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Twintip flex

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 
Ever since I impressed my 9 y.o. daughter (and myself <G>) last season by successfully nailing a reasonable sized jump a couple of times in succession on my ancient (but super stable) 205 Volkl Zebras, she has been nagging me to pick up a pair of twintips and spend more time in terrain parks and pipes with her. I do have newer skis, but I was having fun showing off the old boards to the youngsters (aka, dOOOds) in the park.

If a pair of TT's could do double duty, and say be reasonable for moguls and slow speed groomer stuff (eg, teaching, etc.), that would be an ENORMOUS plus to me, especially if it might reduce the number of pairs of skis I usually bring to the mountain. I know that a TT won't replace my Volkl p40's, but maybe it could replace the relatively soft "all-mountain" ski that I use for the above situations. Is this reasonable to expect?

Altho I've searched and found a couple of threads this general topic, my specific questions were not answered. In particular, just how stiff are twintips like the 1080 and Enemy?

Perhaps people who have one of these two models could post a reply and compare their flex to some currently popular ski like the Mod X?

I have heard that the 1080 is considerably softer than the Enemy, so the obvious next questions are:

1) How well does the softer 1080 carve on eastern hardpack and ice where a firm flex is usually desirable, and conversely,

2) How well does the stiffer Enemy do in moguls where some forebody softness is desirable? My mogul skiing is fine in form, but I usually take them at low to medium speeds, and don't straightline them like my daughter does. Altho its stiffer in flex, does the Enemy have enough torsional stiffness to be good in ice?

My shortest ski is currently a 188. Having come down from years on 205's and 207 pencil skis, even 188 seems short, but apparently, lengths around 160 are common for TT's. Would that be a reasonable length for someone who is using them mostly for moguls and general mountain use, and not lots of tricks? (Note - a lot of the moguls at the local small hills were formed by kids butchering them into existence on very short skis, so they are usually closely spaced and scraped down to the ice base).

One final question - over the years, I have bought many skis used, but I'm not sure if this is a good idea for a TT, as I suspect that this type of ski receives more heavy use/abuse than most others, and that degredation might not be obvious (ie, foam cores, glues, etc. breaking down from the constant severe flexing). Thoughts?



PS#1 - It looks like you got a great moderated ski forum going here! This is my very first posting to it in an attempt to avoid the idiocy that has been going on at rec.skiing.alpine for the last few years.

PS#2 - I've been skiing for nearly 30 years, and it certainly would be fun to try some simple stuff in the park and pipes. However, as a middle-aged guy with my brain still functional, but a waistline which has expanded since I was 20, I have absolutely no intention to attempt any radical tricks on the TT's, so this doesn't have to enter anybody's evaluation of the suitability of such skis for my use.

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[This message has been edited by PhysicsMan (edited June 10, 2001).]</FONT><FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by PhysicsMan (edited June 11, 2001).]</FONT>
post #2 of 17
Not sure if I can answer all questions, but I'll try. Ski companies are trying to mainstream twin-tips, which is why there will be a bunch of cuts and lengths next year. You could actually find a pair of twins to replace your volkls; i.e. the salomon pocket rocket (alright for hardpack), K2 ak enemy (based on the ak launchers), rossi xx or xxx (i have the older version of the xxx and they kick serious ass), volant McHucksters (although these suck for hardpack). I think volkl also has a fat twin coming out, but I'm not sure. I haven't skied the 1080s, but I do own a few pairs of the K2 Xplorer, which is the same as the Enemy but without a twin-tip. It would be great for what you describe, including moguls. There are some mogul specific twins out there that might be better suited, however. As far as ice, I don't ski much hardcore ice, but when I have gotten in some hard stuff, these skis handle well as long as you carry some speed. The volkl v is supposed to be a great ski as well, but again I haven't tried them. As far as length goes, I wouldn't ski any less than about 183 definately. If you were seriously into tricks (which you aren't), I might go lower, but not much. With those shorter skis, depending on height of course, you lose ability to use them outside of a park, not gain. And finally, for buying them used, I wouldn't buy any skis used unless someone was selling unmounted ones (which people do on ebay and other forums) or you knew the person selling them and how they skied. Unless you have a good idea of what the skis have been through, it is a definate gamble.

One final note, be careful of people who tell you a ski rips just because it's the only one they've skied. I tried to make it clear that i haven't skied a lot of the skis i've mentioned, but I thought I'd mention them just to give some thoughts. The only true way to find out is to demo the skis, which may or may not be an option for you. Also, look into finding a good ski shop with staff that know what they're talking about.

Hope some of this helped a little
post #3 of 17
I have Volkl V's and they are very good all around for twintips. They are good on hardpack and carve well, and would work fine for the mogul skiing you were describing. I also have 1080's and find them great in the park but too soft for alot of ice and hardpack. I have taken a couple runs on the Enemy's and found them effective all around, similar to the V's. Don't get Pocket Rockets or really fat twintips like that other guy said if you ski the east coast. The Pocket Rockets are incredibly fat and made for pow, not at all for ice and moguls and the like.

As I see it twintips are divided into 3 categories: park only skis like the Line 1260 and Salomon 1080, Mid-Fat/All around twin tips like the Volkl V and K2 Enemy, and debuting next year, fat twin tips like the Salomon Pocket Rocket and K2 AK Enemy. I'd reccomend you get some mid-fat twins. As for length The V comes in 178 and the Enemy in 180 which would be around the right size for you. Don't even think about going down around 160, I am only 5'4 and ride the V's in 168 and 1080's in 161. Any more questions just ask.
post #4 of 17
Thread Starter 
Guys - thanks for the words of wisdom. I've already got a Volkl Explosiv3 that is absolutely stunning in powder and for crud bashing, so it sounds like either the Enemy or the Volkl "V" is the one for me.

A couple more questions:

1) Apparently there were (depending on who you talk to) either delamination or cosmetic problems with last season's Enemy. Do you know if that has been dealt with in next season's model?

2) Any favorite on-line places to pick up TT's (ie, maybe at cheaper off-season prices)? I found a place called www.get-twintips.com that apparently already has next season's Enemy. Anybody have experience with them?

Thanks again,


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[This message has been edited by PhysicsMan (edited June 10, 2001).]</FONT>
post #5 of 17

One question - Do you plan on landing or riding fakie? If you think that might not be your forte, some all-mtn. "wannabe" twins might work as well. The Rossi XX in a 177 or 184 comes to mind. In my case, I have been usng my G30's (193) with the slightly flared tail for landing hits fakie. I did scoop up a pair of Volkl V's on E-bay that I am dying to try though.
post #6 of 17
Thread Starter 
BanditMan -

I have been skiing backwards and doing slow-mo, on-the-snow 180's, 360's and continuous rotations for decades on regular skis on low angle slopes, often as a way to prevent boredom when teaching, so I definitely want to use the TT's to increase my capability to ride fakie (especially at higher speeds). We'll see about landing jumps fakie - I'm an old fart - I'll have to work up to that.

Fooling around going backwards on regular skis (with only slightly turned up tails) got me into trouble in Feb. I was doing this at a non trivial speed. My tails dug in, I did an endo, and wound up with some seriously pulled muscles that have continued to bother me till the end of the season. I would really prefer that not to happen again.

post #7 of 17
The problem with Bandit XX and other mock twintips is that they are not intended for jumping and the like so they are pretty heavy. You also have a better chance of hurting yourself going switch like you talked about. It is true that the Enemy had delam problems last year, but they say that the problems were remedied for next years model. Some good sites for twin tips are...
www.getboards.com www.mogulskishop.com
post #8 of 17
The problem with Bandit XX and other mock twintips is that they are not intended for jumping and the like so they are pretty heavy. You also have a better chance of hurting yourself going switch like you talked about. It is true that the Enemy had delam problems last year, but they say that the problems were remedied for next years model. Some good sites for twin tips are...
www.getboards.com www.mogulskishop.com
post #9 of 17
The 1080 is actually a pretty damn good all mountain ski. Personally think it does most things better than the majority of the TT skis out there. It's built on the X-Scream Series platform, so it carries down some of its older brother's characteristics. It kinda falls apart on ice/hardpack though. It has a softer tip than tail which is noticeable. It gives pretty good acceleration coming out of the turn, though not as much as a race specific ski would (actually, not even close to the high end race models). It's ok in powder...the pocket rocket would be the ski to look at for off-piste jibbing. What else what else. If aesthetics is a major part, you may not want the 1080 (just in case). Alot of people own them, and it's a ski that stands out quite a bit, and you might get called a poser or something lol.

In comparison to the mod-x, it's alot softer imho. It's not gonna be as damp either, but i guess that's a "safety" issue from what the rep said. The stiffness would probably compare to...i'd say either a bandit or rebel x. I dunno bout the other twins though much.

Hope this helps

post #10 of 17
Thread Starter 
Since most of my use of a TT will be in the East, performance on powder is irrelevant to me, wherereas good perf on ice & hardpack (particularly scraped off moguls) is essential. I guess from what everyone says, that pretty much excludes the 1080.

With respect to being accused of being a poser, I had already speculated that given my age, that could occur just for having a pair of TT's on my feet - any TT's. I'm not going to let it bother me. If they help prevent me from doing another endo and allow me to have more fun - so what.

Thanks again,


PS - I seem to be getting multiple copies of the various messages in this thread. I presume this is not due to some configuration option that I have set improperly???
post #11 of 17
In Verbier this year I skied next year's Enemy, this year's 1080 and this year's McT from Volant.

The 1080 is definitely the softest, and is generally a barrel of laughs all over the mountain. However, I didn't feel particularly stable at speed on harder snow, and believe it or not, I found them a tad too soft in the bumps, although this could also be due either to my own ability and style or to the fact that I was skiing them probably 10cm too short.

The Enemy was nice, but i have to admit I found it rather "lifeless" and damp. it didn't seem to have much rebound or kick. That said, one of my fellow "testers" loved it.

The McT was the best all round ski. Not only is it an amazing ski in the park (and I was skiing it long! - the 185 I think, which for a twin tip for me is quite some length) but on the mountain at large it skied very much like it's brother the McG. It handled everything I threw at it, from powder to bullet-proof to bumps and cut up crud.

It is flexible enough to make it great fun to throw around but has the power and bite to handle the rest of the year as well.

Of all the twin tips I've been on, I think the Volant McT is the best all-rounder by about 4 and a half nautical miles.

Hope this is of some use.

Pass me a bottle, Mr Jones...
post #12 of 17
Thread Starter 
Great info! - I'll have to add the McT to the list of ones to demo. I know you skied the McT at 185, but what lengths were the 1080 and Enemy (if you remember)?

Also, what's the feeling on reliability problems (eg, coming apart, warping) for Volants that you know are going to be subjected to a lot of severe flexing, particularly in the moguls? I understand that this used to be a problem.

Thanks again,

post #13 of 17
Like many other twin tips, Volant's has suffered from delamination problems. I'm not sure if they have done anything to fix this for next year, but I've had friends who have had their McT's delam on them. 1080's come in 161, 169, and 177. As for graphics, they will be all new next year with each length having different graphics since they have been termed pro models. The Enemy comes in 163, 173, and 183. The Volkl's are really the only twin tips I have been on or heard about that don't suffer from delam problems, but most companies are making an effort to remedy the problems for next year.
post #14 of 17
Two other boards to consider are the new breed of bump skis coming out in 2002. Both Salomon and Rossi are doing a TT bump ski based on their current TT models but with more of a bump flex pattern and sidecut.

The names are equally as original:

Salomon 1080 Mogul
Rossignol Mogul

I've demo'd the 1080 mogul and liked it a lot in slush and on the bumps. I haven't demo'd the rossi.
post #15 of 17
Thread Starter 
>Both Salomon and Rossi are doing a TT
>bump ski based on their current TT models
>but with more of a bump flex pattern and

To me that means a soft front, a stiff rear & not as deeply sidecut? Is that your understanding?

post #16 of 17
Also look at http://www.sportsden.com for buying. I've heard they're ok but never used them
post #17 of 17
Physics man, I think I had the 1080 in a 169 (?) and the Enemy in the 183.

I've not heard of the McTs delaming. I have a friend who owns a pair and skis them pretty aggresively wiht no problems.

One other point, next years McTs are going to be called the "69" and they look the business - all polished chrome with 69 stamped into them like a military dog tag. Very sexy. I, for one, will be investing in a pair.

I have heard a lot about TTs delamming, so I expect most of the serious companies will be making that a priority now, and would be surprised if any of the above mentioned skis suffer this problem in the future.

Definitely demo the skis everyone's mentioned - they're all great boards and it's just a case of seeing what you like. As I said, I didn't rate the Enemys at all but my colleague wouldn't let them go.

Let us know what you decide...

Pass me a bottle, Mr Jones...
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