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Helmets - Page 2

post #31 of 43

talking strictly about a helmet as a piece of gear would be refreshing

 

helmets with a thin shell and crushable enhanced styrofoam underneath (bicycle style design) quickly look like a dented up old POS, even when cared for with total obsession.

 

which commonly available all mountain (not racing)  helmets now feature a hard enough outer shell to resist this type of denting. Smith Varient for one?

post #32 of 43

OP, I wish you luck in finding a helmet that fits your head.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skidude72 View Post

Seriously chill out.

 

Dude, I'm totally chill.  Wear a helmet if you want.  Or don't.  I care not.

 

Quote:
But if slipping on ice is your concern, why not wear you helmet to the grocery store in winter....or any time you need to leave the house in winter.

 

My concern while skiing is more being wiped out by someone else, which I have limited control over.  Particularly if I'm stopped during a lesson, though I've also been taken out while skiing.

 

I already try not to walk on ice.  When skiing, you don't always have a choice.  If my day job involved walking around on ice all day, I might want a helmet, or at least cat-tracks or similar on my shoes.  (Or is wearing boots with good traction when it's icy also unnecessary and worthy of ridicule?)

 

Quote:
Ever play team sports?

 

I did wear a rugby cap when I played, but that was more so my ears wouldn't get shredded in a scrum.  I would contend that you can get hit at least as hard while skiing as you can while playing football, as people can reach significantly higher speeds on even a moderate slope than they can on foot.

 

Quote:
Hit in the head with the safety bar?  Well first, I hope you give the tool who did it a good talking too..

 

I usually do.  I'm very tall, so this is probably more of an issue for me than other people.  This is certainly the most common impact that my helmet absorbs.

 

Quote:
Well read the motoring studies.  You would be amazed.  Race car drivers all wear helmets.

 

I guess I should have been more specific and said I hadn't seen any studies on whether helmets make a significant difference for regular drivers in accidents at regular driving speeds.  If you are very likely to be in a car crash at very high speeds, generally extra safety equipment is going to be worthwhile.

 

Quote:
The lessons are ski in control, be aware of your surroundings, know, understand, and preach the skiers responsiblity code.  Follow those three rules and you will stay out of trouble...somthing far more effective then any damage minimisation strategy. 

I'll totally agree on that. 

 

Quote:
Want to wear a helmet for the extra insurance...go for it.  But dont preach it to others, and dont suggest that they are irresponsible for making their choice.

 

I didn't preach anything to anyone.  You asked "why do people wear helmets on the ski hill and not at other times?" and I tried to answer (with tongue somewhat in cheek.)

 

It might also help to not suggest that people are "copy cat kids" or gapers if they make a different choice than you do.

post #33 of 43

OK, I'll try to address OP's actual question, rather than SkiDude's existential angst over, uh, conformity, or risk, or teens, or whatever seems to be making him so tense.

 

OP: My wife wears a POC. Nice helmet, well put together. She has a wide, round skull, and it works. OTOH, I have a long narrow skull and it doesn't fit all that well. My noggin prefers Sweet or some other brands. Takeway: 1) There are various threads you can search out if you try the helmet brand as a keyword. Look for posts instead of threads. Many discuss actual fit. A few discuss the use of different materials and specific issues involving concussion, penetration and so on. 2) That said, as Sibhusky has pointed out, it's unlikely you will find a good fit online unless you're just lucky. Actual size (L etc.) also varies a lot between brands and even within them. You might wear a M in one and a L in another. 3) You'll be better off to get a good fit from a shop you have access to than just ordering a particular brand online. Fit is actually significant to a helmet's function, especially in terms of concussions. 4) Some people have an imperfect grasp of epidemiology, and think that crude odds/risk is easily comparable across broad categories. It is not. You are doing the right thing in getting another helmet. 

post #34 of 43

To the question of the OP.......

POC's are very good helmets and have a level of protection to be rivaled by the best, however, they have  a unique fit and you would be well served to try a few on before buying. 

I really like the look and color choices in the POC line but after trying several of them on I have decided that I just don't have a POC head. 

post #35 of 43

With regard to the off topic in the thread
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidude72 View Post





Huh?

 

You can rap off all the safety features you like, but the bottom line is, according to Wiki at least, in 2004 45,800 people were killed in the USA alone from traffic accidents.  Globally the figure was 2.2million!

 

Your response does not consider before airbags?  What about the back seat?  What about the passenger seat (some have airbags, some dont)?  Crumple zones are only for headons, what about side or rear impacts?  ABS all you like the facts say otherwise.  Space frames?  My googles have a space frame.

 

I also love your "flying down the hill with a hundred other crazy people is hardly the same thing".  Again huh?  WHERE DO YOU SKI??????????????????  I will avoid that place for sure.  A hemlut wont save you, just dont go there.  Where I ski, and have ever skied, people ski in control, or get tossed, just like drivng a car. 50mph? Not likely.  Most never ever get close to those speeds, if you do...yes by all means wear a helmut, but please do not ski like that on an open run where your reckless behvaiour will endanger myself and the rest of the skiing public.  

 

What I like about skiing, is if I do get in a collision it wont be with a hard steel car weighing 1000s of kilos at 200km/hr, it will be with another relativley soft human weighing roughly what I do at somwhere between 1 to maybe 25kmhr max.  Ski faster then 25km/hr?  Sure, dont drive at 200km/hr?  Sure.  But remember in a collosion you are dealing with "impact velocity".  In a headon car crash, if you are going 100km/hr, and car coming at you is doing the same, impact velocity is 200km/hr.  In skiing everyone moves the same direction.  No one is skiing up the hill!   You are right, big difference.

 

 

 

As for your organ donor fear mongering....sorry but I just cant accept that.  It is ignorant and detrimental to the sport.

 

More stats:

Deaths associated with skiing in Australia: a 32-year study of cases from the Snowy Mountains.

Sherry E, Clout L.

Baulkham Hills Private Hospital, NSW.

Abstract

We present the first study of skiing-related deaths in Australia--a 32-year study of skiing-related deaths in the Snowy Mountains. We have reported 29 such cases; eight subjects died of trauma, 15 subjects died of cardiovascular causes, and six subjects died of hypothermia. The over-all incidence of death was 0.87 deaths per million skier-days; the specific incidence for trauma-related deaths was 0.24 deaths per million skier-days; for cardiac-related deaths was 0.45 deaths per million skier-days; and for hypothermia-related deaths was 0.18 deaths per million skier-days. These findings compare most-favourably with US figures. Death that is associated with skiing in the Snowy Mountains is a rare event.

alright firstly i agree that you shouldnt accept things because you are fed them, but also consider that in theory it helps you learn from others mistakes.

 

It certainly does not apply to helmets. rewind two years ago hot shot me got a little ice patch on a double black tree trail going 30+(mph for the), my face had rough sex with a tree lets put it that way. Although I'm still beautiful, had I not intercepted the tree with my hands, chest and forehead(hardest part of the skull) i would probably be a famous blood spatter. And unless I'm mistaken the vast majority of the worlds skiiers do not ski in Australia year round. Get some Alps, Canada or even better Eastern US stats.

No detriment to Snowboarders as a species but how many times do you get a pack of idiots who sit in the middle of a trail simultaneously and take out 1 or 2 people behind them. If you haven't seen it first hand I'll video it and put it on youtube. So you really cant make any argument against helmets unless they fund terrorism, or you have a HEY ARNOLD head.


OP

I think i had a Bolle at some point (before I decided helmets were for squares) and I really liked it and they have models that meet all your specs that I read, check them out I think theyre cheaper than poc. They come with my

post #36 of 43



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Highlander View Post

With regard to the off topic in the thread
 

alright firstly i agree that you shouldnt accept things because you are fed them, but also consider that in theory it helps you learn from others mistakes.

 

It certainly does not apply to helmets. rewind two years ago hot shot me got a little ice patch on a double black tree trail going 30+(mph for the), my face had rough sex with a tree lets put it that way. Although I'm still beautiful, had I not intercepted the tree with my hands, chest and forehead(hardest part of the skull) i would probably be a famous blood spatter. And unless I'm mistaken the vast majority of the worlds skiiers do not ski in Australia year round. Get some Alps, Canada or even better Eastern US stats.

No detriment to Snowboarders as a species but how many times do you get a pack of idiots who sit in the middle of a trail simultaneously and take out 1 or 2 people behind them. If you haven't seen it first hand I'll video it and put it on youtube. So you really cant make any argument against helmets unless they fund terrorism, or you have a HEY ARNOLD head.


OP

I think i had a Bolle at some point (before I decided helmets were for squares) and I really liked it and they have models that meet all your specs that I read, check them out I think theyre cheaper than poc. They come with my


I generally have a rule about not responding to <insert derogatory term of your choice> but in your case I have decided to make an exception.

 

Get some US stats you say?  REREAD WHAT I POSTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   I EVEN BOLDED THE BIT THAT SAYS US STATS MATCHED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Also go back and re-read my other comments.  If you choose to ski recklessely in high risk areas, by all means wear a helmet.  If you race, or do aerials, big mountain lines at speed, wear a hemet there too.  No issue.  But ditch the one size fits all approach, that the helmet nazi's preach.  It is bull.  Most skiers never leave the blue groomers and ski under 25kph...they dont need helmets.  It is ridiculous.  The counter argument to this point is always the same, yes most people are at extremely low risk of head injury, but a helmet makes you safer still, so why not?  I dont have the answer....so I have asked YOU....if you beleive in the why not be even safer if you can be....why not wear a helmet ALL the time??????????????????

 

Still waiting for you knowledagble helmet advocates to provide an answer.  So far I get war stories of some crash, or descriptions of blood stained souveniers proudly displayed as signs of manhood, or worse personal attacks designed to discredit my question. 

 

The fact is you have no answer.....of course feel free to prove me wrong and provide one.

post #37 of 43

I currently use 2 different helmets. My head is more of the oblong type I guess. The Swans HSR-61 is very comfortable, and is warmer since it doesn't have removable ear flaps. The Uvex X-Ride Motion fits like a glove, but is not quite as warm. If it happens to matter to anyone, this particular Swans helmet is made in Japan, and the Uvex X-Ride is made in Germany.

 

09_swa_hsr61_spbk.jpgxride motion_black.jpg

post #38 of 43

Presumably you're talking about my posting.  A -- I said it was hanging there to remind me of what might have been.  YOU might hang it up to display YOUR "manhood", I clearly said it was because I was stupid.  B -- Get your facts straight.  If I'm worrying about my "manhood", my husband is in trouble. 

 

And Highlander, why did you have to sidetrack this thread again?  There are several other helmet threads where you could have gotten into it with this guy, just quoting his post over there.  Thanks.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidude72 View Post.  So far I get war stories of some crash, or descriptions of blood stained souveniers proudly displayed as signs of manhood, or worse personal attacks designed to discredit my question. 

 

The fact is you have no answer.....of course feel free to prove me wrong and provide one.


Edited by sibhusky - 10/27/10 at 8:59am
post #39 of 43
Thread Starter 

Look, I really don't care if you do or don't wear a helmet.  I was just looking for some specific advice.  To those that gave it, thank you for the recommendations.

post #40 of 43

Hey, look what I just got in email from Race Place!  An ad for POC helmets with the following explanation of their helmet thinking.  I thought it might be instructive for Rauch.

 

 

Quote from RacePlace:
POC - Safety is "Head" first.

   Winning a Gold Medal in the 2006 Winter Olympics gave POC recognition in the ski racing world and they used that platform to change the way we look at helmets.
With all the reports of head injuries in athletics the skiing public has become concerned about head protection in ski racing.

POC Helmets

  For many years the concept of head protection was a hard outer shell and shock absorbing EPS liner. POC tested this concept and found two major problems. A rigid outer shell upon impact would suddenly stop while the brain would continue moving. Secondly, the EPS (Expanded PolyStyrene) was found to absorb a shock through plastic deformation that was permanent which means it doesn't return to it's original form and is not effective for repetitive impacts. Even high speed gate hits can cause enough impact to permanently compact an EPS liner.

   POC's first approach was to design a semi rigid outer shell that flexes and deforms upon impact to absorb much of the deceleration to protect the brain. With this new concept there were issues in finding the balance between an outer shell that was flexible and one that was breakable. POC has obviously found that balance based on the durability the past several seasons.

   The next thing POC did was to find an inner liner to replace the single impact EPS. Two years ago they changed over to EPP (Expanded PolyPropylene). EPP looks similar to EPS, but it absorbs repetitive impacts without permanent deformation.

    POC's emphasis on safety has created such a demand for their helmets that last season we were sold out of most sizes by early December. This run on helmets was unprecedented in the fifteen years of Race Place and we increased our POC orders substantially. Early season demand is pointing to another sell-out especially with Bode Miller now topping off his gear with POC on his head.
post #41 of 43

I dont know how deep in nowhere you are, but consider making a trip to a shop if its less than like 40 miles, otherwise maybe even wait til the next time you get to a mountain and buy from one of the local shops, if the helmet doesnt feel right, you will not be having a good time.

post #42 of 43
Thread Starter 

There are shops, just not with the kind of helmet I want.

post #43 of 43

Well, my recommendation is to order the POC online, try it on and see how it goes NOW....BEFORE THE SEASON STARTS, so that you have plenty of time for the returns and re-tries.  The stock levels for race helmets are much better now than they will be in just two weeks.

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