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Who Dat?

post #1 of 30
Thread Starter 

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ November 27, 2001 05:36 PM: Message edited 1 time, by Dr.GO ]</font>
post #2 of 30
Contestant1: Alex I'll take snow for 500.
Alex: A video daily double! How much do you wager?
Contestant1: 2000 dollars.
Alex: Okay. Who is this?
(video plays)
Contestant1: (thinking to self) man in red suit... man in red suit...
Contestant1: Who is Santa Claus?
Alex: Right you are! Bob, tell him what he's won.
Bob (deep announcer voice): Thaaaattt's right you have won the all expense paid trip to...

Anyway, nice video loop.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ November 27, 2001 06:00 PM: Message edited 1 time, by zeek ]</font>
post #3 of 30
Dr Go- You amaze me with your prowess. I can barely log on to this thing.

I don't know who it is but I know what one of my mentors would say.....50 pound sack of potatoes. The guy is just slinging himself across his skis and not tipping or extending. The whole deal could be a lot more subtle with fewer gross movements.Not much progression to the tipping. The guy flies over his skis and "sorta" gets them on edge via inclination and or getting his cm inside the turn. What do I know....I'm merely a lowly level I.

I will say this. I had my proudest moment the other day when Bob Barnes turned to me and said I had a "good eye" while we watched and talked about SCSA's skiing.

Just had to bow my chest out for a second!!!!

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ November 27, 2001 07:26 PM: Message edited 1 time, by Rusty Guy ]</font>
post #4 of 30
I smell a set-up!

post #5 of 30
Nice footwork, no a-frame there. Isn't he supposed to use those things in his hands?
I have to admit, I get lazy with my pole plants on easy terrain too.
Is that H.H?
post #6 of 30
I don't THINK I know who it is, but I'll say that of these two turns, I like the turn to his right (our left) better than the turn to his left. In the right turn, he moves through with his whole body, which allows him to steer it to what looks like completion. In the left turn, the skis shoot out from under him, leaving him down and back. He compensates by moving quickly into the next turn. Either way, I like the clean roll of the skis through the transition.

Of course, it's a little a little hard to tell in a clip that loops through just two turns. Nice job on the clip, Dr. G! Am I correct in thinking that the loop begins about half way through that right turn (which would make the right turn actually a composite of two different turns)?

Best regards,
Bob Barnes
post #7 of 30
Do I see a dead spot and a little in the rear?
post #8 of 30
I can't make out the terrain well, but the dude might be skiing a double fall line.
post #9 of 30
zeek: No pole touch by the right arm gives that away or is that where the clip is?
post #10 of 30
Todd, I think you are right about the set up. Might that be HH?
post #11 of 30
He don't use either pole. That's cool with me though. I skip the poles when I am tired and lazy on the last run of the day.
post #12 of 30
I'll go out on a limb and guess that it's NOT Harald Harb--doesn't look like his usual stance or arm motion. Any chance the first name starts with a "J" Dr. G?
post #13 of 30
Your not thinking the last name starts with a B are you?
post #14 of 30
It looks to me like the skier is on a sidehill, with the right turn one beat longer than the left turn. My bet is that this is a racer. Could be Picabo.
post #15 of 30

Rob Butler's site:

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ November 27, 2001 10:51 PM: Message edited 1 time, by Tudor ]</font>
post #16 of 30
Dat man in red suit ... da man have limp wrist and problum with da haaaard pooo staaark in bowtom ... so no mon can put feeet togetha ... but mon him nice gay boy turn ... good da strut the sidewalk ... da iiiiimpreeeess the wowman ... make like quick time pass the colors mon!

dayt who Dat is mon....da mon Go bro Butler mon!!!

Oz [img]smile.gif[/img]
post #17 of 30
Aw, shoot! I thought the bow was a curtsey! Fun exercise, GO. Give us mo'.
post #18 of 30
Well I'll be darned! He does open that stance sometimes!
post #19 of 30
I can name that skier in just 2 turns! Oh I guess someone already did. Now do we comment on the skiing? Not to generalize but I see this large movement to his ski by the pronouced flex at the end of the turn. It seems this is a very Canadan movement from tapes of CSIA skiers I have seen. Does anyone have any comment on that? Any Northern members on the forum that could give insight in why the pronounced flex. I think some skiers will show simlier movment but tend to flex as the ski moves under, I think this skier tends to move more to the back of the ski with only knee flex and gets him a little back, forcing him to have a quick top of the turn. I like his tipping and touch with the ski, very smooth progressive tipping and steering just a little abrupt on the pressure mangement area.

Thank you Dr Go, Nice clip,
post #20 of 30
Thread Starter 
Way to go cyber sluths!

Bob was closing in fast, I constantly see the Left turn in Butlers Demos as being a bit different. Sometimes as he approaches the camera and he is not in demo mode you can see it too. (I joke about that Canadian HOP all the time, more prevelant on his left turn than his right)

(wonder if there is an item there? Certaily a right hander in most life skills)

This clip is CUT by that they are dropping frames to make it a GIF and have it play faster. Most of you saw that.

Some good steering and edge, comfortable stance, hey he looks good!

I am sure he would like to do this or that better as any of us would. (Oh except Bob!)

(No offense, just a little joke there Bob, we all know you do not have an ego or nothing) (this is a no pucking zone, hehehehehe, love that illustration, geeeeeze)

This was fun!

Thanks for playing!
post #21 of 30
Rusty: The guy is just slinging himself across his skis and not tipping or extending.

Floyd: Do I see a dead spot and a little in the rear? :

Todo: Not to generalize but I see this large movement to his ski by the pronouced flex at the end of the turn

I wonder if you guys realize how strange it is for some of us to look at what is clearly good skiing and see such comments. Especially when to some of us, it is obviously Rob Butler in the video (who is an instructor, no less) The only comment that made sense to me was the one brought by Arby regarding a lack of pole action. The goal of this video was to show two-footed carving however, so I guess Rob ignored pole action. He could have kept his hands higher and more forward.

Anyway, I have some questions:

Rusty, why did you think that there is no tipping. The tipping I see is very subtle - as it should be. And your comment about "slinging" is hard to understand. Rob takes advantage of the rebound (created by the pronounced flex) with a little bit of cross-under action. Nothing wrong with that. May not be necessary, but it is not incorrect.

Floyd, you see a dead spot there? I thought that the transition was excellent.

Todo, I think that the pronounced flex is there because Rob chose to do it. It creates a nice platform for a little rebound and a quick transition of the CM into the new turn.

Anyway this is probably the main reason why I hesitate to take lessons. I am afraid that somebody will look at my turns and tell me to do things that I don't believe will help me. I would like to completely trust an instructor, but it seems that if my style does not match his/her "ideal", then he/she will try to change my skiing - and not necessarily for the better. For example I am completely against the new trend to keep skiers more upright in their stance and to get them forward by ramping the boot. I prefer my knees nicely bent (like in the video). :
post #22 of 30
Thread Starter 
Well said TomB!

When I first became an instructor the director took me skiing and said this on the chair,"Why do you want to be an instructor? You know that you will never be happy with your skiing after this. Constantly examining your moves and style, it is a tough life, your worst critic will be YOU!

In a sense there are alot of instructors who resemble that remark. I took it to heart and attempt to not be critical of myself nor others as a rule. However I never ever want to stop learning. So I am open to criticism and observation, which may show me what I can not see for myself. (Physician Heal Thy Self, tough to do)

I feel that here in this forum they are mostly having a bit of fun.

If I would say you are HOPPING at least here looking at a clip which is obviously snipped here and there it would be more of a Kidding that a criticism.

IF there is a blantant issue, it will re-occur. You will see it again and agian. I had said in a previous post that the style YOU ski with is how people recognize you on the hill. The style you may demonstrate with or practice with may be very different. That is to learn or convey an idea. (this clip of Butler is a good example of just that, Butler LOVES to pole plant, just watch him when he goes out to ski for himself to have fun. But in this demo he does not. The reason I feel is that the pole plant would take away form the clean lines of the DEMO)

I feel that everyone here respects Butler and the other skiers out there. Professional instructors have CLASS enough to assist you with your skiing and skills not be CRUEL or CRITICAL.

A lesson may be a good idea if nothing else but to confirm that you are on the right track. (or to move forward in technique)

I FEEL that no matter who you are or how you ski you can always LEARN something NEW or more Efficient.

Hey, when you get to be my age you begin re-learning stuff you learned, skied and forgot!

Take a lesson. It is worth it. I take a lesson every day. Just got one here. Thanks!

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ November 28, 2001 09:33 AM: Message edited 2 times, by Dr.GO ]</font>
post #23 of 30
TomB- I agree it is good skiing! I was not passing judgement as to the flexing to his ski to be right or wrong just an observation and looking for some insight on why he may or others feel it is neccessary? I agree with you about bending of the legs. The best help to me skiing in the past few years was an article by Phil & Steve Mahre in Ski Mag talking about going up and down again and not being afraid of it. I had started moving to much across and to ridged, it helped my skiing alot. I do not feel there is any RIGHT or WRONG just more or less effective movements depending on terrain, speed, snow conditions etc..

I see this forum as a way to explore peoples thoughts about skiing and pick peoples brains on there observation and ideas. My comments about the skier were ment to do that it is not how I would teach a lesson. I would love to go out with Rob Butler for a day and offer my comments to him and have him give me insight into his thoughts and technique as well as comment on mine. Share ideas!

I may not wish to have him as a skiing model but that does not mean I don't respect his ability and his knowledge.

Lets not forget this is but one clip of him doing some specific thing. I don't even know what he may be demonstrating. For all I know he may also be trying to over use some movements to better demonstrate the action he is trying to show.
post #24 of 30
I strive to ski in a manner where my knees are bendING, not bent.
post #25 of 30
>>You know that you will never be happy with your skiing after this. Constantly examining your moves and style, it is a tough life, your worst critic will be YOU!<<

Well, that might have been his experience. But though I never rest on my laurels and think "Ok, I'm top of the heap . . . no room left to improve" I'm *always* happy with my skiing, because I love to ski - and if the skiing becomes about something besides loving each turn, its not worth doing anymore!
post #26 of 30
If I can add some context here, at the time of this TV episode Rob was learning the new shorty-slalom technique from one of Team Canada's alpine coaches. He indicated the technique and technology was significant enough to warrant early unveiling despite his lack of mastery at it.

I'm sure he has it dialed in now...
post #27 of 30
The thought had occured to me, Hap. I don't think so, but there are some similarities, including the lowish hands. I wouldn't be surprised....

Kind of a fun game. When do we win the prize, Dr. G?

Best regards,
Bob Barnes

EDIT: Oops--wrote that reply before reading the rest of the posts. I see that the mystery skier's identity has been revealed. Thanks, Dr. G--got any more?

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ November 28, 2001 12:56 PM: Message edited 1 time, by Bob Barnes/Colorado ]</font>
post #28 of 30
Dr. GO: A lesson may be a good idea if nothing else but to confirm that you are on the right track. (or to move forward in technique)

You are absolutely right, I have to get over my reservations. I definitely have lots of room for improvement. However, the one item that I will require as part of a lesson is video analysis. It is rarely offered, but to me it is absolutely critical. I have seen myself in pictures only and it is a matter of time before I buy a digital camera to get some video. Of course, once I see myself ski, I will probably never be happy with myself.
post #29 of 30
You're probably right, TomB. But always remember this, if it's any consolation: the turns you see on video, even if you just made them, are in the past! You'll never make them again.

Some people dwell far too much on what they see in video, replaying over and over, trying to make it different. But the next turns you make WILL be different. Video shows how you USED to ski--even if just a moment ago!

Best regards,
Bob Barnes
post #30 of 30
Thread Starter 

You would do well with a lesson. Regardless of your skill level.


Becasue you have the right attitude toward it.

Asking questions and getting answers is what it is all about.

What does Sy Simms say " An educated Customer is our best Customer"

A few minuets with a pro who knows what is going on could not hurt and again I would suspect do well by you.

There you are Bob B, TOMB is all yours!

The two of you should get togeather!

A few years back I thought that PSIA had made it manditory for all ski schools to have cameras for use in their lessons?

Am I right on this or what? Anybody know about that?

I am sure Vail has it available TomB, you could hook up with them. Some great deals in Aspen too this year, they might have the stuff too.

What about Whistler, Canadian conversion what it is today, might be better.

Have fun ...
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