or Connect
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Most Snow in the World?

post #1 of 80
Thread Starter 

While messing around on the internet today I came upon this list of the 20 snowiest ski areas in the world (snowfall expressed in inches):

 

  • Mr. Baker Ski Area, Washington: 641"
  • Niseko resort, Japan 595"
  • Alta Ski Area, Utah: 525"
  • Alyeska Resort, Alaska: 513"
  • Kirkwood Mountain Resort, California: 473"
  • Stevens Pass, Washington: 471"
  • Sugar Bowl, California: 464"
  • Grand Targhee Resort, Wyoming: 463"
  • Snowbird Ski Resort, Utah: 461"
  • Mt. Hood Meadows Ski Resort, Oregon: 430"
  • Whistler Blackcomb Ski Resort, BC: 407"
  • Powder Mountain, Utah: 400"
  • Solitude, Utah: 399"
  • Whitewater Resort, BC: 397"
  • Boreal Mountain Resort, California: 395"
  • Crystal Mountain, Washington: 390"
  • Mt. Washington, BC: 383"
  • Brighton Resort, Utah: 381"
  • Wolf Creek, Colorado: 379"
  • Fernie Alpine Resort, BC: 369"

It struck me that this list includes only one place NOT in North America.  Is this for real? How do the Europeans have ski areas on glaciers, but not have large snowfall totals?  Somebody educate me.

 


Edited by Posaune - 9/26/10 at 8:13am
post #2 of 80

I'll take Alta's 525 over Baker's 641 any day of the week and twice on Sundays....not that Baker is bad but the quality of snow in the Wasatch is SSOOO much better than the PNW.

post #3 of 80

Most of those places are in the first range of mountains from the Pacific Ocean.  Great source of moisture but also contributes to moderate temperatures (few glaciers) during warmer seasons.

post #4 of 80

I believe these are average snowfall amounts.  Some of these places have received much more as far as record snowfalls go.

 

FWIW,

JF

post #5 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by UGASkiDawg View Post

I'll take Alta's 525 over Baker's 641 any day of the week and twice on Sundays....not that Baker is bad but the quality of snow in the Wasatch is SSOOO much better than the PNW.



Is it even comparable?!

post #6 of 80
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kneale Brownson View Post

Most of those places are in the first range of mountains from the Pacific Ocean.  Great source of moisture but also contributes to moderate temperatures (few glaciers) during warmer seasons.


Close.  9 of these places are coastal.  Two have glaciers within the ski area (Hood and Whistler).  

 

My question, poorly stated above, is: Why aren't European ski resorts which contain glaciers on this list?  

 

It takes a bunch of snow to make a glacier.  Some places in Europe must get a bunch of snow.  Many of the ski areas on this list are at high altitude with a cold average climate, yet they don't have glaciers and the Europeans do.  Why isn't the presence of a glacier an indicator of high average snowfall, or conversely, why isn't high average snowfall a predictor of glacier formation?  Where's Dr. Science when you need him?

post #7 of 80
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by UGASkiDawg View Post

I'll take Alta's 525 over Baker's 641 any day of the week and twice on Sundays....not that Baker is bad but the quality of snow in the Wasatch is SSOOO much better than the PNW.


I took out my parenthetical comment.  I don't want to turn this into a pissing match.

post #8 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Posaune View Post




I took out my parenthetical comment.  I don't want to turn this into a pissing match.


What good is an internet forum if it doesn't turn into a pissing contest??

post #9 of 80

Is it possible the glaciers formed long ago when Europe had more snow fall and colder temps and that the glaciers there are now receding, but it takes a long time.

post #10 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Posaune View Post

While messing around on the internet today I came upon this list of the 20 snowiest ski areas in the world (snowfall expressed in inches):

 

  • Mr. Baker Ski Area, Washington: 641"
  • Niseko resort, Japan 595"
  • Alta Ski Area, Utah: 525"
  • Alyeska Resort, Alaska: 513"
  • Kirkwood Mountain Resort, California: 473"
  • Stevens Pass, Washington: 471"
  • Sugar Bowl, California: 464"
  • Grand Targhee Resort, Wyoming: 463"
  • Snowbird Ski Resort, Utah: 461"
  • Mt. Hood Meadows Ski Resort, Oregon: 430"
  • Whistler Blackcomb Ski Resort, BC: 407"
  • Powder Mountain, Utah: 400"
  • Solitude, Utah: 399"
  • Whitewater Resort, BC: 397"
  • Boreal Mountain Resort, California: 395"
  • Crystal Mountain, Washington: 390"
  • Mt. Washington, BC: 383"
  • Brighton Resort, Utah: 381"
  • Wolf Creek, Colorado: 379"
  • Fernie Alpine Resort, BC: 369"

It struck me that this list includes only one place NOT in North America.  Is this for real? How do the Europeans have ski areas on glaciers, but not have large snowfall totals?  Somebody educate me.

 



Was this list from the last season? Because Baker's all time record is well over 1000 inches I believe. Also Mt Hood Meadow is on the list but Timberline isn't. I believe thety AVERAGE 600 inches a year. and they are right next to each other. Just seems like a weird list.

post #11 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecimmortal View Post





Was this list from the last season? Because Baker's all time record is well over 1000 inches I believe. Also Mt Hood Meadow is on the list but Timberline isn't. I believe thety AVERAGE 600 inches a year. and they are right next to each other. Just seems like a weird list.

 

 

http://www.mtbaker.us/snow-report/snowfall-statistics

634 last winter, and their record snowfall was something around 1140 inches of snow. Absolutely ridiculous!

post #12 of 80
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecimmortal View Post





Was this list from the last season? Because Baker's all time record is well over 1000 inches I believe. Also Mt Hood Meadow is on the list but Timberline isn't. I believe thety AVERAGE 600 inches a year. and they are right next to each other. Just seems like a weird list.

This is supposed to be an all time list of average snowfall.  I cannot vouch for its accuracy.  I wasn't interested in the small details, but the fact that there was nothing in Euorpe or Asia on this list which purports to be the 20 snowiest ski areas in the world.
 

post #13 of 80

Stay away from Whitewater their snow is awful good  That extra distance inland and a little more latitude makes up for a lot of Northwestishness.

 

Been a long time since Geology class but the foggy gray cells remember something about 40' of snow laying on the ground was the magic number.  They talked abut that being the required amount, or more, to create a snow field and on to a glacier from their.  Where are all of the good glaciologists when you really need them?

post #14 of 80

Mr. Crocker to the white courtesy phone please...

post #15 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by UGASkiDawg View Post

I'll take Alta's 525 over Baker's 641 any day of the week and twice on Sundays....not that Baker is bad but the quality of snow in the Wasatch is SSOOO much better than the PNW.



I'll take my 7 month(year round if I choose) ski season, no tourists, and deal with the snow I have.

post #16 of 80

My guess is whoever compile the list may simply list whatever's EASILY available information.

 

I don't know if the European resorts have more or less average snow fall. But it's suspicious when ONE resort in Japan make the list at #2 but not any other nearby resorts. It's quite possible there're other resorts in the same area that has similar snowfall total, but they're not known to Americans.

 

So it's quite possible there're MANY other resorts that has a lot of snow the author didn't even look at.

post #17 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecimmortal View Post





Was this list from the last season? Because Baker's all time record is well over 1000 inches I believe. Also Mt Hood Meadow is on the list but Timberline isn't. I believe thety AVERAGE 600 inches a year. and they are right next to each other. Just seems like a weird list.

From the "Timbie-flats" website:

 

Average snowfall:
400-500″ per year

 

Which is a ridiculously wide range to claim as an "average", I'm guessing it's closer to four hundred. Meadows may get more because it is on the leeward side of the mountain for most of the storms, and hence receives snow that blows off of the southwest side of the mountain (Timberline) as well as what falls from the sky.

 

post #18 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by UGASkiDawg View Post

I'll take Alta's 525 over Baker's 641 any day of the week and twice on Sundays....not that Baker is bad but the quality of snow in the Wasatch is SSOOO much better than the PNW.



So, is this standardized based in water quantity, or is this snow volume in the contidion it fell as?  In other words, if Baker's 641 was wet and heavy and Alta's was light, dry and fluffy how many inches would Baker's 641 be in champagne form?  Not that it matters, but just wondering..

post #19 of 80


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Posaune View Post
It takes a bunch of snow to make a glacier.  Some places in Europe must get a bunch of snow.  Many of the ski areas on this list are at high altitude with a cold average climate, yet they don't have glaciers and the Europeans do.  Why isn't the presence of a glacier an indicator of high average snowfall, or conversely, why isn't high average snowfall a predictor of glacier formation?


Glaciers depend on low Average Temperature Ranges far more than snowfall amounts.  We get a lot of moisture off the ocean here but it's often just barely cold enough for snow to reach the ground even in the passes (30 - 34 degrees air temp).   When spring hits we see a lot of "warm" rain (50 degrees) which quickly melts the snow and delivers yearly flooding.

 

I'd look into the average temps of glaciated areas and check how much rainfall they get at higher temps.   Antarctica is considered a desert as they rarely ever get actual precipitation (mostly blowing surface ice) but they certainly do have glaciers.

 

.ma

 

 

 

 

post #20 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by volantaddict View Post



From the "Timbie-flats" website:

 

Average snowfall:
400-500″ per year

 

Which is a ridiculously wide range to claim as an "average", I'm guessing it's closer to four hundred. Meadows may get more because it is on the leeward side of the mountain for most of the storms, and hence receives snow that blows off of the southwest side of the mountain (Timberline) as well as what falls from the sky.

 



I guess it would also depend in where you measure it too. I'm sure there is a huge difference between the bottom lift, the lodge, and the top of Palmer.

 

post #21 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScubaSkiier View Post



 

 

http://www.mtbaker.us/snow-report/snowfall-statistics

634 last winter, and their record snowfall was something around 1140 inches of snow. Absolutely ridiculous!



That's the world record.
 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post





So, is this standardized based in water quantity, or is this snow volume in the contidion it fell as?  In other words, if Baker's 641 was wet and heavy and Alta's was light, dry and fluffy how many inches would Baker's 641 be in champagne form?  Not that it matters, but just wondering..


Mt. Baker would have an insane amount of snow:

 

- 81.86 inches (liquid) v. ~50 inches annually for Snowbird

- So about 1620" for Baker and 1000" for snowbird if it was all champagne powder

 

Japan has the most consistent powder due to ocean effect snow.

post #22 of 80

The definition of a "glacier" has more to do with how much snow is retained year over year rather than how much snow a specific location gets. For example, Mt Baker might have a 200" base by the end of the winter (at least- when I skied there in April '94 I think it was closer to 300"!) but if it melts off (on average) in the summer, it isn't a glacier candidate. It could be a "snowfield", which holds a base through the summer in some years. A glacier must INCREASE in size a specific percentage of years, even if it's only 1" like in Antarctica. Places in Europe may not get the same deep stuff- but the summers are not nearly as warm, and one other factor: the Alps typically are not as rocky (more grassy), since rocks heat up in the sun much faster, snowmelt occurs at a much slower rate.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Posaune View Post




Close.  9 of these places are coastal.  Two have glaciers within the ski area (Hood and Whistler).  

 

My question, poorly stated above, is: Why aren't European ski resorts which contain glaciers on this list?  

 

It takes a bunch of snow to make a glacier.  Some places in Europe must get a bunch of snow.  Many of the ski areas on this list are at high altitude with a cold average climate, yet they don't have glaciers and the Europeans do.  Why isn't the presence of a glacier an indicator of high average snowfall, or conversely, why isn't high average snowfall a predictor of glacier formation?  Where's Dr. Science when you need him?

post #23 of 80

Who cares? we stop skiing 'cause the resort shuts down in the mid May with plenty of snow on the hills and not because the lack of it :)
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ecimmortal View Post





I guess it would also depend in where you measure it too. I'm sure there is a huge difference between the bottom lift, the lodge, and the top of Palmer.

 

post #24 of 80
Quote:View Post

  

 

It takes a bunch of snow to make a glacier.  Some places in Europe must get a bunch of snow.  Many of the ski areas on this list are at high altitude with a cold average climate, yet they don't have glaciers and the Europeans do.  Why isn't the presence of a glacier an indicator of high average snowfall, or conversely, why isn't high average snowfall a predictor of glacier formation?  Where's Dr. Science when you need him?



I'll take a shot at it, nowhere close to dr science though. The glaciers are obviously very very old, obviously they were formed when europe was in a period of high snowfall and cold temperatures, now they are in a period of less snowfall and higher temps (see tgr's generations). From what ive seen in geology classes we are coming out of a cold period right now so warmer temps and less snow is to be expected for a long long time. However I cannot explain why we are recieving good snowfall while they arent. Maybe something to do with the atlantic? or the jet stream patterns? Anyone out there a meteorologist, if so please chime in

post #25 of 80

Its also funny that the world record snow fall year ever recorded doesnt have a ski hill. That was in B.C. north of Stewart BC at Grand Duke mine area by the Salmon Glacier. 2000 inches with normal every year averages over 1200inches!! Guniss records. 100ft anually with a 160+ft one year!! Wow. I worked up there it was amazzing!!

post #26 of 80
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by whipper View Post

Its also funny that the world record snow fall year ever recorded doesnt have a ski hill. That was in B.C. north of Stewart BC at Grand Duke mine area by the Salmon Glacier. 2000 inches with normal every year averages over 1200inches!! Guniss records. 100ft anually with a 160+ft one year!! Wow. I worked up there it was amazzing!!

 

Be careful with the numbers you throw around.

 

This is according to the a web site boosting the Stewart B.C. area:


"The Granduc copper mine area received recognition in the Guinness Book of World Records for the world's record snowfall in 1973 for a recorded snowfall that year of 1199 inches." 

 

However, if you Google "world record snowfall" you get site after site that lists Mt. Baker with 1140 inches, and none that list Granduc.

 

I don't have an explanation for why the larger number is not being touted as the official world record.  Someone may be able to shed light on this vexing conundrum.

post #27 of 80

Mt. Baker didn't get Guiness  to recognize their record, as the Baker record is for total snowfall in a winter, and the Guiness record is for calendar year. I have no idea about the Dranguc claim, but the other record touted as the calendar year record was set on Rainier at Paradise.

post #28 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by VladL View Post

Who cares? we stop skiing 'cause the resort shuts down in the mid May with plenty of snow on the hills and not because the lack of it
 


Speak for yourself lazybones, for many, when the bullwheels stop turning, it's time to start skinning.
 

post #29 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by volantaddict View Post




Speak for yourself lazybones, for many, when the bullwheels stop turning, it's time to start skinning.
 


The funny part is he ski's a mountain that has lift served skiing 11 months out of the year.
 

post #30 of 80

True... There are two reasons to get ski-lazy after mid-May:

 

1. No child care on the mountain after the resort closes, the youngest one is just too young to tag along

2. There is plenty of stuff to do in the summer around here. you know it first hand, eci

 

And it is nice to have something to look forward to. Skiing single-pitch Palmer is fun, but i'd rather wait for the winter and get the best

Quote:
Originally Posted by ecimmortal View Post




The funny part is he ski's a mountain that has lift served skiing 11 months out of the year.
 

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Skiing Discussion