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All mountain on piste help? Steep groomers and bumps

post #1 of 66
9/9/10 at 10:30am
Thread Starter 

I need to start building my quiver, I am looking for a good on piste ski. Particularly a ski for the "bullet proof" hard pack days of the north easy. I want something that has good edge hold and that I can really push the pace on the steep groomers with. I was thinking about going to with something like a volk raceticer rc or something similar.

 

   My other criteria is a ski that will handle well in the bumps. I know you are never going to find a ski that will be the best at two or more things, but I am willing to sacrafice some groomer performance for mogul performance.

 

I have found a few good deals on slightly used or new leftovers of Volkl race tigers, volkl tigershark 10 with the power switch. Fishcer progressor 9s and kastle mx 78. I was leaning towards the tiger sharks, I figure with the power switch turned off they will be pretty goo din the bumps and I have heard great things about edge hold on the groomers. I have also heard some great reviews of the kastles. Any input wouldbe greatly appreciated. Thanks guys.

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post #2 of 66
9/9/10 at 10:37am

personally not a fan of the tigersharks just heavy. Doubt they are much good in bumps, from my last time on them they were tiring off trail(at snowbird)

 

IF you can afford the Kastles they should work great for you.

 

My progressor 9 were decent skinny all mountain carvers, again another good choice.

 

There are ton of good skis out there in the almost race ski/carver what have you skied thus far and what do you like?

 

 

 

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post #3 of 66
9/9/10 at 11:05am

I think you are on the right track with the MX78.

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post #4 of 66
9/9/10 at 11:12am

What size are you thinking? Bump skiing is more about the skier than than the skis, if you can ski bumps, you can adjust to the ski, if you are having issues with bumps, a lesson will help you more than any ski. The Kastles would be a great choice and although they are expensive, they are well worth the $$. WHile I would love the KTi plate for the hard snow aspect of what you are looking for, in the bumps it isn't the ideal way to go. A MX78 w/o KTi would be a great option as would the new LX82. 

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post #5 of 66
9/9/10 at 11:15am

I think you cannot go wrong with a slalom race ski in 165.  Fantastic on the hardpack and in icy conditions, incredible control and fantastic in the bumps.  Because a true race slalom ski can be expensive, anything close to that in dimension would work well too. 

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post #6 of 66
9/9/10 at 11:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Walkoe View Post

I think you cannot go wrong with a slalom race ski in 165.  Fantastic on the hardpack and in icy conditions, incredible control and fantastic in the bumps.  Because a true race slalom ski can be expensive, anything close to that in dimension would work well too. 


eh no

 

worst bump ski ever. really. Your probably a really good skier and dont realize how good you are.

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post #7 of 66
9/9/10 at 11:36am

At first I was recommending the MX78.  This ski lives to be arced turn to turn on the East coast packed snow.  However the KTI plate will stiffen the ski up a bit for the bumps, and might be a bit more rigid than you are looking for.  That being said....how many how many good bump runs are there truly here in the east, as well how much time are you planning on spending in said bumps.  

 

Phil brought up a great potential solution here with the LX82.  This ski is such a dream.  At 6'1 280 (last year) this ski (172cm) was my top choice on most days here in the East.  With the softer poplar and ash woods, combined with two sheets of metal, this ski was ready to run no matter what I threw at her.  Especially in March when I finally made it to Hunter Mt to ski with some friends from NY.  Hunter had just received 80+ inches of snow the week prior.  All of the BUMP freaks in southern NY were out.  The entire hill was one giant bump zone.  Legit Cali 1970 VW Bug sized bumps.  The bumps we dream of here in the East.  First and only pick of the day was the LX82.  

 

Nimble enough to zip through the bumps all day (first chair to last chair with no lunch), yet sturdy enough to hold edge when needed where the snow had been scraped out, or where the MT managed to get a groomer up.  

 

Cheers!

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post #8 of 66
9/9/10 at 11:58am
Thread Starter 

When I am on piste I say I ski about 50% bumps 50% groomers. I really fell in love bump skiing this past year, and have taken a zipper line approach. I found these kastle demos http://www.powder7.com/sale-skis/model/Kastle-MX78-Skis-176cm-Used-2010 I am 5"7 160lbs and an aggressive skier. I usually ski a 170 cm ski and hav etried shorter skis as shorter as 160cm and I generally do not like them. I think a 168cm would be my choice for the kastle if i could find it, but would i be making a mistake going with the 176 if I had to?

 

I found these fischers as well http://www.evo.com/outlet/skis/fischer-progressor-9-bindings-used-2009.aspx?utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=shoppingengine&utm_campaign=googlebase for cheap

 

I also found a pair of new fischer 9s for like 600 think it is worth the extra dollars?

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post #9 of 66
9/9/10 at 12:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TFull View Post

When I am on piste I say I ski about 50% bumps 50% groomers. I really fell in love bump skiing this past year, and have taken a zipper line approach. I found these kastle demos http://www.powder7.com/sale-skis/model/Kastle-MX78-Skis-176cm-Used-2010 I am 5"7 160lbs and an aggressive skier. I usually ski a 170 cm ski and hav etried shorter skis as shorter as 160cm and I generally do not like them. I think a 168cm would be my choice for the kastle if i could find it, but would i be making a mistake going with the 176 if I had to?

 

I found these fischers as well http://www.evo.com/outlet/skis/fischer-progressor-9-bindings-used-2009.aspx?utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=shoppingengine&utm_campaign=googlebase for cheap

 

I also found a pair of new fischer 9s for like 600 think it is worth the extra dollars?

How about a NEW pair of 9+ 165's w. bindings for 449 shipped. 
 

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post #10 of 66
9/9/10 at 12:13pm
Thread Starter 

That sounds like a pretty good deal. What year are they? Why are you selling them. I am always weary of skiing shorter than 170, I tend to dislikes skies shorter than that, but what is 5cm really?

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post #11 of 66
9/9/10 at 12:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TFull View Post

That sounds like a pretty good deal.(1) What year are they? (2)Why are you selling them. I am always weary of skiing shorter than 170, I tend to dislikes skies shorter than that,(3) but what is 5cm really?

(1) 2010

 

(2) It is what I do

 

(3) 1.968504 inches. 

 

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post #12 of 66
9/9/10 at 1:22pm

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post

(1) 2010

 

(2) It is what I do

 

(3) 1.968504 inches. 

 


 

I understand life in Tahoe is treating you well.

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post #13 of 66
9/9/10 at 1:47pm
Thread Starter 

I like your direct answering style very much, When do you need an answer, that seems like the best deal I am going to find. I have never actually skied the progressor 9, do you have an experience with it?

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post #14 of 66
9/9/10 at 2:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TFull View Post

I like your direct answering style very much, When do you need an answer, that seems like the best deal I am going to find. I have never actually skied the progressor 9, do you have an experience with it?


We want them gone, the first person with money gets 'em. Be it here, or in the store. No pressure but...tick...tick...tick..

 

But seriously, while this is a smokin deal on these skis, and it is one of the skis you asked for, it is not the best choice for what you are looking for. For about the same money, a 170 Nordica Nitrous Ti for $419 would be a better option. I am not saying I won't take your money, but it could be better spent. 

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post #15 of 66
9/9/10 at 3:05pm

I run the Volkl tigershark 10 foot without the powerswitch, and they are by far the best ski I've run on the corduroy..  I'm a big guy, 6'1'' 260 (in a 36"-38" pant) and they hold my weight at the 178 length without issue at any speed.  I found the weight of the ski helps to really keep it stable if there is some vibration from cookies or a overnight freeze.  On ice, they held as good if not better than any ski I've owned.

 

HOWEVER- throw 4-6" of fresh powder on the hill, and it gets messy.  The waist is too thin and the ski is to heavy and becomes a burden. 

 

Hence why I'm looking at the All Mountain Ski sector.  Light skis will help with my resposiveness in the bumps, make the fresh pow pow skiing a bit easier, and a little bit more enjoyable cruising type ski.   Some of my favorites in the all mountain sector are:

 

Line Prophet 90/100's.   Lighter ski, nice waist, and medium forgiveness..   For some reason, the 172 length is 250g lighter than th 165, which I dont understand.

Volkl Bridge.  Decent ski, great build quality and better forgiveness but an ugly topsheet.   Not quite as "beefy" as I'd like.  But that's freeride/all mountain for you.

 

I haven't been on the Head Peak 82's, but word on the street is they are the cat's pajamas.

 

 

Hopefully that helps, from a fellow expert east coaster.

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post #16 of 66
9/9/10 at 3:08pm

Just realized I posted that from my accidental signup account. 

 

 

Quote:
 

I run the Volkl tigershark 10 foot without the powerswitch, and they are by far the best ski I've run on the corduroy..  I'm a big guy, 6'1'' 260 (in a 36"-38" pant) and they hold my weight at the 178 length without issue at any speed.  I found the weight of the ski helps to really keep it stable if there is some vibration from cookies or a overnight freeze.  On ice, they held as good if not better than any ski I've owned.

 

HOWEVER- throw 4-6" of fresh powder on the hill, and it gets messy.  The waist is too thin and the ski is to heavy and becomes a burden. 

 

Hence why I'm looking at the All Mountain Ski sector.  Light skis will help with my resposiveness in the bumps, make the fresh pow pow skiing a bit easier, and a little bit more enjoyable cruising type ski.   Some of my favorites in the all mountain sector are:

 

Line Prophet 90/100's.   Lighter ski, nice waist, and medium forgiveness..   For some reason, the 172 length is 250g lighter than th 165, which I dont understand.

Volkl Bridge.  Decent ski, great build quality and better forgiveness but an ugly topsheet.   Not quite as "beefy" as I'd like.  But that's freeride/all mountain for you.

 

I haven't been on the Head Peak 82's, but word on the street is they are the cat's pajamas.

 

 

Hopefully that helps, from a fellow expert east coaster.

 

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post #17 of 66
9/9/10 at 3:53pm

You do have a problem.  While a 165 cm SL race ski might not be the Worst bump ski ever (I suck at bumps, but I suck at a higher level on SLs than on SGs), their turn radius is a bit too short for high speed turns.  You can make high speed turns on them at large radii, but it's not the same as making those turns with a ski designed to carve at those radii.

 

There are plenty of skis, race and near race that would meet your high speed needs, but most are too stiff for bumps (eg. Atomic race GS, Head i. speed pr SS speed, Fischer RC, and gs race ski).  My first choice for a ski in this category (high speeds, hard snow, without being too limiting in other conditions, e.g. still be adequate for bumps or the occasional deeper snow or short off-trail jaunt) would be the Kästle RX12 in a 176.   The 16.5 m turn radius is a nice compromise. 

 

Caveat emptor: I tend to like carving edge-locked-in turns.  If you're more into smearing turns, you might not share my opinion.

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post #18 of 66
9/10/10 at 6:31am
Thread Starter 

Nah2323, I hear what you are saying about the tiger shark in crud and powder, I recently bought a pair of fischer misfits, for such days, as well as in the woods and when we get even more snow. I am looking to even out my quiver for those days in vermont where it is an ice field and rock hard, but still be able to take them through a mogul field.

 

Philpug: Thank you for the honest opinion, I have never skied the nordica either, why do you say it would fit my needs better? Do you also have this ski for sale?

 

Thanks again guys, only a few more months til we get to strap on the boots!!

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post #19 of 66
9/10/10 at 6:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TFull View Post

Nah2323, I hear what you are saying about the tiger shark in crud and powder, I recently bought a pair of fischer misfits, for such days, as well as in the woods and when we get even more snow. I am looking to even out my quiver for those days in vermont where it is an ice field and rock hard, but still be able to take them through a mogul field.

 

Philpug: Thank you for the honest opinion, I have never skied the nordica either, why do you say it would fit my needs better? Do you also have this ski for sale?

 

Thanks again guys, only a few more months til we get to strap on the boots!!

The Nordica is a bit wider at 78 underfoot also not quite as stiff as the Pro9 w/o costing much in hard snow ability. It will also be a better ski in the bumps plus you can get it in the 170cm that you want. And yeah, coincidently, we have it in stock. While it is not the perfect ski, the closest here is the LX82 (MX78 1A here) it is tough to pass up the value at around $400 w/ bindings..shipped.
 

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post #20 of 66
9/10/10 at 7:20am
Thread Starter 

You have a kastle LX82 with bindings for $400?

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post #21 of 66
9/10/10 at 8:15am

How about the Nordica Fire Arrow 74?

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post #22 of 66
9/10/10 at 9:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TFull View Post

You have a kastle LX82 with bindings for $400?


.... No, not even apiece 

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post #23 of 66
9/10/10 at 11:17am
Thread Starter 

 

While it is not the perfect ski, the closest here is the LX82 (MX78 1A here) it is tough to pass up the value at around $400 w/ bindings..shipped.
 

 

What did you mean by this? I am lost

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post #24 of 66
9/10/10 at 8:51pm

I think he's saying that they are comparable, at a much better cost.

 

You can give the tsharks a try, they are very exciting.  Only thing I've noticed is they wear me out a little as far as tip control is concerned at the end of the day, but I can't be sure until this season..  I'm getting a stiffer boot with 3/8" shell fit, so my responsiveness will improve this season. 

 

Tsharks are a desired ski in the east.   Find a demo day, but worst case if you do nab a pair, you'll be able to sell without issue.   Do yourself a favor though, don't waste the money on the powerswitch.  It's kinda like the stiffness switch on the boots.  Who actually uses it?   I know I don't.  I crank it up and let it rip, I think I've adjusted it twice.

 

http://potterbrothers.com/demo.php

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post #25 of 66
9/11/10 at 3:32am

If your going to get Tiger Sharks, go for the 11 foot.  Radius is a bit short for high speeds, but it's better than the 10.

Unknown Object

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post #26 of 66
9/11/10 at 3:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post

If your going to get Tiger Sharks, go for the 11 foot.  Radius is a bit short for high speeds, but it's better than the 10.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbVKWCpNFhY

I've never skied any ski with a stiffness adjusting switch, but I've taken many of my favourite skis through moguls and wished I had a such a switch on them.
 

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post #27 of 66
9/11/10 at 3:38am

edit made a new post again!

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post #28 of 66
9/11/10 at 3:59am

I really like my Mantras on hard snow day. It's the reason I bought them. Bumps are fine on them too. Some people said they sucked here, but haven't had any issues so far.

 

Many will disagree.

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post #29 of 66
9/11/10 at 6:14am
Thread Starter 

I have heard great thing of the mantra but a little to wide for this application I want something quick edge to edge, I have a midfat ski for east powder and crud already, but thanks for the input. I have heard alot of complaints about the mantra in moguls, I imagine they are not ideal but I have an inclination that the people complaining about them are just not good bump skiers

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post #30 of 66
9/11/10 at 6:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TFull View Post

I have heard great thing of the mantra but a little to wide for this application I want something quick edge to edge, I have a midfat ski for east powder and crud already, but thanks for the input. I have heard alot of complaints about the mantra in moguls, I imagine they are not ideal but I have an inclination that the people complaining about them are just not good bump skiers

 

mantras are far from the best bump skis....

 



 

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