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Kastle MX78 - plate or no plate debate

post #1 of 28
Thread Starter 

Curious what the general feeling is amongst the bears for skis that come both flat or with a binding plate combination.  What does the plate (in general) offer?  Is is similar to adding a racing plate to a flat GS race ski?  Would you add it to improve/change the angle of attack to the edges?  Have been thinking about adding the Kastle MX 78 to the quiver, but most of the reviews don't mention whether the ski was demo'd with the plate or flat.

 

So, two questions.  First, specifically wondering if anyone has skied the MX 78 in both the flat and plate version and which you prefered (and why)?  Second would be the more general question, as Kastle isn't the only manufacturer that offers skis in two binding configuration, what do you expect adding a plate to do to the skiing behavior of a ski?

post #2 of 28

Plate, at least for me. I have skied it both ways. The KTi plates are one of the few performance plates that not only dampen and smooth out a ski on hard snow, it is still keeps the characteristics of the ski. More and more manufacturers are offering skis w/ and w/o systems. K2 does with the AMP series (they did with the Apache's too), Blizzard you can get the Mag 8.1 and 8.7 w/ sliders or bindings> Salomon was going to offer the Enduro either way but decided to offer the ski just flat. 

post #3 of 28

I prefer plates/lifters.  Even on twin tips.  All the cool kids say I shouldn't do that.  I do it anyway.

post #4 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by FujativeOCR View Post

I prefer plates/lifters.  Even on twin tips.  All the cool kids say I shouldn't do that.  I do it anyway.


You rebel, you. 

post #5 of 28

Plate. I've skied it with Mojo 15s mounted flat, with the KTi plate and I bought a pair flat and mounted a Marker Piston plate on it. I like the Piston plate because it feels stronger and more powerful and I can adjust the toe height on my bindings, but the flex of the ski feels more natural with the KTi which is a really excellent plate.

post #6 of 28
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post

 The KTi plates are one of the few performance plates that not only dampen and smooth out a ski on hard snow, it is still keeps the characteristics of the ski.

 

Interesting note, Phil.  From everything I've read about the MX78, it's already very smooth, damp ride.  I would gather that you feel the plate adds to this, but not to the point of being detremental to the ski.

 

Quote:
  but the flex of the ski feels more natural with the KTi which is a really excellent plate.

 

I was wondering how the plate worked on the flex of the ski.  The race plates I've put on my GS skis have had a noticable impact on the ski's flex characteristics, especially in comparison to those 'system' skis where the binding is built into the ski.

post #7 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tag View Post

 

 

I was wondering how the plate worked on the flex of the ski.  The race plates I've put on my GS skis have had a noticable impact on the ski's flex characteristics, especially in comparison to those 'system' skis where the binding is built into the ski.

The KTi is locked in the middle and floats at both ends. I have my Piston plate setup in floaty mode, and it still affects the flex more than the KTi (which could be a good thing if that's what you want).
 

post #8 of 28

^^^^This sounds as if it's the same as any carving plate that's disarticulated, slides as the ski flexes so that binding toe and heel can move. Vist, Tyrolia make these, for instance. So is the main difference ball bearings? 

post #9 of 28

No ball bearings. I think the main thing that distinguishes it's feel is how short it's footprint is. Anyway, I've skied it in those three configurations, and they are all different.

post #10 of 28

So is the plate available separately if you have the skis already?

post #11 of 28

Can't say 100%, but I think it is. My local shop just got a KTi jig, so I assume that means they are expecting shops to be mounting them.

post #12 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by RatherPlayThanWork View Post

So is the plate available separately if you have the skis already?



 

The KTi is a plate and binding system, there is a dedicated binding that only works with the plate/ the plate only works with the binding. Sure, you could mount it on any ski, but you need the binding and the plate... so from a cost standpoint, buy the ski with the plate if you want the system.

post #13 of 28

The KTi is available as a stand alone binding/plate combo for MX70 and 78's. The RX series will be coming with them. I have been half tempted to try the KTi on my MX88. 

post #14 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyson Rockwood View Post
The KTi is a plate and binding system, there is a dedicated binding that only works with the plate/ the plate only works with the binding. Sure, you could mount it on any ski, but you need the binding and the plate... so from a cost standpoint, buy the ski with the plate if you want the system.


I was under the impression that Kastles contrasted to Nordicas, K2's, Elans, and other "system" models where the plate is part of the ski body. Far as I know, the plate is the same whether you mount it or the factory; in fact not clear to me what "comes with" means here. Is the plate attached at the factory, or is the box just with the ski? Phil/SJ? 

 

As far as cost standpoint, a Kastle flat still retails for over 1K.  You might get a discount on the KTi with a Kastle and still pay more total than a KTi+plate on another ski. More to the point, still need to be convinced that it's markedly superior to other plates with bindings of your choice. Subtext: Not a big Marker fan anymore. (But I'll settle the debate with a free demo. Anyone?  )

post #15 of 28

Beyond, yes the plate system from Kastle is a plate mounted onto a flat ski. It isn't built into the ski, but the binding is integrated into the plate... it is a special Marker binding that will only integrate with the KTi plate. So the plate could be installed on any flat ski, but only the Marker KTi binding will work with the plate and the Marker KTi binding can't be used alone.

 

Come to Stowe, I'll let you try an MX78 with plate and without, head-to-head... for free.

post #16 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post

 I have been half tempted to try the KTi on my MX88. 


If/when I get MX88s they will be plated.

post #17 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post

Come to Stowe, I'll let you try an MX78 with plate and without, head-to-head... for free.


If you have a 315 BSL, make it a three way with the Piston plate. You'll find all three to be different.

post #18 of 28

Hey Epic, my BSL is 315. Is there any chance of a free lift ticket and lunch too?

post #19 of 28

On a more serious note, has anyone ever tried the Tyrolia/Head Railflex on the MX 78?

post #20 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac View Post

Hey Epic, my BSL is 315. Is there any chance of a free lift ticket and lunch too?


Lift ticket sure, it'd be fun to ski with you again.

post #21 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac View Post

On a more serious note, has anyone ever tried the Tyrolia/Head Railflex on the MX 78?



I'm surprised this isn't the binding system of choice anyway, if the Kastles are indeed built in the Head factory...

post #22 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post




Lift ticket sure, it'd be fun to ski with you again.

 

Deal. Lunch is on me.

 

post #23 of 28



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FujativeOCR View Post





I'm surprised this isn't the binding system of choice anyway, if the Kastles are indeed built in the Head factory...


It's my understanding that Kastle only leases the factory from Head, therefore, they would be free to get their binding system from anyone they wanted. I also understand that you can mount any binding system to the MX 78 that you want, there is nothing pre drilled from the factory. I'm just not a big fan of Marker bindings, but I have had a handful of skis with the Tyrolia Railflex that have worked very well. I was just curious to know if anyone has tried it yet. Probably impossible to find a pair to demo with anything but Marker, if you wanted the Railflex, you would probably just have to take a leap of faith and buy them that way.

post #24 of 28

Actually, Whiteroom had Mojo 15s on most of his demos last year.

post #25 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by FujativeOCR View Post





I'm surprised this isn't the binding system of choice anyway, if the Kastles are indeed built in the Head factory...



Railflex is old hat anyway.... its PowerRail for 10/11.... with two types of base (Standard and Pro), two sizes of dampener (narrow and wide) and four binding models - DIN 10, 11, 12 and 14. The plate is wider and lower than Railflex and has only one pair of fixed screws, three pairs gliding (as opposed to Railflex which is 2 fixed, 2 gliding). I liked Railflex (and Tyrolia in general) so I'm looking forward to getting acquainted with this new offering.

 

Between PowerRail, the KTi plate and the Blizzard system there's a quiet revolution going on in "almost system-"bindings.

post #26 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post

Actually, Whiteroom had Mojo 15s on most of his demos last year.



I've skied the Head IM/Peak 78's with Mojo's and the Railflex, and I much prefer the Railflex. I think the Mojo is better suited for what it was intended for, park and pipe. If/when I get a pair of Mx 78's, I'll probably just go with the Marker setup, anyway. My dislike for Marker is based on a pair I had over ten years ago, and probably has little to do with today's stuff, and I'm not going to be racing on them anyway. Plus Phil says that the Marker system enhances the skis performance, and I'm sure he's skied them enough to know. Besides, they would probably have more resale value down the road with the binding system they were packaged with.

post #27 of 28

 

I say try them first, depends on your skiing reallly.  I found the MX78 (no plates) very smooth, but kinda "girly".  So if I put a plate I would be looking for some extra "umph" out it.  So depends on you, if you are a lighter skier or looking for a ski that is a little easier to ski then a full bore machine like the 88s, the 78 is a good choice as is, no plate. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post


If/when I get MX88s they will be plated.


My daily driver is the MX88...serioulsy ski these before thinking about a plate.  The bindings with the Marker Jester binding has plenty of lift, and these skis are real beefy with tons of edge grip, and no speed limit...they feel like a true GS race stock ski....with real off road capability.  The 88s are some of the best skis I have ever owned...I definatley would NOT add a plate.
 

post #28 of 28

That's the thing I don't like about the Mojo. It sits close to the ski with very little lift. Not saying that this is a flaw, it was originally intended to be mounted on the twin tips, Don't see many guys really laying them over in the pipe, so the extra leverage isn't necessary or even desireable. However, for any everyday all mountain ski, I would prefer something witha little more lift whether it had a plate or not.

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