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need good carving ski for intermediate level (will ski 30x this year)

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 

i'm 5'6", 175lb and ski on 162-168cm lengths.

 

looking to replace my head im monster 77 (have 2 sheets of steel i think so are a bit stiff for my level)....to practice, I will be skiing 2-3x up at cypress mtn (vancouver bc) afterwork during wk so will encounter icier conditions, too, once temps/sun goes down, so need something of midweight to hold its own in varied conditions.

 

I got out 35x last year (after being away 20 yrs) and progressed into a good novice/slight intermediate level

(I still have major issues with uneven big mounds of snow and huge dumps)...

...hope to repeat again this year (35x supplemented with good instruction/lessons) to refine technique/confidence yet again.

 

i have three sets of skis:

head monster im77 163 (stiff though used mostly as main ski) ....

the fischer watea 84 167cm (just bought them used at suggestion of colleague to get something less stiff, tried them only 1x )

and the rossi b-94 168cm (pretty decent ski...bought used, skied on it 2-4x)..

 

so while i have some good wider skis, I'd like to replace my head im monster 77  as with their 2 steel top sheets, i believe, I find them a bit too stiff for my level on steeps, but on flatter/less steep terrain they are great.

 

i did try at season's end (whistler's demo days) the newer nordica jet fuel and afterburner series and was very impressed: not stiff, not too forgiving yet with great edging ability too.

 

so any other suggestions for something to replace the monster for groomers in a high '70s'/low '80s underfoot...


Edited by canali - 9/26/10 at 12:20pm
post #2 of 17

The skis don't know your ability level; all they know is your speed, your weight, and the size of your turns.  They need to be that stiff to turn that sharp at that speed carrying your weight.  If you have a problem skiing them, then I suggest you fix your ability level, not change skis.

 

As far as problems with big clumps of  snow and huge dumps, you should get longer skis, at least 180 cm, with a turn radius >16 m.  That type of ski will be a lot easier in those conditions.

post #3 of 17
Thread Starter 

 

i don't know if I agree with your suggestion of going longer given my correct length is (for my height and ability) exactly in the 163-168 range...most seasoned instructors and retailers have all been unamimous in that regard...

 

as per your suggetion to 'fix my ability level not change skis' sorry i also disagree: there are different stiffness degrees of course depending on one's ability weight etc...for me the head im monster simply is too stiff on steeper grades and in deeper snow conditions ..yet I don't want something too unforgiving either...seeking more of a mid flex ski....so improving my technique only goes so far as there are a multitude of skis out there reflecting the multitude of different styles/fits etc....and I am trying to improve: was out 35 last yr (with lots of lessons) and hoping to ''rinse and repeat'' this year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post

The skis don't know your ability level; all they know is your speed, your weight, and the size of your turns.  They need to be that stiff to turn that sharp at that speed carrying your weight.  If you have a problem skiing them, then I suggest you fix your ability level, not change skis.

 

As far as problems with big clumps of  snow and huge dumps, you should get longer skis, at least 180 cm, with a turn radius >16 m.  That type of ski will be a lot easier in those conditions.


Edited by canali - 9/26/10 at 12:08pm
post #4 of 17

One word I would use to describe the iM77 is "Plank", it was an excellent ski if you enjoy a stiff powerful ski, but as you have noticed, it isn't very forgiving or easy-going. There are many newer skis that have excellent edge grip without the stiff longitudinal flex.

 

You are probably going to be able to find something you will like much better. Almost every brand makes something great in this category, I'd check out some of Dynastar and Rossignol's skis. The CX80 is a pretty darn ski that was mostly over-looked, the Dynastar Contact series is also excellent, but most brands make a ski w/ a mid-70-ish waist and a low to mid teen turn radius.

 

In another thread you asked about 'One Ski Quiver'... forget it. There are some skis that do many things well, none of them are actually great at much and no change in technology will make a ski that's 105mm wide feel like a carving ski. People have adapted their skiing to allow them to ski wide skis everywhere, the skis aren't actually more versatile.

post #5 of 17
Thread Starter 


many thanks tyson....i appreciate the 'skip the one quiver ski' advice.

 

but let me ask you:  how to best 'manage your ski day'?...say, for example, you arrive at whistler and they've had a fresh 30cm dump of snow

...would you use take your wide boards and then just stay on top of the mtn all day?...what about when you want to ski further down the mtn later on where there is more groomed runs and so those wider boards aren't as suitable?...this is where I guess the 'one quiver' ski of either icelantic or vokyl's nomad or gotama has been suggested and was appealing (or i guess i could take a few sets of skis to the resort too to better accomodate such)

 

thanks for your imput once more....i'm only now after 20 yr away getting back into skiing...went 35x last yr (took lots of lessons) and will do the same this yr to up my technique and confidence levels once more, heading towards a decent 'all-round' novice - intermediate level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyson Rockwood View Post

One word I would use to describe the iM77 is "Plank", it was an excellent ski if you enjoy a stiff powerful ski, but as you have noticed, it isn't very forgiving or easy-going. There are many newer skis that have excellent edge grip without the stiff longitudinal flex.

 

You are probably going to be able to find something you will like much better. Almost every brand makes something great in this category, I'd check out some of Dynastar and Rossignol's skis. The CX80 is a pretty darn ski that was mostly over-looked, the Dynastar Contact series is also excellent, but most brands make a ski w/ a mid-70-ish waist and a low to mid teen turn radius.

 

In another thread you asked about 'One Ski Quiver'... forget it. There are some skis that do many things well, none of them are actually great at much and no change in technology will make a ski that's 105mm wide feel like a carving ski. People have adapted their skiing to allow them to ski wide skis everywhere, the skis aren't actually more versatile.


Edited by canali - 10/30/10 at 5:16pm
post #6 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by canali View Post

i'm 5'6", 175lb and ski on 162-168cm lengths.

 

looking to replace my head im monster 77 (have 2 sheets of steel i think so are a bit stiff for my level)....to practice, I will be skiing 2-3x up at cypress mtn (vancouver bc) afterwork during wk so will encounter icier conditions, too, once temps/sun goes down, so need something of midweight to hold its own in varied conditions.

 

I got out 35x last year and so went up to a good beginner/intermediate level (still have major issues with uneven big mounds of snow and huge dumps)...

 

i have three sets of skis:

head monster im77 163 (stiff though) .... bought (used) at the end of the season both the fischer watea 84 167cm (about 3-4 yrs old, softer flex) and the rossi b-94 168cm (about 6-8 yrs old I think)..

 

so while i have some good wider skis, I'd like to replace my head im monster 77  for carving/groomers or 1-2cm of fresh snow as they have 2 steel sheets, i believe, and are a bit too  stiff for my abiliity level...ie they're a bit much for my level on steeps, but on flatter/less steep terrain they are great.

 

i did try at season's end (whistler's demo days) the nordica jet fuel and afterburner series and was very impressed: not too stiff, great edging ability too....

 

so any other suggestions for something to replace the monster for groomers in a high '70s'/low '80s underfoot...

 

 

"they're a bit much for my level on steeps, but on flatter/less steep terrain they are great."

 

You can't buy a turn on ice or in bumps, or in lumpy crud piles-- you need to learn to ski better. An im77 that size is probably not too much ski for you.  And you already have a lighter, softer easier going ski  -- the wateas -- use them if that's what you prefer.

 

You would be better off looking at your boots, having your fit checked by a pro boot fitter and having custom insoles made, rather than buying new skis.

 

If you feel that you must buy a new ski to replace the 77 look at the head supershape or magnum. Or K2 explorer or cross fire, very easy going and forgiving skis that can carve on hard snow. Also the Dynastar Sultan 80. 


Edited by tromano - 9/26/10 at 12:23pm
post #7 of 17

Fischer Progressor 8+, 165cm 

post #8 of 17

Quote:

Originally Posted by canali View Post
......stiff for my level on steeps, but on flatter/less steep terrain they are great.........


I think what others have mentioned = more narrow underfoot.   Stop the arcing and parking....

$.01

post #9 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:

thanks to all who've replied

 

and yes actually next few wks i'm going to go and get some custom insoles  (the balls of my feet get pretty sore at the end of a day sometimes right under big toe).

 

...am considering getting some custom liners, too, but from what i've read, they're not as important given i'm not a racer or a very aggressive skier...but who knows...for now it'll be custom insoles first..

 

 

Originally Posted by tromano View Post


 

 

"they're a bit much for my level on steeps, but on flatter/less steep terrain they are great."

 

You can't buy a turn on ice or in bumps, or in lumpy crud piles-- you need to learn to ski better. An im77 that size is probably not too much ski for you.  And you already have a lighter, softer easier going ski  -- the wateas -- use them if that's what you prefer.

 

You would be better off looking at your boots, having your fit checked by a pro boot fitter and having custom insoles made, rather than buying new skis.

 

If you feel that you must buy a new ski to replace the 77 look at the head supershape or magnum. Or K2 explorer or cross fire, very easy going and forgiving skis that can carve on hard snow. Also the Dynastar Sultan 80. 

post #10 of 17

OK.  It may well be that you are not skiing fast enough to bend the ski to the desired turn size at your weight .  In which case you are perfectly justified in getting a softer, easier flexing ski.  

 

163 to 168 is the correct length for you ON GROOMERS.  However, if you are skiing deep snow, especially deep heavy wet snow that's been tracked out a bit, a longer ski will be easier to ski, as it will support you through sudden changes in resistance as you hit pockets/piles of heavy snow that suck you back like air brakes.

 

The low to mid teen turn radius is also ideal as a learning tool to improve your skiing ON GROOMERS.  The problem with using a short radius ski in deep heavy snow after a dump is that tipping the skis dials up a shorter turn radius than the snow can support; the ski tips will hook up, but you will not have enough of a base of support under you to make that turn; you will end up doing the sideways skiing thing, which is pretty tricky to do with skinny skis in deep snow.  Longer skis will have enough snow under them to support the turn, and a longer radius ski will not dial up a very short turn in the first place.  It takes a fair bit of skill to ski a 165 cm short radius ski in heavy wet tracked up snow.  I didn't realize how much attention and skill it actually took, until I skied my 190 cm skis back to back with my 165 cm 13-m radius ski in about a foot and a half of heavy wet snow.  Doing the same thing with a 190 cm mid twenty radius ski was so much easier.  I had to be on my game with the 165s; I could have read the paper while skiing the 190s.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by canali View Post

 

i don't know if I agree with your suggestion of going longer given my correct length is (for my height and ability) exactly in the 163-168 range...most seasoned instructors and retailers have all been unamimous in that regard...

 

as per your suggetion to 'fix my ability level not change skis' sorry i also disagree: there are different stiffness degrees of course depending on one's ability weight etc...for me the head im monster simply is too stiff on steeper grades and in deeper snow conditions ..yet I don't want something too unforgiving either...seeking more of a mid flex ski....so improving my technique only goes so far as there are a multitude of skis out there reflecting the multitude of different styles/fits etc....and I am trying to improve: was out 35 last yr (with lots of lessons) and hoping to ''rinse and repeat'' this year.


 
post #11 of 17

How did you like the wateas? Did they work for you or not? Where do the wateas fit into the quiver?

 

Have you tried moving your bindings on the heads up 1-2cm from the line? Moving your bindings forward makes it easier to get your weight over the tips. Heads mount point is usually pretty far back from the BOF mount point (ball of foot over running surface mid point of the ski. Some people think this is the preferred mount point for carving turns). Search on epic for more info on BOF mounting if you want. I have tried BOF mounting and itseemed way too far forward to me, but I know some people here to believe in it for groomer / carving specific skis. So no matter what you end up on... its something to think about, discuss with your instructors, ski tech, etc...

 

Where do you really want to go with your skiing?

post #12 of 17

Few different scenarios. First, keep in mind that as you progress again this year, your optimal length will probably go up. I'm 10 lbs lighter than you and the length range you cite is what you'd want for race carvers, not all mountains. Or even 70-something's. Height is less relevant in this regard. At the moment, though, high 160's are fine for the kind of skiing you do. 

 

Second, the 77's are as said a fairly stiff ski, and a rapidly aging design. The reason you like them better on the flats (eg, at speed) is that then you can bend them. They will not help your learning curve. At all. Lose them under both scenarios that follow.

 

OK, Scenario One: As Tromano says, what's wrong with the Wateas? These are an excellent all mountain ski for lighter skiers, they carve well, and they are a good learning platform. Many expert skiers here think highly of them. You could keep them and invest in a better pair of boots, which will help your skiing a lot more. Then, when your learning curve is less steep, get something else, perhaps those Nordies you liked. Since you have the Rossi's already, no reason to turn them over yet, nice ski for typical resort powder, but eventually you'll find them too close to your mid-80's skis. 

 

Or Scenario Two: If you have $$ burning holes in your pockets after you buy new boots and have them fitted, I'd go for a low 70's carver, along the lines of RS's Progressor 8 or a Blizzard Sonic/Force, whatever they're calling the one-down-from-the-Supersonic. Lot of brands to choose from. That will accelerate your learning curve, although it will limit you largely to the frontside. (Not a bad thing right now.) Under this scenario, sell the Wateas, keep the Rossi's for soft days. 

post #13 of 17

I'm going to be selling my 172 Dynastar Mythic Riders that currently live at Whistler soon that have Fluid or rail bindings (about 20 days, great condition, no core shots). Fantastic crud buster, great on groomers, and fine off piste.

 

Read the reviews here and elsewhere - might be what you're looking for. PM me if you're interested in knowing more.

post #14 of 17
Thread Starter 

1--to beyond, tromano and ghost: i have only once (very last day at whistler's ski season, for a few hrs) tried the watea 84, so can't really comment, other than they did feel lighter and more nimble than the head monster im77....i will also check out the low-mid 70s groomers, too, as suggested in a potentially bigger size....might wish to develop a good relationship with a knowledgeable sales rep, so feel free to suggest people at whistler or in vancouver / burnaby you can recommend (I'm going to prob attend for 1st time the whistler turkey sale in oct...any particular stores stand out for good staff/bargoons?)

 

the booster strap also looks interesting too.http://www.masterfitenterprises.com/booster.html

 

my boots btw are the delbello cross ski boots...brand new bought at last season from 'destination ski' in north van...(3 buckle boots)...will get custom insoles).

 

2--i haven't experimented much with moving the bindings either forward or backwards, as that subject is new to me (have to do some reading so feel to send any links)...was told by guy who transferred my bindings from my monsters to the wateas (the railflex system) that it's fine where it is for most of my skiing.

 

cheers


Edited by canali - 9/28/10 at 12:52pm
post #15 of 17


My point about the bindings on the Mythics is that they're on plates, so you don't need to redrill for another bsl.

Quote:
Originally Posted by canali View Post

 

2--i haven't experimented much with moving the bindings either forward or backwards, as that subject is new to me (have to do some reading so feel to send any links)...was told by guy who transferred my bindings from my monsters to the wateas (the railflex system) that it's fine where it is for most of my skiing.

 

cheers

post #16 of 17
Thread Starter 

snofun...sent you a PM on the mythic riders

post #17 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by canali View Post

snofun...sent you a PM on the mythic riders



I have met so many people who say their skiing went up a ton when they bought their mythics. such a classic feel, so confidence inspiring.

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