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"Breakthrough on the New skis." - Page 2

post #31 of 53

So in other words, what you're saying is, as long as someone doesn't make too much noise, and still kisses up to the gang, you approve.
post #32 of 53
those instructors / teachers that inspire and teach so well, know they do so and still check their ego's at their car to share in their passion are the guru's. Doesn't matter which camp they are from.
post #33 of 53
Nope, Harald is free to do as he pleases. The opportunity to exploit the principles of free enterprise is open territory in ski teaching. The fact that, as discussed ad infinitum, there is nothing new there and ski instruction can be repackaged, Mad Avenued and given a glossy shine to attract people predisposed to that kind of stimulus is a great business move.
I like most pros I know, do this for quality of life issues which may be foreign to you. Most I know, could make significantly (3-4 times) more out of snowcountry. I guess we are talking underlying motivation here. Skiing to me is intensely personal. I gravitate to those whose motivation is the same. The paycheck pays the bills, I hope my efforts change the quality of peoples lives.
I am not questioning Haralds personal motivations here but, on the spectrum from altruism to profitabilty....well.
If the passion truly came from something revolutionary,different, unheard of that transcended ski teaching as we know it, and no one in PSIA got it or listened, I would understand his motivation. Passion or profit?
I don't mean do diminish this forum continuing the same debate, but really SCSA what you got from Harald you could have sought from a pro in Aspen, Hunter.......it ain't new and some of it's technical basis is in denial.
post #34 of 53

That's why I started my company - I'm unemployable.


What's wrong with making some dough ray me? BTW, they ain't making any.
post #35 of 53
Absolutely nothing!
post #36 of 53

What I got/get from HSS I can't get anywhere else.

Robin, I'm a consumer. Sure, I'm a Harb idiot, but that's only because it's worked so well. I really don't care if it's not new and I've come to Jesus, basically saying that it ain't all new. Heck, Harald will admit to that. But until I see someone else that offers something even close, how about unique? I ordered the Ellen video. Not cuz I'm going to practice her stuff, but because I want to be informed. So I can't comment yet. But I've seen/checked out just about everything else.

It ain't just me Robin. I may/am be one of the most militant ones, but there's lots of skiers who've seen big improvement through the cult. Some of them hang out here. You're wrong about his passion. That man wants to see skiers ski great. He wants to make some buckaroos too...don't we all?

Does your pro in Aspen have videos, books, a web site? Other instructors that I can tap into that teach the exact same thing? I don't think so. He's a one man band. I'm sure he's a pro, and I'm sure he's great...

We don't want to get off on a tangent, cuz it's been done ad nauseum (hey, I learned a new word)...
post #37 of 53

Funny. My people yell at me all the time. They've found the one place they can work
post #38 of 53
Robin, Besides spending a week with Harald I also spent a week with Lito, which I enjoyed. What's the difference between them? Lito is selling books and videos and, in a sense, Lito's "way" of getting skiers out of the intermediate rut.
Why not promote something you spent significant time an energy to develop, or streamline. Maybe you are just presenting it in a faster more efficient way.
post #39 of 53
Good question...and by the way, I am all for re-packaging (promotional marketing)lessons!
Even on Lito's website he implores people to try different approaches and find out what works. Use your intuition, your curiosity then go with what clicks.
Harald has not hesitated to demean (while copying) ATS and PSIA....of course he does not hesitate to mention he was on the demo team....a point in his resume for credibility.
Comparitive marketing is fine....I just like Lito's approach better. He is comfortable in his own skin and system.
post #40 of 53
I can live with that. Maybe Lito has been following his own star longer than Harald.
post #41 of 53
Robin has it in for Harb. He/she/it and Barnes need to have a pow wow and compare insults.

Robin, it looks like you're on the "Been crapped on by Harb" list, eh? What did he say to you? Did he call you stupid? Say your turns were lousy?

For the record, Robin. I wouldn't crap on you, you're my favorite turd

I'll say this. Looking back, the gang bashing will go down as being a huge tactical mistake by HH. At first I didn't think so. Now, I do.

This industry is full of gatekeepers and age old tenets, albeit most of them wrong.

But, if you're going to take on something as big as Harald has, in an industry with the makeup of this one (i.e, lots of good old boys), you have to be a little more friendly. I'm not talking butt kissing here. I'm thinking more in the lines of "How to Win Friends and Influence People". And this is coming from a guy who argues with his banker.
post #42 of 53
Harald can be a pistol, but his motives are good. He is a bit intense and competitive, but it's because of his passion. I agree, it does not always serve him well. That's why he has and needs other people in his organization. To schmoozle a bit.

He is not a bad person, but people do take him the wrong way. Personally, I happen to like him, and I take his TTS bashing with a large grain of salt. Well maybe salt on the rim of the margarita glass...

I have other friends and collegues like that... I accept them on their merits, and bark back at them when they are being mean. Usually shuts them up. If not, I go away for a while, and come back later. Life is to short to spend it arguing all the time. Go DO something constructive.

Altruism sucks, because if you are in that mindset, people will depend on you too much. A person can easily lose himself in the needs of others. For a lot of us, this causes great stress and resentment. Dependance is bad, unless it's mutually agreed upon. As in "$". Maybe loved ones and family are an exception, depends on the family, right?

Benevolance, on the other hand, is a good thing. Harald could use more of that to his advantage. A benevolant (but assertive) position is needed. That's the mark of a leader. There is a big difference (thank you Nathaniel Brandon) between benevolance and altruism, get it?

The "servant leader" approach is wonderful for teaching, but is not quite right to be a "mover and a shaker".

My training with Harald and company ROCKED, and I learned a lot. The training was some of the best I ever had. That and the University of Breckenridge... all "fit" within ATS and PSIA, but in both cases the training was better than I have ever received at a PSIA event.

Leaving Aspen now, WHEW, what a week!

Visit me here >>>SnoKarver

<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by SnoKarver (edited August 30, 2001).]</FONT>
post #43 of 53
>>I guess my point is, and I think Tog was agreeing, that an instructor must demo accurately, a coach gives technically astute verbal cues and tactics (puts out his cigarette and hits you with his pole...flashback interuptus).<< Robin

I do agree. A good coach watches everything like a hawk and can zero in on what the skier needs to do. The path to get there may be a winding road though that they don't let you know about.
An instructor teaching you something definitely has to demo it accurately in my mind. Of course there's no sharp division between coaching and teaching.

Here's a good example of coaching:
From the article on Diana Golden linked to by dchan in general ski section:

>>“She was strong-minded, so it was always my
game to get her to think a new technique or style was actually her idea
so she’d try it. I recently confessed to her that I had lied...."
-Jennifer Zanca was Golden’s coach from 1988 until she retired from ski
racing in 1991. <<

As for the Harb thing I agree with Pierre. That and this ridiculous wedge obsession that he has just to differentiate himself. I can see the trying to differentiate yourself but when you start making ridiculous statements about things you end up just looking foolish and it's hard to back track.

Scsa, you might be interested in knowing that Isolde Kostner (a top Italian racer) spent close to a week this summer in Les2Alpes doing excercises in a wedge. hmmmm....<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by Tog (edited August 30, 2001).]</FONT>
post #44 of 53

Couldn't agree with you more.

It's just like with cable tv, railroads, automobiles, dot coms, any other "next big thing". The first guys always end up with arrows in their backs.
post #45 of 53
Obviously, SCSA/WACKO/PAUL,Avery,Tom,Deacon,Harry...you struggle with gender assignment and are easily confused by androgynous names...not to mention shiny objects. Have a coupla pulls on the ol' single malt between posts?
I have no personal issues with Harald, merely professional disagreement. My limited history with him has been pleasant, fun and productive. I respect Harald's background and knowledge as I have indicated. I do not appreciate his business tactics, but do support his effort in simplifying and packaging a viable learning program.
Harald is a pro and obviously would not call me or my turns stupid out of professional courtesy and mutual respect. In your case he probably refrained because he was in your pocket.
post #46 of 53

Androg 'o what?

Can you puhleeeeeze keep it simple and get back to painting by numbers! I'm still trying to find those books that Gonz keeps bringing up.
post #47 of 53
Robin, Are you anywhere near Altadena?
post #48 of 53
When I was in my 30s and early 40s I used to think it was all "black and white". Nowdays(almost 60)I realize there's lots of ways to"skin a cat". One of my mentors from my early days used to say "whenever someone tells you somthing, even if it seems wrong, try it, then you'll know what works and what doesn't". Not everyone "gets it" the way I say it. I always encourage people to try other ways. The main thing is that they do get it.
There's not enough money to get me to get up at 5:00 AM and hike the hill to set a trainer or stay up half the night shaving and plastic welding a pair of boots. The smile on a kids face when they acheive their goal is the only thing that's worth that. In my auto repair business there's always someone who wants to make others look bad. Those are the ones to look out for. There's plenty of work for everyone, you don't have to cheat or knock others to get your share. Just do a good job and word gets around. When the telemarketers call and ask, "who handles your advertising" my answer is,"my satisfied customers". I gave up on employees though, I spent all my time making sure the work fit my standards. Now I know it does.
Robin I hear you, it's about passion, not just money.
post #49 of 53
Sorry, SCSA, monosyllabic grunts from now on! May make grocery shopping tough, but sleep?
Lucky, I don't even know where Altadena is! If it is accessed by what they call the freeway system here I wouldn't know how to find it....I am hiding in the trees!<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by Robin (edited August 31, 2001).]</FONT>
post #50 of 53

Altadena and Wrightwood are near enough each other as the crow flies, a straight little line along San Gabriel Mountain ridgetops, but not so close via car.

on the map, Altadena is pretty much at PASADENA...

www.skisocal.org/sg/ <FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by ryan (edited August 31, 2001).]</FONT>
post #51 of 53
Pretty tough to buy groceries with passion.
post #52 of 53
Someone mentioned HH and Aspen. Didn't they have a short marriage until HH decided they were not following the gospel of PMTS and he moved on? I think Berg was involved with the whole thing at the time.

I had the privilege, and I mean that sincerely, of skiing with HH for a day along with the top brass in our SS. Talk about feeling like a fish out of water! While I am not totaly sold on PMTS or ATS or.... there is some very good thinking in his alignment and teaching approach and his certification levels except the certfication is written in a manner that seems to demean instructors that are not teaching at big mountains. The problem I had with HH is he never got off his "beat up PSIA" menatlity. Also he reminded me of a dog that won't quit hunting. A for instance he would swear there is no rotary movement in skiing. He and I had a conversation concerning this on a chair ride. Now I understand there may be some concession on the rotary in skiing so he may be changing his approach.

It is very unfortunate politics and personalities got in the way of HH and PSIA. Maybe more unfortunate for PSIA than HH. Yet if you think about it PSIA has moved forward inpart due to his criticism and HH somehow is making a living doing his thing.

Maybe in the end we will all win.

"May the force be in your mind and not in your skis."
post #53 of 53
I know, but I sleep pretty well and I'm not starving.
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