPS translates directly into resale value, especially if you're somebody who trades their cars in within five years. Don't forget that the GPS packages also almost always include an upgraded speaker system and extra features like iPod integration and XM Radio, and are often part of a package that includes stuff like HID headlights and stability control on many cars.


Gee, four years ago there was no XM radio or iPod integration options for the $900 unit that doesn't work as well as the now $200 aftermarket unit. Are you sure that in 4 more years XM and iPod won't have gone the way of 8 tracks and cassettes?

 

 

post #167 of 172
Thread Starter 

I have not yet seen a car where you cannot put the suction cup mount, and if that does not work, there is always a "sandbag" mount option.  Yes, upgraded speakers and iPod input are great, but you still are paying a grand for the navigation, so it is best to get a better stereo package on its own.  I can integrate an iPod into almost any car for $200 tops (and aftermarket iPod units are almost always better than factory integration, BMW being a classic example), and most of the stereos nowadays come with an aux jack anyway.  I am not sure that buying a nav just to have a double-DIN unit to replace is afterwards is a good approach.

 

The major sucking point of the Garmin units is that if you forget to take it off the dash it screams "steal me".  We lost one unit (and a drivers side window) to one enterprising individual in San Francisco a couple years ago... 

 

The last point maybe controversial, but I don't think that in-dash is the safest option, I would rather use a modern touchscreen like an iPhone, it just works faster and more intuitive, and also you can mount it higher on the windshield where it is marginally safer to look at...   

post #168 of 172
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by iWill View Post

Gee, four years ago there was no XM radio or iPod integration options for the $900 unit that doesn't work as well as the now $200 aftermarket unit. Are you sure that in 4 more years XM and iPod won't have gone the way of 8 tracks and cassettes?

Very true... my guess is that a few years from now your in-car-entertainment system will be just a dock for your smartphone that will run your music, navigation, and communications needs seamlessly.   Why have a separate navigation unit when your smartphone has enough processor power to run a very clever navigation system, and much more.  If you have an iPhone 3GS or iPhone 4, Navigon's GPS app works just as well as a Garmin unit with a totally similar interface, has a better touchscreen, costs only $25, and lets you play music while navigating.   This is the future. 
 

post #169 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by carve View Post

The Cayenne, and it's chassis-mate, the Toureg, are pretty much the least reliable vehicles you can buy right now and are very overpriced.  Not something I'd want to take skiing.


I think that is based upon pretty old data.  the early ones had a lot of issues but there have been  major improvements.  I run the other cousin, (Audi) and have had zero issues.  Also, back on topic, as someone who was brought up driving sticks (some without synchro!)   and for 30+ years drove nothing else and always thought it was the best way to go, I got to say I am very happy with and have no less control with, a good 6 speed auto.  Just use the paddle or manual shift as necessary and they can downshift as smooth as a skilled double declutch (for those who know what that is!)  .  the new Audi/VW/BMW 8 speed should be even better .  And  as my normal airport commute takes me over  9000ft pass I probably  see more extreme  weather variations than most. Oh, and of course good snow tires are critical, especially going downhill.    (4WD masks a lot going uphill) 

post #170 of 172

You guys have some really good points, and I see where you're coming from. However, having gone from dashtop GPS units and cell phones to a car with a factory Nav system, I feel that for any daily driver car, I could never go back. The convenience, reduced risk of theft, and increased safety of the Nav system are more than worth the price, IMO.

 

I will agree that the update cost is absolutely ridiculous. The fact that I spent $2000 sticker (it was a decent amount less than that out the door, when you consider negotiated price) on this unit, and then have to spend $300 a year on updates is insane when you consider the free updates you get with a TomTom or Garmin. Let me say that I'm unusually anti-piracy for this day and age, and I almost never advocate anything of the sort, but there are alternate sources of the data, and making the DVD is easy enough.

post #171 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxArcher View Post
 Don't forget that the GPS packages also almost always include an upgraded speaker system and extra features like iPod integration and XM Radio, and are often part of a package that includes stuff like HID headlights and stability control on many cars.

Can I just say that I hate HID headlights. All they do is blind on coming traffic and the person in front of you
 

post #172 of 172

They've gotten better in the past couple of years. The early ones were terrible, with the stupid blue light and tons of glare, but the newer ones have really well-controlled beams. They're basically like traditional headlights, but whiter and brighter. Nice when you're the only one driving up an unlit mountain road at 4AM trying to catch the first lift.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lonewolf210 View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxArcher View Post
 Don't forget that the GPS packages also almost always include an upgraded speaker system and extra features like iPod integration and XM Radio, and are often part of a package that includes stuff like HID headlights and stability control on many cars.

Can I just say that I hate HID headlights. All they do is blind on coming traffic and the person in front of you
 

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Automotive/Car Talk
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › Automotive/Car Talk › SUVs or crossovers with manual transmission (imports)?