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Shameless self promotion/photo to check out - Page 2

post #31 of 49
There is no such thing as too much inclination as long as the terrain you are on is steep enough to get you going fast enough to use a lot of inclination. Your inclination is not however supposed to be created from your upper body. It is purely a lower body operation. Your shoulders should be staying square, which is why i mentioned the pinch under your ribs. "Leaning" into your turns creates a whole mess of problems. Usually it is caused by the skier atificially angulating, or trying to get more angulation. In reality leaning hurts you more than it helps you, because it does things like drops your should, puts your hand behind your body, rotates you upper body, and bring pressure off your downhill ski and on to your uphill ski - which is detramental to a high speed turn. We have done drilles with a bamboo pole or a set of ski poles where you put it on your shoulders and try to keep it parallel with the hill while making turns much like the ones you were. You can also keep the pole sin your hands and do the same drill, but then you will have to conciously make sure that your shoulder isnt dropping. If there were a bamboo laid across your shoulders durng that turn you would see that even at your turn initiation you are already leaning in, and you continue to lean in throughout the turn. Also you might try making turns where you lean your upper body in the opposite direction of your turn - to exaggerate the pinch - just to get the feel for it. I'll post some turns or a video in a few months or so. I think my team mate has a digital camera that will do video clips.
Later
GREG
post #32 of 49
Skiprof- ESA is the Epic Ski Academy. There are 2 this year in Utah and a 2 day off shoot the Epic Ski East Coast Tune up. These are clinics offered by a great group of coaches and teachers that are contributors to Epic Ski and have a passion for the sport. The site offers a unique way to maintain dialogue with coach and student. The opportunity to ski with folks you share ideas with from day to day. Click on the link on the main page and learn all about it. Great event to attend and ski with some of the best or offer to coach some of the most dedicated students you will ever meet.

I know the party line CSIA info it just always seems to me when I see the candian demo team ski they tend to demonstate more flexing from the knee in a turn than PSIA D Team. I was just currious on your thoughts? Thanks
post #33 of 49
A great turn, Ski Professor!

I suspect that Herr Ski Professor knows what advice to listen to, what to ignore, and what to just laugh off, but everyone here should realize that this turn represents great skiing. Skiing is not about "positions" and "rules." Those things may apply to certain exercises or drills, but skiing is about putting it all together and moving, acting and reacting to the snow, the pitch, the particular forces of the turn that are unique for each and every turn we make. Ski Professor shows us how with this exemplary turn, but remember that no other turn any one of us, including SP, ever makes will be exactly like this one. Beware of being overly "position-focused"!

We should also remember that, no matter how great any one turn may be, the "perfect" turn has never been skied. Furthermore, each and every one of us has only made our very best turn ONCE--and it probably wasn't caught on video! It's easy to pick apart even the turns of the greatest skiers on earth, but the little imperfections of any one turn are irrelevant. They've already happened, for one thing--that turn is in the past, and nothing about it can be changed. Indeed, one sign of expertise is not the absence of mistakes, but the way in which unanticipated events are dealt with. Some things are predictable in ski turns, but not everything, so skiers must constantly adjust for little imbalances and unexpected forces throughout each turn. It's those adjustments that mark the great skier!

Ski Professor may well have gotten a little (I mean LITTLE) farther inside in this turn than he needed, in retrospect. Perhaps the snow broke away a little bit more than he had (or could have) expected it to--who knows the cause? But that would explain the slight, temporary widening of his stance in the fourth frame, and it could also explain the little extra flexion he shows in the fourth and fifth frames. Are these "mistakes"? Certainly not! These are accurate and appropriate reactions to the little unpredictable things that happen in each and every turn. In this particular case, NOT doing these things would have been a mistake, but in the next turn, who knows?

Especially at high performance and speed levels, so much of good skiing is reaction to things you can't possibly anticipate. High-performance skiing requires that we let go of many preconceived notions of how we "should" move, and allow our bodies to react naturally to these "expected unpredictabilities."

What is important is to identify trends, habits, biases, chronic strengths and errors that are consistent from turn to turn. I'll bet Ski Professor's next turn to the right would be equally great, but would show a whole new set of little irrelevant things to pick on.

This is great skiing. Thanks for posting the links, Ski Professor!

Best regards,
Bob Barnes

[ October 09, 2003, 12:34 PM: Message edited by: Bob Barnes/Colorado ]
post #34 of 49
Thank you for that addition, Bob.
post #35 of 49
Quote:
Originally posted by Ski Professor:
Roto: Why yes I do have a pair of VO's left in my Mom's basement. Every time I visit she tries to make me get rid of them but I just can't do it. You're not a member of some sort of "cult" are you?
cult? What cult? My mom taught me to stay away from cults!

Quote:
Originally posted by Bob Barnes/Colorado:
A great turn, Ski Professor!

Ski Professor may well have gotten a little (I mean LITTLE) farther inside in this turn than he needed, in retrospect. Perhaps the snow broke away a little bit more than he had (or could have) expected it to--who knows the cause?
or more likely, he was really gonna generate some edge angles for that cam! BTDT!

unless being asked to "square up more' did it...

[ October 09, 2003, 09:48 PM: Message edited by: Roto ]
post #36 of 49
Well here's a question...

If that is the Volvo stance, what I want to know is what is the stance for

a) Porche
b) Nissan Pajero (or similar 4WD)
c) Holden ute (Farmers truck)
d) Morris Minor

Secondly, what car best describes your turns?
post #37 of 49
Didn't we have a thread "If you were a car?"

I guess it'd be the rusted out, right hand drive, JagUar XJ12L sitting in my barn at home.
post #38 of 49
Heluva skier is a heluva an idiot.
post #39 of 49
Quote:
Originally posted by Bob Barnes/Colorado:
A great turn, Ski Professor!
Ski Professor may well have gotten a little (I mean LITTLE) farther inside in this turn than he needed, in retrospect. Perhaps the snow broke away a little bit more than he had (or could have) expected it to--who knows the cause? But that would explain the slight, temporary widening of his stance in the fourth frame, and it could also explain the little extra flexion he shows in the fourth and fifth frames. Are these "mistakes"? Certainly not! These are accurate and appropriate reactions to the little unpredictable things that happen in each and every turn. In this particular case, NOT doing these things would have been a mistake, but in the next turn, who knows?
What he said.
post #40 of 49
Okay Pete, now im amused. Elaborate. I'm definitely intrigued by your response... and I'll leave it at that. And, one of the biggest problems with PSIA emerges...
Later
GREG
post #41 of 49
Quote:
Originally posted by HeluvaSkier:
And, one of the biggest problems with PSIA emerges...
You're amused, and I'm confused. What is this problem, and where did it emerge?
post #42 of 49
You get a bunch of level 3 instructors that got their certification 10 years ago who at that point think they need to know nothing more about skiing adn they know all there is to know... that further advancement of their skill or ability isnt possible and they are somehow puperior to the rest of the population. I don't know if this Pete character is PSIA or not, but i see that kind of attitude with many PSIA instructors. Once you get to a certain point they feel no need to continue fine tuning at all. This doesnt apply to all instructors of course, but it does apply to a pretty large group of them... especially those instructors who got their cert. before there was the Level 3 distinction - i think it was full back then. Some of them are amazing skiers and have stuck with technique throughout the years, which is great... there is a lot to be learned from those individuals. But many others continue their "old" ways of thinking and teaching and int heir ignorance still see themselves as the best skiers on the hill even though they are not even close.

I believe that my observations were justified, whether Ski Professor wanted input like that or not is another thing. Several of my team mates looked at the picture before i posted so i could see if my observations were correct, or at least justified. We all came up with the same things. The turn that was posted is a very good turn. Ski Professor is undoubtedly one of the better skiers on the hill at any one time. Is it a perfect turn, definitely not. Does anyone actually make the "perfect turn" - I don't think so... the way i ski and learn, is that i think there is always something new to learn, whether it be from an instructor, a coach, or another skier.

Anyhow, im done in this section of the forum for awhile. I now realize why i never posted here before, and why i dont instruct.

Later

GREG
post #43 of 49
This guy looks OK in the pics. No criticism.
Canadians: there is a Canadian style. Sometimes called The Canadian Crouch. You see a pronounced slump over in the shoulders and back, more than most instructors. They flex in the legs a lot. Poorly trained or inexperienced Canadian instructors will ski in this flexed position all the time, obviously levering off the boot fronts. Some you will never see extend. Some (again poor) Canadian instructors also go for excessive body counter. They will employ body counter you would use for very short turns in all turns even long ones. This does not apply to good Canadian instructors but it might highlight some weaknesses in the system when inexperienced can end up with quite strong skiing faults.

Greg, PSIA must introduce some way to make cert. instructors re-certify. This might be one of the biggest problems of perception of PSIA, when people encounter the Gold Pin stuck on a pretty awful looking skier.
post #44 of 49
There are competent and incompetent practitioners of just about every profession and occupation. Unfortunately, ski instruction is not an exception there.

Newton--you are right that one of the biggest problems in the profession, although hardly unique to PSIA, is that there are few requirements for keeping the certification pin once you achieve it. PSIA requires a minimum of one update clinic every two years, but there is no official re-verification of the skills. It is up to the instructor to remain current, although some ski schools are more demanding of their instructors' continuing education than others.

In the Rocky Mountain Division (PSIA-RM), as in most divisions, we constantly strive to improve our education and certification process. We have completely revamped the Level 3/Full Certification exam for the upcoming season, and we introduced a brand new, more education-based program for Level 1 last season. We are also in the process of revisiting the "re-currency" issue. Believe me, while an out-of-date instructor is a travesty for students, it is his/her fellow instructors who really see red and the profession itself that suffers the damaged reputation.

Above Level 3, in our Trainer Accredited, Divisional Clinic Leader (now called "ITC Examiner," because they lead our Instructor Training Course Level 1 Certification program), and Examiner levels, we have resolved the re-currency issue pretty well. In addition to our annual Fall Training sessions, we have incorporated a trainer's portfolio of continuing education, event audits, participant feedback and peer evaluation, and a skiing skills re-verification program that repeats on a two-year cycle. It is not easy! Nor has the program been universally welcomed. While most have found it motivating, it has prompted a few to retire from the Education Staff since its inception a few years back. Harsh, perhaps, but it is what we have needed.

There is no doubt that the state of ski instruction as a whole, world-wide, has suffered a loss of consistency and a deservedly tarnished reputation. Many ski school directors have been replaced by marketing department heads and suits who understand only the direct short-term financial contribution of the ski school to the shareholders. While cash cow ski schools running hundreds and thousands of unsuspecting students through mediocre beginner programs can be quite lucrative on that bottom line, they do incalculable damage to those students' enjoyment of the sport, and to the industry as a whole in the long run.

PSIA, CSIA, and other national ski instruction educating and certifying bodies have little control over all this. We can set certification standards and develop and offer educational programs, but we cannot control who goes through the programs, or how they actually behave at their jobs. It is the individual resort and ski school that sets hiring, training, and behavior standards. PSIA can train instructors to the highest levels, but we cannot prevent resorts from putting poorly trained, poorly motivated, poorly paid, incompetent instructors in uniform. We can offer unmatched education, but we can't force anyone to take advantage of it!

Ultimately, it is up to the students to demand competent instruction. If you refuse to pay for their product, resorts will have no choice but to improve it. Some ski schools still really do what they can to provide a quality product, with in-house training, selective hiring, and demanding high standards. Even these, of course, can fail to deliver at times--even the best instructors can have bad days. But unless the student complains about bad lessons, there is little incentive for any resort to maintain a higher standard.

We've discussed this many times in the past at EpicSki, but I'll repeat: ski lessons with top instructors can be the best time you'll ever have on snow, time and money well-spent. Every ski school has a few great ones, even if they also hire a lot of duds. Ask for a Full-Certified instructor and tell them you refuse to pay if they can't provide one. That won't guarantee a great lesson, but it will substantially improve your odds. With luck, you'll strike gold. But if the lesson--any lesson, no matter what the instructor's credentials--is anything less than stellar, return to the ski school desk and complain to a supervisor. They hate to hear complaints, and will try to minimize their re-occurance. And they hate to see unhappy customers, and most will go to great lengths to see that you get a superior lesson with one of their best instructors, after refunding your money.

By doing this, you may not help the resort's bottom line that day. But you will do lots of people a favor, including your fellow students, dedicated ski professionals, and ultimately the resort itself. And you'll get a great lesson!

I apologize for helping this thread drift into a tangent.

Best regards,
Bob Barnes
post #45 of 49
Quote:
Originally posted by HeluvaSkier:
You get a bunch of level 3 instructors that got their certification 10 years ago who at that point think they need to know nothing more about skiing adn they know all there is to know... that further advancement of their skill or ability isnt possible and they are somehow puperior to the rest of the population. I don't know if this Pete character is PSIA or not, but i see that kind of attitude with many PSIA instructors. Once you get to a certain point they feel no need to continue fine tuning at all. This doesnt apply to all instructors of course, but it does apply to a pretty large group of them... especially those instructors who got their cert. before there was the Level 3 distinction - i think it was full back then. Some of them are amazing skiers and have stuck with technique throughout the years, which is great... there is a lot to be learned from those individuals. But many others continue their "old" ways of thinking and teaching and int heir ignorance still see themselves as the best skiers on the hill even though they are not even close.

Later

GREG
Sounds like a people problem, not a PSIA problem. PSIA isn't the only place you find people who think they are the best of the best when, actually, they ummm, suck (in relation to the best of the best) for lack of a more specific term.

Oh, and level 3 is actually a much different(less involved) level of cert than full. There is ONE full-cert examiner left in the country. The only one who has the entire list of exam demos. It can take an entire season to even conduct the full-cert exam, as there are several weather and conditions dependent demos that must be completed to before he will brand the candidate(s).
post #46 of 49
Roto-
I have to ask you to clarify what you meant by this-

"Oh, and level 3 is actually a much different(less involved) level of cert than full. There is ONE full-cert examiner left in the country. The only one who has the entire list of exam demos. It can take an entire season to even conduct the full-cert exam, as there are several weather and conditions dependent demos that must be completed to before he will brand the candidate(s)."

Which country, which association, and who is this individual?

:
post #47 of 49
Quote:
Originally posted by HeluvaSkier:
they are somehow puperior
I try my best not to act puperior, but then I'm just a heluva guy.
post #48 of 49
Quote:
Originally posted by vail snopro / ric reiter:
Roto-
I have to ask you to clarify what you meant by this-

"Oh, and level 3 is actually a much different(less involved) level of cert than full. There is ONE full-cert examiner left in the country. The only one who has the entire list of exam demos. It can take an entire season to even conduct the full-cert exam, as there are several weather and conditions dependent demos that must be completed to before he will brand the candidate(s)."

Which country, which association, and who is this individual?

:
You don't expect me to just 'let you in' on tha [Dr. Evil]Big Secret[/Dr. Evil] do you?

Besides, I'm not authorized.
post #49 of 49
Wow..... I must not have a very critical eye.... I just would have said "nice turn"
I'd probably put you a step above a "pretty solid" skier too. :
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