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"Breakthrough on the New skis."

post #1 of 53
Thread Starter 
I reserved Lito's latest publication at www.amazon.com Total cost for the paper back [ which looks to be over sized ] $17.95 including S&H. Anticipated release date is November 9, 2001.
post #2 of 53
Thread Starter 
I just received an email from Lito,and he sounds very excited about his new up coming publication. The last of the art work went to the publisher a few days ago, and the book seems tracked for an on time release.

Lito is looking for feed back from skiers about his latest endeavor.

So I guess it will be sometime in November, maybe sooner, if Lito offers it from his web site before Amazon.com.
post #3 of 53
I bought his latest video.

Kind of watered down PMTS.

I thought the first part of the video dragged on a little. There's some really good skiing in it, towards the end.

I admire him and his work. He's pushing the envelope and I'm all for people like him. He has a passion for skiing and has a sincere interest in seeing skiers improve. I'd recommend it for green/blue skiers, as an introduction to PMTS.
post #4 of 53
Thread Starter 

Lito's web site has a past article about a dinner with Harald Harb. So I believe they not only respect each other but like each other as well. There seems to be no anomosity or competitiveness as to who is better or has the better teaching methods.
post #5 of 53

Yes, I saw the article.

I've mentioned to Harald and Diana that I thought Lito and them should merge. Lito has a very strong presence in Aspen and there are a lot of instructors there who are already teaching PMTS.
post #6 of 53
I too am waiting for this book. I will probably try to get it direct from Lito since I want to give some copies to my dad and uncle. I wanted them signed since Lito has skied with both of them.

I'm looking forward to reading his new book.
post #7 of 53
So dchan.

Do you train with Lito?
post #8 of 53
I don't train with any one person. I take what works for me and chalk the rest up to experience and store it in the corners of my memory.. The more I know about skiing, the better I get at it.
post #9 of 53
Mammothcruzer loaned me his copy of Lito's video "The New Skis". I must say, I was a bit shocked by Lito's skiing. I really expected such a high profile instructor to be a more technical skier. Is he full cert? His stance is fairly back, he never flexes his ankles, and he banks and rotates all over the place. His extension is straight up at best, he never seems to extend down the hill. He talks about carved turns while demoing a skidded one. He refers to his wife as being an expert skier, but I just don't see it. Her stance is a bit less back than Litos, but come on! The content of the lesson was ok. I am not real big on teaching a step, but hey, I guess teaching unnesesary movements gives you something to sell the next lesson. Although, I am not sure Lito can actually roll his edges, and not step. I have always enjoyed reading Lito's mag articles, and books, like "Wilderness Skiing", I guess I am just a little disapointed that such a prolific instructor is a very average skier.
post #10 of 53

I was waiting for someone else to say that. But, you don't have to be a great skier in order to be a great teacher.

But didn't you think the skiing at the end was good though? What did you think of Harald's skiing?
post #11 of 53
post #12 of 53
Yea, I would agree that you don't have to be a great skier to be a great teacher. But, I do belive your own skiig dictates what you can teach well. It is hard to teach something you cannot demo. I hope people who buy his video don't copy his skiing too much, talk about learning bad habits. I was just really surprised by Lito's skiing. Honestly, I had to wonder if he ever works on his own skiing, as it seems like it would be fairly easy for him to improve. Heck, some of his friend rip, and are great instructors. Maybe a few privates....
post #13 of 53
I will always give the benefit of doubt based upon age and history of injury....but, gee Lito...glad I didn't bring it up..but...
As for Harb, no comment....although I know alot of "gurus" and examiners who sometimes make me shake my head. Once again, age and history....
On the other hand there is in my mind, a difference between a "coach" and a "teacher", perhaps they evolve toward "coach". As a "teacher" it is kind tough to skip over the "Demonstrating" part of the teaching model.<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by Robin (edited August 28, 2001).]</FONT>
post #14 of 53
Haven't seen the video but all that banking sounds incredibly lame. As a top level instructor you should be above that.
Apparently the best coaches on the world cup have not been all that great a racer. But there you're dealing with highly skilled athletes who can make changes quickly. You get them to do things that will improve what your after. This might be rather rudimentary and it might just have to do with perception rather than technique (skiing in fog etc.) Coaches don't have to demo the perfect turn but need to see what has to happen for the athlete to get there.

An instructor who's teaching a wide range of skills certainly needs to demo and better demo right. Demonstrate banking and that's what people will do. What do you say "Do as I say and not as I do"? I don't see that working.
From the littl video I've seen of Harald he's obviously an excellent skier. You can tell from that picture of he and his son skiing off that cornice (posted in another thread) that he can ski anywhere, anytime, anyhow. I don't think anyone's ever questioned Harald's skiing. This Lito thing is a surprise...
post #15 of 53
If you watch the video, Lito isn't saying "Ski like me", so I think it's unfair that we criticize him too much about his skiing.

What he's doing is promoting new (Barnes, it's that "new" word that bugs you so much) technique. Mostly, he points to the other skiers in the video and says, "Watch them".

Are you a gang member or a gang leader? And, do you have the video? If so, your impression of the skiers.
post #16 of 53
I don't think Lito is really saying what he is teaching is new. In fact he brings in other pros to demonstrate much of his thoughts. From what I get from his emails is that he has watched and taken from what he thinks is the best of the best skiers and looked at what things they do in common. He then tried to break down those skills into easy to understand instructions. I think his main thing is that it take's time to develop skills and 2 hrs a day 5 times a year of lessons is not enough to engrain habits so the camps are minimum 5 days and that alone weeds out the luke warm skiers. It takes a commitment.

on another note, I think he taught at Squaw valley with my Uncle which puts him late 50s at the youngest and most likely in his mid 60s so I suspect his skiing reflects a lot of his age. He was probably never an world class athlete but has I think has brought a great deal of passion to the sport and inspired a great many people to push themselves harder, showing them they can excel. I don't see him as a highly technical skier but definately an inspiration.
post #17 of 53
Hey, I know guys that in their late 50's to mid 60's are hotter now than 20 years ago, the Mayer bro's at TSV come to mind.
I guess my point is, and I think Tog was agreeing, that an instructor must demo accurately, a coach gives technically astute verbal cues and tactics (puts out his cigarette and hits you with his pole...flashback interuptus).
SCSA, I am a multi-gang member. I abidicate the role of gang leader for the woman I love.
post #18 of 53
I agree with Robin.

Harb is 53 and he's a great, I mean great skier. In fact, I've yet to see anyone (on the slopes or in media) that matches up to him technically.
post #19 of 53
I didn't mean to imply age is the only limiting factor. sorry if it came across that way. SCSA pointed out part of what I was trying to get across. In his videos and also in his camp, he uses other pros that are very good and points to them. Most of the skiing he does for the video seems to be very short clips of movements broken down to very specific exercises. almost all the long flowing clips are of other athletes. He also mentions in one of his introductions on the video that he came to skiing late in life. (does that put him in his 70's? doing the math he was already teaching in the late 60s or early 70s) and never claimed to be a world class athlete.
post #20 of 53
I'm pretty quiet here, but need to comment that Lito's videos are a God send to many struggling intermediates. They've helped me, my family, and several friends make the transition from newbies to reasonably capable upper intermediates (whatever that means). Do we try to ski exactly like Lito? Not really, but I wouldn't be embarrassed if I did. The important thing is that Lito breaks down concepts like early weight transfer and dynamic anticipation (his terms) and makes them understandable to the masses. So what if he's not the most technical skier on the planet? He's certainly having a positive influence on many, many folks. I think dchan hit the nail on the head - "Most of the skiing he does for the video seems to be very short clips of movements broken down to very specific exercises. almost all the long flowing clips are of other athletes."

Finally, perhaps the question should be asked - why do we rely on Lito's videos rather than live instructors? Think its because we know what we get when ordering his videos; and so far our limited experience with instructors has been luke warm. rick p
post #21 of 53

I agree with you. I think he's a hero.

And, I thought Litos bump skiing was really great for a guy his age, or any age. I mean, those were big bumps he was skiing and he was making them look really easy.
post #22 of 53
Georges Jobert wrote several instruction books. One was called Teach Yourself to Ski. The theme in all of them was that you could become a "virtuoso" skier if you continually practiced the moves.
The videos give you images that can be hard to get in the lesson format sometimes. The bottom line is MILES of practice. Killy had over 2 million by the time he won his medals.
post #23 of 53

I'm with ya - practice is everything. I think that's one thing that's holding a lot of skiers back - they simply don't practice.

One thing Harald is doing is that he's preaching practice - namely balance. He figures that if skiers learn balance, the rest is easy.

Works for me...
post #24 of 53
I gather you know Harald pretty well. A lot of people here in Dairy Air hold him in very high regard. I'm not into hero worship but I do like his emphasis on "tipping the inside ski", it causes weight transfer. None of this is new, if you read Centerline carefully weight transfer is mentioned in the basic wedge turn. I've been reading ski books for at least 30 years now and it's interesting that the same things keep coming up. Skis are still essentially the same and the "motor" hasn't changed in thousands of years. As the skis become more extemely shaped the movements to run them become less so.
post #25 of 53

Nice coaching flashback. Scary how accurate it is...heh heh(in some cases)
post #26 of 53

Yes, I do. I just rode bikes in the mountains with him - for a guy his age (53), he can ride.

I agree. I've seen enough clues and evidence to see that his system isn't an invention - as I once thought it was.

But even if it's not, what he preaches, in the format that he's put together, is great -and it works. I do think he's breaking new ground and I feel that the rest of the industry should learn from what he's done. As a student of skiing, I've yet to see anything that's even close to what he offers.
post #27 of 53
I have been to a lot of PSIA clinics, camps, etc. and many of them have been good. I went to the Nat'l Academy and had Harald Harb for a week. He was teaching a modified PSIA system at that time with a lot of emphasis on alignment. He is the best coach I have had to this day. I think Harald just saw some things in the PSIA System that were, in his opinion, not necessary and has attempted to streamline the learning process. Say what you will about the PMTS system, but Harald is an excellent teacher and coach.
post #28 of 53

I'm with ya, obviously.

Like I've said, I've yet to see anything that even compares to what he offers - and I've looked hard.

I wonder where Bob Barnes is? Usually he chimes in about now.
post #29 of 53
I was also somewhat dissappointed with Lito's skiing. On the other hand, overall the video is good. The best parts are the other skiers, Harold Harb and the ex-racer woman he skies with in one sequence. She rolls her ankles into the turns well but doesn't have the noticeable "phantom foot". Pierre Eh! would probably appreciate her wider stance. I might have to dust off that video this weekend.
post #30 of 53
I have skied and talked skiing with Harald. I have also talked PSIA politics and technique with Harald when he was on the Demo team and when some rather turmultuous debate was occuring at the ED level.
Harald is an excellent technician, instructor, coach and skier.
I have known and still honor many master teachers, who with unassuming, egoless devotion logged hundreds of request hours a season. They fall into the "guru" category. There are literally hundreds of them in PSIA. Most significant ski schools have at least one. Because they have synthesized their collective lifetime knowledge of skiing and can connect with their followers effectively they are leaders in their field. They are the extended thinkers of ski instruction. They know who they are and what they know. The critcal distinguishing feature of these individuals is their lack of self-promotion, ego or repetoire of slick marketing devices. They are successfull through attraction rather than promotion, and do not under any circumstances demean the methodology of their peers. Lito is one of these people, Harald is not.
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