Originally Posted by Metaphor_
Ray--what school/system is that? In your system your inside ski seems to support your weight at slower speeds. It's definitely not CSIA, and from the PMTS lesson I took it's also not PMTS.
I liked your demos. I'm not sure if I can apply it in my ski school as weighting the inside ski is not currently a general skiing best practice in CSIA (aside from during specific drills)--I think there's also a need for flagging speed control issues if your learner's weight isn't on the outside ski when they invariably bring themselves to terrain currently beyond their comfort level. That said, I can imagine how the technique will look once you start skiing at faster speeds... if those guys in your "Carving Aspen" video are any indication. Wowza.
The “In-rigger” progression was developed as a way to teach what can be referred to as “Pure Carving”. (the strict definition of this would be; The tip middle and tail of the ski passing through the same points in the snow) It is difficult to teach someone to use only edge and pressure to control the ski as the rotational input component has been so well ingrained from the first day. (see Note below)
To carve a turn the student must commit to the turn and yet be patient and allow it to happen. Many find it difficult to blend these two concepts which seems to be mutually exclusive but are part of the carved turn.
The skier must commit to the turn in order to get a high enough edge angle to allow the ski to carve while at the same time must be patient and inhibit the desire to twist the ski in response to the acceleration they feel as they begin to enter the fall line.
We found that using what we call an "in-rigger" the skier could get the high edge angle (a commitment) at a low speed without compromising the proper body position they would need later to move to more dynamic skiing. Of course once the high edge angle is achieved twisting the ski won't do much even though they may try.
The video is from a DVD we gave to our alignment clients after we set up their boots. It is intended to help them better understand the body positions necessary to deal effectively with the loads and forces developed in modern skiing.
Note: though the speed (a constant) they are traveling is well within their comfort range it is the acceleration (open ended) that they have difficulty with. The exponential component, i.e., 4mph then in a few seconds 8mph then in another few seconds headed towards 16mph is enough data for their mind to extrapolate that 32mph shortly followed by 64mph and 128mph can't be far off so putting on the brakes (skid, twist the ski or whatever you want to call it) is their default position and is better applied sooner rather than later. If you recall they most likely learned the Double Twisting Opposing Skidded Safety Position (DTOSSP or more commonly called the snow plow) on day one.
Originally Posted by mmckimson
As a slow-speed drill I think this exercise is fine. It would be interesting to see what this instructor would say to do as the student ramps up the speed and intensity.
I think the following quote from L&AirC may have cleared this up. If it is still a question let me know. Thanks
Originally Posted by L&AirC
I think he does this only for the drill. I listened to the video again and between 2:50 and 3:50 he talks to this. Closer to 3:50 he talks about how at speed the "in-rigger" will close the gap with the outside leg.
Originally Posted by Ghost
It looks like an interesting alternative to the snow plow. Notice the "in-rigger" isn't carving. I wonder if it would lead to skiers not carving the inside ski, keeping too more weight than they should on the inside ski, and banking. Every method has it's potential problems, especially if student's don't return for more lessons.
Ray, have you got an example of higher end lessons?
It is more of an alternative to the “Railroad Track Drill” used to teach or demo carved turns. The problem with the drill is that with skis at hip width, the skier cannot, at slow speeds achieve high enough edge angles to carve without rotating legs and knees into a position that will not hold up to the loads of dynamic carving. (see min. 1:15 in video) As speed increases the pressure on the outside ski also increases and weight naturally transfers from the in-rigger to the carving ski. The inside ski then is free to be placed in a matching position and edged and weighted as needed.
Originally Posted by Jamt
Yes, its a drill called Gorilla turns, used to introduce counter and hip angulation.
As Ken points out below the “In-rigger Turn” differs in method and purpose from other similar turns we may be familiar with.
Originally Posted by L&AirC
I thought the Gorilla turns are when you have a wide stance and use your upper body to turn. Cowboy turns are closer but are an on edge (both), wide stance turn. In this drill you are carving one ski at a time and being supported by the non carving ski. Yo can see that in the tracks when he demos the edge change (5:35 - 5:50 with a real good view post 6:00). It looks like he is getting people to feel and align themselves to a high edge carved turn at slow speed; one leg at a time. To get both skis at that angle takes a bit of speed and momentum.
Nice stuff. Liked the Carving Aspen videos too.
I am glad you enjoyed. You are very observant and seem to have a good eye for detail based on your comments. Thanks for your help with some of the clarifications.
Did you have a chance to view any of the “Study of Skiing” videos? http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=raycantu401#p/u/2/k4n3oJbx9UM If so I would be interested in your thoughts.