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Tele/AT gear advice needed - Page 2

post #31 of 55
Thread Starter 

I've always been reluctant to medicate someone with a prescribed drug, that includes prescription oral analgesics. You just never know how they would react, much less in an environment even the fittest got to be on top of their game to get out of. "You got to do what you got to do" works fine with me, but always a tricky one when it involves someone else..

post #32 of 55



 

Quote:
I haven't been skiing actively but am an experienced alpine climber.
Early next year onward I'll participate in a mountain guide training program where we'll be practicing many disciplines of mountaineering, including ski mountaineering.....I have no experience in Tele or AT/Randonee skiing...."You'll be snowploughing down the mountain, wearing a heavy backpack, tied to 1-2 of your clients."
 


I guess I'm the only one who finds this thread a bit odd. The OP is an alpine climber, but not a B/C skier.  And yet he is taking a guide training course that covers both disciplines (but really; snowplowing???), which have little to do with one another.  I assume the OP understands the level of accomplishment, experience, and competence that being a guide requires, with dual responsibility for both oneself and one's clients. But perhaps not. 

 

In my experience, B/C skiing takes far more time to bring to guiding level than alpine climbing.  Indeed, the OP seemed to misunderstand the very cogent suggestion that he develop his skiing technique in-bounds before he heads into the B/C. If I were a client I certainly would not want to be roped to a B/C guide who was essentially a rookie.  Likewise, I would not want to act as a guide under such circumstances.  Possibly I misunderstand, and this is just a training course, with no pretentions towards guiding to come of it.  But it does not sound to me like the OP is ready to take this course, much less emerge from it a guide.
 


Edited by raspritz - 10/17/10 at 10:42pm
post #33 of 55
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Lee View Post


I haven't paid too much attention to this, but some guys over on TGR - jondrums and Puderluder - have developed some binding inserts that might just allow you to do that.  I did a little searching over there but didn't come up with a definitive thread    Maybe you c]an take the time to search it out, or someone here can point you.  But yeah, there are inserts that should allow you to do that...I think.  

 

 


I did a bit of research on that one. Jon's plates won't work because Silvretta holes pattern isn't identical with either Duke or Salomon. Their inserts (both Jon and PL sell them) are more promising. The holes though may be too close or even overlap. If that's not the problem, it is only the matter of finding the right shop to do it. I am not a big DIY guy and apparently it is a tad bit more technical than most shop could or would handle. The original binder screws won't work with the insert, for example. And they may need some additional tools than standard installation. Also to 'make room' for both set of holes, the position may be switched a little bit. Will that affect one's skiing?

 

For now, I may just go ahead and install a binding the standard way until I can find the right people to do it. And when I do, would the removal of binding damage my ski?

post #34 of 55
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by raspritz View Post


I guess I'm the only one who finds this thread a bit odd. The OP is an alpine climber, but not a B/C skier.  And yet he is taking a guide training course that covers both disciplines (but really; snowplowing???), which have little to do with one another.  I assume the OP understands the level of accomplishment, experience, and competence that being a guide requires, with dual responsibility for both oneself and one's clients. But perhaps not. 

 

In my experience, B/C skiing takes far more time to bring to guiding level than alpine climbing.  Indeed, the OP seemed to misunderstand the very cogent suggestion that he develop his skiing technique in-bounds before he heads into the B/C. If I were a client I certainly would not want to be roped to a B/C guide who was essentially a rookie.  Likewise, I would not want to act as a guide under such circumstances.  Possibly I misunderstand, and this is just a training course, with no pretentions towards guiding to come of it.  But it does not sound to me like the OP is ready to take this course, much less emerge from it a guide.
 


Hello raspritz. I don't think I have anything to prove but I feel compelled to point out a few things.

The topic here is gear advice needed. The last I checked I haven't been asking if anyone think I am ready to be a guide.

I did not say I want to be a ski guide, much less a backcountry ski guide. I don't know what give you that impression, perhaps you ought to go through every posts here before reply as you did. You'd have realized that I've clearly stated what I would use it for and that's not ski guiding. I suggest you look up 'ski mountaineering' and see if they have anything to do with "one another". Better still go on a trip to find out.

If you really need to know, I am a certified alpine guide working to obtain full mountain guide status. Ski mountaineering is one of the discipline and I'm admittedly a novice, hence asking for gear advice to get me started. As for what the course entails, it does not concern you with all respect.

All said, I understand where you come from. I would be skeptical too if a skier but novice climber wants to be a guide, an ALPINE guide. But then who am I to say he can't? Well we can all let a simple misunderstanding go can't we

What's been covered here in this thread helped is of great benefit to my understanding and I've enjoyed talking to the gurus here. I intend to keep it going till I've exhausted every questions I've had as true to the topic "Tele/AT gear advice". Peace!

post #35 of 55

Deleted. Have a good day.

 


 

post #36 of 55

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jon720 View Post

I did a bit of research on that one. Jon's plates won't work because Silvretta holes pattern isn't identical with either Duke or Salomon. Their inserts (both Jon and PL sell them) are more promising. The holes though may be too close or even overlap. If that's not the problem, it is only the matter of finding the right shop to do it. I am not a big DIY guy and apparently it is a tad bit more technical than most shop could or would handle. The original binder screws won't work with the insert, for example. And they may need some additional tools than standard installation. Also to 'make room' for both set of holes, the position may be switched a little bit. Will that affect one's skiing?

 

For now, I may just go ahead and install a binding the standard way until I can find the right people to do it. And when I do, would the removal of binding damage my ski?


Holes in the skis for different bindings should be at least 1 centimeter apart.  Hole overlap can be an issue, but it may (or may not) be resolved with helicoils or inserts that go into the ski.  

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67322

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171369

 

A good shop should be able to help you and tell you if what you want to do is feasible, but they probably have to look at all the bindings and skis and boots.  Now that you're gonna be a skier, welcome to the eternal search for a good shop.  

 

Moving the position of the bindings less than 1 centimeter probably won't affect the skiing, but more than that may.  

 

Removing a binding should not damage a ski if it's done right.  The rule of thumb is that skis can be drilled up to three times for different bindings.

 

If you plan on changing between bindings more than once, you should get some sort of inserts.  

post #37 of 55
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Lee View Post

 


Holes in the skis for different bindings should be at least 1 centimeter apart.  Hole overlap can be an issue, but it may (or may not) be resolved with helicoils or inserts that go into the ski.  

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67322

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171369

 

A good shop should be able to help you and tell you if what you want to do is feasible, but they probably have to look at all the bindings and skis and boots.  Now that you're gonna be a skier, welcome to the eternal search for a good shop.  

 

Moving the position of the bindings less than 1 centimeter probably won't affect the skiing, but more than that may.  

 

Removing a binding should not damage a ski if it's done right.  The rule of thumb is that skis can be drilled up to three times for different bindings.

 

If you plan on changing between bindings more than once, you should get some sort of inserts.  


Eternal search is indeed the right word! I've contacted a few ski shop and they all won't do it!

 

I think the inserts could really work. I will probably just go ahead and install Dynafit till I can find the right shop to do the inserts, remove it and move the Silvretta a little if it has any overlap. I am not sure about this but I assume since Silvretta won't be used for 'real' skiing, being a little off position wouldn't be too bad?

 

Talking about binding mount position, how does one determine where to mount? And do the type of skiing, snow pack types, ski brand, skier's skill level etc come into play?

post #38 of 55

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by jon720 View Post

 

...but I assume since Silvretta won't be used for 'real' skiing, being a little off position wouldn't be too bad?

 

Um, probably.  

Quote:

Originally Posted by jon720 View Post

Talking about binding mount position, how does one determine where to mount? And do the type of skiing, snow pack types, ski brand, skier's skill level etc come into play?


Mounting for the boot center mark over the mark on the ski provided by the manufacturer is the way to go about 98% of the time.  In other words, a standard mount.  Certainly that is the case for the K2 skis mentioned.  To start thinking about moving the mount position is to start the descent into serious geekery, which is best delayed for as long as possible...IME, IMO, IANAL etc.  

 

post #39 of 55

Jon, just FYI- raspritz is a VERY experienced ski mountaineer and alpinist. I think he understands very well what ski mountaineering entails, having done it around the world.

post #40 of 55
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dp View Post

Jon, just FYI- raspritz is a VERY experienced ski mountaineer and alpinist. I think he understands very well what ski mountaineering entails, having done it around the world.


Hey dp. I apologize if it came across wrongly. I wasn't making it personal. My comment was made against his post, not his experience or his person.

 

I thought his comment was not appropriate to the topic of discussion and I made my point, that's that. Experience or credential does not come into play in this instance.

Neither of us see further comment on this issue would benefit any party.

 

I am a ski rookie and I am here to learn from the gurus. I have no issue with raspritz whatsoever

Hope that help clarify.

 

post #41 of 55

to the OP

My AT setup is Mt Baker Super Lights (identical to the Wayback), Scarpa Sirit 4, and Dynafit Bindings (not sure what model bindings)

 

I read that you are considering the Wayback-this is a pretty soft ski-I think if you are loaded down with a lot of gear, you would want a bit more of a substantial ski underfoot.

 

It also sounds like while you are a very experienced mountaineer, but you might not be that experienced of a skier-the Wayback (MBSL) is a good ski, but really requires subtle and skilled input from the skier-it is deflected easily-hit a chunk of ice and you will be thrown around-

 

Also easy to easy to overpower if -I am only 5'6" 155 lbs and it took me several tours to get used to it-awesome ski on the up however, and great in corn/pow-but you need to have a light touch because these things come around FAST

 

Good Luck!

 

 

post #42 of 55

My A/T set-up consists of:

 

180 AK King Salmons (94 mm waist with a 24m turning radius, and they are fairly stiff)

Dalbello Virus Tour boots

Marker Duke bindings

Black Diamond Ascension skins

 

I would say that depending on where you're going to be guiding, get a ski that is at least 95mm in the waist on up to something that is 105mm. I'll echo the shorter turning radius. I ideally want a 20-21m radius for my next A/T ski (and at least 105mm in the waist AND with tip rocker).

 

On the bindings, that's really personal. I know a lot of people who use Dynafit and they've had problems with premature ejecting. While the Duke is beefy (i.e. heavy) and a pain-in-the-ass to switch from walking mode to skiing mode, especially on steep terrain, they are pretty bomber. I chose to sacrifice the extra weight and clumsiness for a more secure and solid performance on the way down.

 

As for the boots, definitely got to a good shop that has a lot of choices and get fit properly. The boots will be the most important part of the equation.

 

Skins: BD Ascension (though I have used G3 and BCA skins with no problems).

 

And as has been recommended, take your A/T gear to a resort and practice skinning, etc. in a controlled environment. 

 

Oh yeah, be sure to purchase a beacon, probes, and shovel, as well. 

post #43 of 55

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by dookey67 View Post

 

I know a lot of people who use Dynafit and they've had problems with premature ejecting. 


Whenever I hear that I suspect operator error.  Supporting evidence:

 

The times I came out of mine prematurely were because I didn't clear snow out from the toepiece.  Dynafits do require the user to be mindful, but once you get them adjusted correctly and into them correctly, they seem to hold tight.   

post #44 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Lee View Post

 

The times I came out of mine prematurely were because I didn't clear snow out from the toepiece.  Dynafits do require the user to be mindful, but once you get them adjusted correctly and into them correctly, they seem to hold tight.   



Neat trick on that note - I keep a Voile strap around my thigh, just above my knee.  When the toepiece gets iced up I use the tongue part of the buckle on the Voile strap to dig it out.  Quick, handy, effective, no problems with pre-release.

post #45 of 55
Thread Starter 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cal to colorado View Post
 

 

to the OP

My AT setup is Mt Baker Super Lights (identical to the Wayback), Scarpa Sirit 4, and Dynafit Bindings (not sure what model bindings)

 

I read that you are considering the Wayback-this is a pretty soft ski-I think if you are loaded down with a lot of gear, you would want a bit more of a substantial ski underfoot.

 

It also sounds like while you are a very experienced mountaineer, but you might not be that experienced of a skier-the Wayback (MBSL) is a good ski, but really requires subtle and skilled input from the skier-it is deflected easily-hit a chunk of ice and you will be thrown around-

 

Also easy to easy to overpower if -I am only 5'6" 155 lbs and it took me several tours to get used to it-awesome ski on the up however, and great in corn/pow-but you need to have a light touch because these things come around FAST

 

Good Luck!

 

 

 

Hey cal. I've bought the Wayback (2009/2010 ver, without rocker). So yeah, just got to get used to it I guess.

Hopefully the different ski characteristic doesn't make learning more difficult. A newbie like me probably can't tell the difference skiing at my current level.

 

I thought it would be wise to invest more in a good bootfitter and a pair of good boots to get me started.

But I am also a more 'graceful' climber than an aggresive one, chances are I'll ski the same way. Well I guess we will find out!

 

Thanks for the tips!

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by dookey67 View Post
 

 

My A/T set-up consists of:

 

180 AK King Salmons (94 mm waist with a 24m turning radius, and they are fairly stiff)

Dalbello Virus Tour boots

Marker Duke bindings

Black Diamond Ascension skins

 

I would say that depending on where you're going to be guiding, get a ski that is at least 95mm in the waist on up to something that is 105mm. I'll echo the shorter turning radius. I ideally want a 20-21m radius for my next A/T ski (and at least 105mm in the waist AND with tip rocker).

 

On the bindings, that's really personal. I know a lot of people who use Dynafit and they've had problems with premature ejecting. While the Duke is beefy (i.e. heavy) and a pain-in-the-ass to switch from walking mode to skiing mode, especially on steep terrain, they are pretty bomber. I chose to sacrifice the extra weight and clumsiness for a more secure and solid performance on the way down.

 

As for the boots, definitely got to a good shop that has a lot of choices and get fit properly. The boots will be the most important part of the equation.

 

Skins: BD Ascension (though I have used G3 and BCA skins with no problems).

 

And as has been recommended, take your A/T gear to a resort and practice skinning, etc. in a controlled environment. 

 

Oh yeah, be sure to purchase a beacon, probes, and shovel, as well. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Lee View Post

 

Whenever I hear that I suspect operator error.  Supporting evidence:

 

 

The times I came out of mine prematurely were because I didn't clear snow out from the toepiece.  Dynafits do require the user to be mindful, but once you get them adjusted correctly and into them correctly, they seem to hold tight.   

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mountaingirl1961 View Post


Neat trick on that note - I keep a Voile strap around my thigh, just above my knee.  When the toepiece gets iced up I use the tongue part of the buckle on the Voile strap to dig it out.  Quick, handy, effective, no problems with pre-release.


I remember seeing these videos from Lou (wildsnow.com) and he mentioned about the ice/snow issue that caused a released.

One way is to press down the middle of the toe piece with your hand several times, it will clear the snow/ice off. It is in the part 2 video.

 

 

post #46 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by jon720 View Post

 

Hey cal. I've bought the Wayback (2009/2010 ver, without rocker). So yeah, just got to get used to it I guess.

Hopefully the different ski characteristic doesn't make learning more difficult. A newbie like me probably can't tell the difference skiing at my current level.

 

I thought it would be wise to invest more in a good bootfitter and a pair of good boots to get me started.

But I am also a more 'graceful' climber than an aggresive one, chances are I'll ski the same way. Well I guess we will find out!

 

Thanks for the tips!

 

 

 

 


 

 

 



The 2009/2020 Wayback/MBSLT is so light and has a huge tip-who would need a rocker-?? This thing planes on its own

 

Sounds like you are going (or should go) for light weight-cause you are guiding/humping gear

 

Dynafit bindings are the way to go and will serve you well-light,light,light

 

I have skied inbounds through mogul fields on mine-dropped some pretty tight steeps in/out of bounds and have never had any probs-amazing little binding

 

I'm 48 yo, and routinely out climb my partners 20 years younger than me on heavier gear-really makes a diff

 

have fun!!

 

post #47 of 55
Thread Starter 

Yeah that's what I was banking at.

I still like the light and fast approach. No harm give it a go, if it doesn't work I can always get another ski.
Learning the right technique and clock up snow time is just more important than gears now.

post #48 of 55
Thread Starter 

Hello.

2 newbie questions from me.

Sounds obvious but anyway: can you put a Dynafit ST binding with 92mm brake on a ski with narrower (<92mm) underfoot?

What's the different between binder brake and ski crampon? Do you need either, both or none of them?

Cheers again!

post #49 of 55



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jon720 View Post

Hello.

2 newbie questions from me.

Sounds obvious but anyway: can you put a Dynafit ST binding with 92mm brake on a ski with narrower (<92mm) underfoot?

What's the different between binder brake and ski crampon? Do you need either, both or none of them?

Cheers again!



 

 

If the brakes are narrower than you ski waist, they can be bent out to accommodate a slightly wider ski.  If the brakes are wider than your ski waist, than there may be an issue with the brakes sticking out too far while they are up and you are skiing. It is possible the brakes may hit each other and even hook together while you are skiing.  It depends on how much wider they are than the ski, and also if they are the type that retract in over the ski when they are up. Bending them in does not really work because it will not change the widest point of the brakes. How wide are the brakes you are talking about?

 

Ski brakes stop your ski from sliding if it releases from your boot.  Ski crampons are used for climbing (usually with skins) and are basically a claw that goes down into the snow next to your boot that allows you to climb very steep hard snow on which your skins will not hold traction. You do not need these unless you are going straight up extremely steep climbs.  Not something a "newbie" needs.

post #50 of 55
Just to add, I done it both ways and am fIrmly in the camp of brakes vs no brakes. They dont add all that much weight and prevent a bad situation with a runaway ski during a transition. That and I hate having to clip up my really short beener leashes. Yes, I am that inflexible and lazy!
post #51 of 55

There is also the safety factor. If you get caught in a slide, fall in a tree well, crash into a creek, or other awkward position, you do not want to be tied to your skis.

post #52 of 55
Thread Starter 

Thanks for the reply guys.

It is a 88mm underfoot ski, looking at Dynafit ST binder with 92mm stopper. What do you think? Would it work?

I've seen many a surfers got hit, hard by their own board on a failed ride although I can't imagine a pair of ski could do worse! Or I may be wrong...

post #53 of 55

Not only will it work, an 88mm waist should be perfect with a 92mm brake. 2mm clearance on each side is just right. As was said above, you will need ski crampons (harscheisen) only if you are ascending steep terrain in hard snow conditions where your skins will not give good purchase.

post #54 of 55
Thread Starter 

Good news indeed. Thanks dp.

post #55 of 55

Not to flog the deceased Equus caballus more but...

 

Just yesterday I was talking to a locker mate of mine and he has a Dynafit setup without brakes OR leashes. He biffed it at the top of a descent earlier this year and the ski ran to the bottom. Thankfully, the bottom was a big run out so he was able to find it again but depending how far down he fell, that was a good 2K of vert. A lot of work for nothing. Heh!

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