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Ski Coach Stuff---Lutsen Spring Series Races are they legit?

post #1 of 6
Thread Starter 
From ski racing website. Point counterpoint on validity of points from these races. Any other point give away races that should be exposed? Is this really a point give away?


Ski racing article on race results


Info and results from spring series races.

post #2 of 6
Most of the juniors up here think ANY lower 48 race is a points giveaway. Seriously though, I think it's a great way to end the season as long as the FIS-level racers don't sandbag to give the juniors a leg up in the points that they haven't earned. Show them what the next level of racing is like, give them a target to shoot for, and have a good time before the snow is gone. Sounds like a plan to me.

As for the venue, I can't really comment since I've never been there. However, if the profits help finance a good program that is turning out quality racers, I tend to be a little understanding if the hill isn't quite World Cup quality.

Points aside, the main question is whether or not the experience is positive for the juniors and their development. 90% of them aren't going to go on to race at a higher level, so why not give them the memory of skiing against a racer like Koz?

I've read the negatives, but I'm not sure I think they're all that important in the long run. Perhaps if I was in a more hyper-competitive region I might feel differently.
post #3 of 6
I've been involved with this race almost since the beginning. The "pace" skiers are instructed not to hold back. Great pains are taken to assure that the courses for them are smooth and safe so that they won't be afraid to go all out. The goal of the organizers is to expose athletes to just how fast these WC level athletes are. Not to produce bogus points. I've been present when these athletes were instructed as such. Also there's a fair amount of competition among them and they don't want to let someone else beat them.
Surely the level of intensity isn't the same as a WC or National meet but they don't give points away. The flat terrain is a factor in the results. There's only so much you can do on that GS hill. I once had a conversation with Steve Mahre about Terry Ahola, a Central racer who had been on the team with Steve. Steve said,"Terry can kick my butt on a flat hill". That used to be true when the Pro Tour would visit the Mid West too. People you'd never heard of would win.
post #4 of 6
Lutsen provides a great venue for regional kids to strut with some big name, low point skiers. I took one of my Jrs up there a few years back and he was thrilled that he was even in the same race as Bode Miller. The races were cleaned up by a family hot Canadians, all brothers and cousins named Teshe(?) or something like that. I felt the point rabbits were really going after each other and showing some great skiing. The kids had a great experience and got a good calibration on where they were at.
post #5 of 6
Very interesting!
I’ve heard stories of outright manipulation at the Western NY Slush Cup races, but I think good TD can keep that stuff in check.
The main problem here though appears to stem from the fact that each discipline has its own F value, which doesn’t change depending on the course. Note how the F value is progressively higher for progressively faster disciplines. That means that for any given discipline, the easier/straighter/faster the course, the better the points for lesser-skilled skiers.
So if Lutsen’s terrains dictate that any GS course is bound to be pretty easy & straight (by FIS standards), then it’s going to be a points bonanza, even if no intentional manipulation exists.
post #6 of 6
That's a good point.
It explains the course I set there a few years ago where I tried to put a turn in in the steeper section and got my verticle distance a little too close. All the "fast" guys scrubbed a bunch of speed but the slower ones who didn't have any to begin with did just fine. Everyone from about 20th on down got great results.
OOPS [img]redface.gif[/img]
(got me a lot of free drinks that night)

[ May 28, 2003, 10:34 AM: Message edited by: SLATZ ]
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