EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Off-Season Sports & The Lighter Side › General Sports › Kootenay bears getting in a few last rounds before hibernation season.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Kootenay bears getting in a few last rounds before hibernation season.

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 

47820_456890597525_502772525_6566452_5488545_n.jpg

post #2 of 22
Thread Starter 

59559_456890227525_502772525_6566436_2700826_n.jpg

post #3 of 22
Thread Starter 

47808_456889657525_502772525_6566411_1794829_n.jpg

post #4 of 22
Thread Starter 

47820_456890582525_502772525_6566449_3888866_n.jpg

post #5 of 22
Thread Starter 

41290_456890827525_502772525_6566459_5871036_n.jpg

post #6 of 22

beautiful creatures for sure, thanks.

post #7 of 22

Nice pictures, thanks for sharin'...just when the EpicSki Bears are coming out of hibernation.

post #8 of 22

I was backpacking in MT way back in the dark ages and we were discussing bears within our group.  A number of the group had never been out west but were used to seeing black bears.  They asked how you could be sure which you were looking at.  I said don't worry you'll know.....there is no mistaking a grizz when you see one in real life...you won't think it's a light colored black bear unless you are near blind.  Gorgeous creatures!! 

post #9 of 22

So, did they let you play through? 

Very nice pictures, and not the kind of obstacle  we generally find on the courses here. 

post #10 of 22

Hi

Gorgeous pictures.

just got back from a week in the kootenay's (Rossland) mostly biking but a little golf as well. curious where these pics were taken.

Thanks  

post #11 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by UGASkiDawg View Post

I was backpacking in MT way back in the dark ages and we were discussing bears within our group.  A number of the group had never been out west but were used to seeing black bears.  They asked how you could be sure which you were looking at.  I said don't worry you'll know.....there is no mistaking a grizz when you see one in real life...you won't think it's a light colored black bear unless you are near blind.  Gorgeous creatures!! 

Surest way to tell which bears you are around is look at the scat. 

 

If it contains hikers whistles and bells, you are in grizzly country (tighten up your tenny runners).

 

post #12 of 22

Actually ,

from what I have learned a black bear is more likely to eat a human than a griz is. That's why the experts tell you to fight a black bear for all your worth if attacked but to play dead if it's a grizzly. not to mention the fact that it's likely hopeless to actually win a fight with a grizzly.other rule is to not be the fattest and slowest in your

group.

post #13 of 22

#2 killer in the woods, after humans, used to be whitetail deer. 

 

Black is more likely to eat you.  Griz/brown more likely to give you a heart attack when you get up close.

 

Great pics!

post #14 of 22
Thread Starter 

I can't take any credit for these pictures; they were sent to me from someone who works at a college in the Kootenays. The photos were taken in Kimberley, BC, at the Bootleg Gap Golf Course. In them we see a sow, with two, 2-year old cubs.

 

Apparently these bears were originally from Elkford, a small town further east, where Momma had caused some trouble. They were captured, drugged and relocated, but now appear to be making their way back home, stopping to play golf along the way. Typical BC tourists.

 

If you look closely in the fourth photograph you will see a tag in the right ear of the most prominent bear. That's bad news for this particular grizzly: she's got a criminal record. According to newspaper reports bears in the Elkford area have been corrupted by game carcasses left by careless hunters. It is hoped that the threesome make their way back to their dens in the Rockies and sleep it off til spring, without causing any more trouble. Next spring the cubs will head off on their own. Let's hope they're not too habituated to easy food. A fed bear is a dead bear, as they say.

post #15 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by xcountry41 View Post

Actually ,

from what I have learned a black bear is more likely to eat a human than a griz is. That's why the experts tell you to fight a black bear for all your worth if attacked but to play dead if it's a grizzly. not to mention the fact that it's likely hopeless to actually win a fight with a grizzly.other rule is to not be the fattest and slowest in your

group.


This is also what I was taught to believe while growing up, but I think the current wisdom is that it matters more what prompted the attack than what breed is involved. Apparently there are predatory attacks and defensive attacks, the latter prompted by anxiety arising from being surprised or encroached upon. In these cases, the bear, whether grizzly or black, isn't intent on lunch, but on self defense. In defensive attacks playing dead (while protecting your head, face and vital organs) is a sensible strategy. If however the bear is bent on predation, playing dead is the worst thing you could do. For more on this, Stephen Herero's Bear Attacks: Their Causes and Avoidance is worth a look.

 

post #16 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tecumseh View Post




This is also what I was taught to believe while growing up, but I think the current wisdom is that it matters more what prompted the attack than what breed is involved. Apparently there are predatory attacks and defensive attacks, the latter prompted by anxiety arising from being surprised or encroached upon. In these cases, the bear, whether grizzly or black, isn't intent on lunch, but on self defense. In defensive attacks playing dead (while protecting your head, face and vital organs) is a sensible strategy. If however the bear is bent on predation, playing dead is the worst thing you could do. For more on this, Stephen Herero's Bear Attacks: Their Causes and Avoidance is worth a look.

 


As an avid mountain biker for the last 22 years Herrero's book has been one of my favorite/most important guides.Generally I think that a predatory attack by either species is rare. however an attack by a black for any reason is out of character and very dangerous. The thought is that if a black gets you out of commission it is more likely to feed off you as it's more of a scavenger. A grizzly encounter is very dangerous because they are very powerful and defensive by nature. Many times though statistics and case studies show that playing dead during a grizzly attack can save your life.as most times the attack is it's response to a percieved threat.Once it feels it has dealt with the threat it's less likely to scavenge from you.I sort of like to think the Griz has more class than the black which will eat anything ,much like a pig. An Ontario woman survived a grizzly attack this summer in yellowstone in which another camper was killed. She said that the griz let her go when she quit fighting and went limp after remembering the advice to play dead. Your statements above are as accurate as any could be on this subject but I think that because predation is so rare in reality I think a general approach may be best. that said I'm not the expert and the book is a very worthwhile read if you travel or recreate in bear country. 
..

post #17 of 22
Thread Starter 

I certainly wasn't trying to suggest that grizzly bears are no more aggressive or dangerous than black bears. I was mostly commenting on the idea that playing dead is usually the best option with regard to grizzlies. I'm not an expert at all, just someone who has read a few books. I checked Herrero before posting my comments. If Herrero is mistaken, so am I. He says, on page 15, "If you are attacked by a grizzly bear following a sudden encounter, I recommend that you passively resist by playing dead." Then on page 48 he analyzes an incident in which Jule Hegelson was killed and her companion, Roy Ducat, mauled. "Playing dead was the wrong strategy for Ducat and Hegelson. Grizzly bears entering camp and methodically starting to chew on people, in contrast to grizzlies who charge and attack are most likely acting as predators. The best resort in this case is to flee or fight back, depending  on the circumstances." Herrero contends that once grizzlies associate food with humans they are more likely to look on humans as food. In general if you are asleep in your tent or your sleeping bag and a grizzly (or any bear) starts to drag you out, it isn't a defensive attack, its predation. Herrero concludes, "Under such circumstances playing dead would be akin to offering yourself to the bear. If you suspect that a grizzly is about to eat you, you must do everything possible to deter the bear momentarily so you can escape. All group members should shout at the bear. Throw things at or near it to try to distract it. Use every possible weapon or deterrent you might have." (p.61)

 

All of this is rather chilling, but for the fact that such attacks are extraordinarily rare. Other common hazards in the backcountry, hazards which don't terrify us, are the hazards that most often kill and maim us. (e.g., Lightning strikes, drowning, hypothermia, etc.)

post #18 of 22

Hey ,

I think we were on the same page and obviously recognize the value of the info in the book. sometimes a little tricky to comment on an idea that someone puts forward in these forums.

Cheers 

post #19 of 22
Thread Starter 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by xcountry41 View Post




The thought is that if a black gets you out of commission it is more likely to feed off you as it's more of a scavenger. A grizzly encounter is very dangerous because they are very powerful and defensive by nature. Many times though statistics and case studies show that playing dead during a grizzly attack can save your life.as most times the attack is it's response to a percieved threat.
..


Hi there, xcountry41. I apologize if through careless reading I missed your point. In the excerpt I've quoted above I took you to be suggesting that black bears, scavengers by nature, are more likely to eat you than is a grizzly, primarily because they will eat anything. My reading of Herrero suggests he thinks otherwise. If the attack is defensive, the black bear isn't interested in eating you, even if hungry, and even if it has lower culinary standards than grizzlies. If you fight back you may be mauled to death, but if you play dead the black is much less likely to harm you and is very unlikely to eat you. And as for the grizzly attack it all depends on whether the grizzly is hunting you or simply alarmed by you. If griz has been tracking you for a while, if he comes into your camp at night and swats you out of your sleeping bag, as happened to Helgeson, then you shouldn't play dead. I believe Herrero's point is that you need to decide what to do on the basis of the bear's behavior at the time and not in terms of a general rule regarding the differences between grizzlies and blacks. 

 

Thanks for responding. Spent last night reading hair-raising stories in Herrero. He lives just up the road from my summer place on Slocan Lake, in Hills. Never met him though.

 

 

 

post #20 of 22

Hey Tecumseh,

well all I can claim is that I XC skiied against him in the Canadian Birkebeiner and kicked his ass.

one of the best books I have ever read. Came home from my Rossland trip on thursday past Slocan lake. never travelled that way usually go through Creston/Fernie back to Alberta. Very nice place for a summer getaway and likely need the book more than I . Cheers 

post #21 of 22
Thread Starter 

You're right about needing the book in the New Denver area, especially this last summer with the poor berry crop up in the mountains. It was a teddy bears' picnic all summer long at my cabin, with the bears hanging around all the old fruit trees in the area. Had a couple of close encounters, including a 'things-that-go-bump-in-the-night' experience, but never with grizzlies. I'm a nordic skier too but I can't remember the last time I kicked anybody's ass in any race. Come to think of it, I've never kicked anyone's ass, except my own. The Birkebeiner! That's serious stuff. The furthest east I've ever been for a race is La Ronge, for the Saskaloppet, and that was mostly flat.

 

Cheers!

post #22 of 22

The woman from Ontario that survived the attack was in the same campground as a fellow who did not survive the attack and was in fact partly eaten by what turned out to be a fairly unhealthy female with two cubs.  The sow only weighed 150 pounds and the cubs were pretty severely underweight.  The sow was put down and the cubs are now at Zoo Montana in Billings.  The attack was at night and there was no evidence that any food was improperly stored or handled.  The general thinking among the grizzly experts is that playing dead is the best approach if you are attacked, unless you're attacked in your tent at night in which case you should fight back with all you've got.  Their belief is that a bear who attacks a person in their tent at night is absolutely looking for a meal.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Sports
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Off-Season Sports & The Lighter Side › General Sports › Kootenay bears getting in a few last rounds before hibernation season.