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Americans vs Europe off piste - Page 3

post #61 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiingaround View Post

2. The Americans only entered the war after Pearl Harbour. Hitler then declared war on America.


 

Minor point here, Germany actually declared war upon the US first, before the US declaration of war. At that time, compared to the puny army of the US, theirs was a colossus.

 

I'm still not sure what this has to do with off piste skiing though.

post #62 of 77

The only reason I will allow one point to go to Europe, is because Shania Twain lives there...in Switzerland.  However, she's (North) American (Canadian) soooo...forget the point.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by skiingaround View Post

1. The Germans lost the war, they attacked Russia. The majority of their resources were spent on this lost cause.

2. The Americans only entered the war after Pearl Harbour. Hitler then declared war on America.

3. Volvo is one of the most solid, reliable cars around, maybe even up there with Toyota. American cars like piling on the horses, but don't make the needed corresponding changes to the car eg braking, suspension etc to enable it make the most of the muscle.

4. Bigger, more powerful sums of the American way of thinking, as can be seen in their skis and skiing. Big toys with little finesse.

post #63 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobody View Post

  It would help if you were to clearly discuss which and why you think it's misinformation...
 


Where to start?

 

"When I was in American everything is so much more controlled"

 

"Well, about one third of people with avalanche beacons I see with it strapped to their back back"

 

"You never have to worry about a crevasse in the US"

 

"Go ahead and try suing a ski resort for an accident and you will soon find out it is not an easy matter"

 

"It seems like the only people who still care about moguls are East Coasters."

 

"and it may be illegal in the US to ski out of bounds, (an actual crime), while in Europe out of bounds skiing is at your own risk."

 

 

post #64 of 77

Nobody,

 

Don't care where that guy is from, or who he is.  SWEET!  Great terrain, nice snow, fine turns.  THANK YOU!

 

East Coasters, West Coasters, and Midwesterners all ski a mountain a little differently. How many posts do we read from mountain folks talking smack about the flatlanders and Texans?  Why shouldn't Europeans treat their mountains differently too?  Would suspect that there is a wide range of differences in how the regions ski an area too.  That said, after a couple of days in a different region NA skiers seem to pretty much adapt to more of the local custom (Westerner going to the ice coast maybe the exception).  Do Euros do the same when they head to different regions?  If they are in a large enough pack the group dynamics might blow that out of the snow though just like here.

 

Would be interesting to spend a day skiing with an international group where nobody speaks the same language on a neutral mountain.  Wonder if you could tell who was from where, or care?

 

 

 

post #65 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by FujativeOCR View Post


I see no reference to the skier in the videos' heritage.  He could be an American for all we know, so I see this post as irrelevant. 
 


 


Unfortunately, I can't take credit for the skiing in that vid, the guys are Italians. The straightlining at around a minute in is absolutely insane skiing. That's an extremely narrow chute, and quite steep too. I've skied it once (perhaps I'm the only American who's ever skied it!). Then again, knowing the kid who did it (I saw him straightline our backbowl when he was eight years old), it's not all that surprising.

post #66 of 77

The Italians I've encountered off piste are not only screaming fast on the descent, they fly on the ascent as well. Maybe it's the lycra racing suits, fuelled by espresso.

post #67 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stranger View Post

Nobody,

 

Don't care where that guy is from, or who he is.  SWEET!  Great terrain, nice snow, fine turns.  THANK YOU!

 

East Coasters, West Coasters, and Midwesterners all ski a mountain a little differently. How many posts do we read from mountain folks talking smack about the flatlanders and Texans?  Why shouldn't Europeans treat their mountains differently too?  Would suspect that there is a wide range of differences in how the regions ski an area too.  That said, after a couple of days in a different region NA skiers seem to pretty much adapt to more of the local custom (Westerner going to the ice coast maybe the exception).  Do Euros do the same when they head to different regions?  If they are in a large enough pack the group dynamics might blow that out of the snow though just like here.

 

Would be interesting to spend a day skiing with an international group where nobody speaks the same language on a neutral mountain.  Wonder if you could tell who was from where, or care?

 

 

 



I've been skiing for years in a mixed German/Italian group where less than an handful of us were speaking both languages...

We greatly enjoyed the company, even with the given personality contrasts (which would happen anyway even in an homogeneous group, and maybe be even worse).

Ang again, wrt skiing offpiste and mountaineering, each area has its own peculiarities, as often said, euro skiers often seems timid because most of us only take one or two weeks skiing periods, and often don't spend a season skiing only one place. Not enough time to acquire the daring, skills and knowledge of the area to venture off piste and take risks, unless accompanied by a guide.

 

Stranger, if you ever come over, do give us an heads up...

post #68 of 77

Last time I went skiing off-piste in Italy it was with a British girl and a Hungarian named Attila. I kid you not, Attila the Hungarian. Anyway, neither were holiday skiers, and all three of us did not have our transceivers attached to our packs.

post #69 of 77

Actually, Attila is a very common name in Hungarian. Though the Hungarians are not related to the Huns, in all likelihood.

post #70 of 77

This entire thread is hilarious.   ...and here I was thinking that skiers only acted like jerks towards snowboarders.   Turns out that skiers don' t like ANYBODY.  Not even other skiers!

 

post #71 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarzanman View Post

Turns out that skiers don' t like ANYBODY. 

 


That's not true! I like myself, and I'm somebody (last time I checked).

 

It's just everyone else that gets on my nerves.

post #72 of 77


Day? At mission ridge all the powder is skied out before 11am and the mountain opens at 9... We have to get creative and hike in order to hit anything good after 11. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ecimmortal View Post

I'll bite on this. I know there is some amazing off-piste skiers, and some amazing terrain in Europe. I don't think the intention was to say that no one ski's off the trail in Europe.

HOWEVER, from my experience. The average european skier is less inclined to go off of the trail, and is less interested in pow. I went on a trip with a bunch of Poles, and the fact that I was riding 15 feet off of the trail completely mortified them. Nevermind a 10 foot huck. I spent the entire week on untouched pow completely within sight of the trail. In the US this would have been skied out in a day given the amount of people at this particular resort.



 

post #73 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowbirdDevotee View Post

.   I'm heading to St Anton this winter, will let you know.

 

 

I was at St Anton back in '01 and signed up for a Off Piste Tour through the ski school.  Each day we started out on a couple of groomers to warm up and then would head up the highest lift, duck under the rope and then follow out instructor/guide to the next village where we could hop a chair back up to the top to repeat.  I did this for 4 out of the 5 days I skied and had a blast.  My class included skiers from several different countries in Europe (England, Spain, Denmark, Germany, Austria etc.) and all of them craved skiing off piste,just like me.  If this program is still running, I highly reccomend it.  I still remember our instructors name, Andrew.  He grew up in the shadow of St. Anton and seemed to know every inch of the place, in addition to being an awesome skier and coach.

 

If you are planning on skiing off piste while there, you had better beware of where you are going and what lies ahead.  Several times when spotting some great looking snow and some awesome lines, I would ask Andrew if we could ski it,  He would then tell me that if we went that way, we would cliff out, or we would have a long walk out.  I eventually stopped asking and just trusted him.  BTW if you need rescued off piste over in Europe, you will be responsible for the cost of the rescue which can be quite costly.  One of the best if not THE BEST time I have ever had skiing!

 

Good luck,

 

Rick G

post #74 of 77
I find it interesting that in the eyes of just about everybody who has posted, Europe = the Alps. That's equivalent to thinking that the only place to go skiing in North America is Colorado. And in fact most of you are talking about only a handful of the most famous Alpine resorts: Chamonix, St Anton, Trois Vallees, La Grave.... Open your minds guys! There is the same diversity of skiing terrain, snow conditions and resort character in Europe as there is North America and it stretches over about 20 countries and nearly as many languages/cultures. Making sweeping generalisations about "Europe" is just nonsense.
post #75 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperkub View Post

I find it interesting that in the eyes of just about everybody who has posted, Europe = the Alps. That's equivalent to thinking that the only place to go skiing in North America is Colorado. And in fact most of you are talking about only a handful of the most famous Alpine resorts: Chamonix, St Anton, Trois Vallees, La Grave.... Open your minds guys! There is the same diversity of skiing terrain, snow conditions and resort character in Europe as there is North America and it stretches over about 20 countries and nearly as many languages/cultures. Making sweeping generalisations about "Europe" is just nonsense.


But it's still ok to make sweeping generalizations about Eastern vs Western skiing, right?  Because if not, there goes half of the trash talking on this site.

 

post #76 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperkub View Post

I find it interesting that in the eyes of just about everybody who has posted, Europe = the Alps. That's equivalent to thinking that the only place to go skiing in North America is Colorado. And in fact most of you are talking about only a handful of the most famous Alpine resorts: Chamonix, St Anton, Trois Vallees, La Grave.... Open your minds guys! There is the same diversity of skiing terrain, snow conditions and resort character in Europe as there is North America and it stretches over about 20 countries and nearly as many languages/cultures. Making sweeping generalisations about "Europe" is just nonsense.



The difference is that, unlike in North America, the vast majority of skiers in Europe are in one group of mountains.

 

Yes, there are resorts in Scandinavia, the Pyrenees, Scotland, and various parts of Eastern Europe. But the number of resorts and number of people skiing those resorts are nowhere near what you see in the Alps. And since the major resorts in the Alps bring in skiers from all over the continent (as well as others), the ski culture is quite representative of the wider population rather than a specific local area.

 

The Alps are the melting pot of European skiing. Even people from other ski regions take trips there. For example, last week in St. Anton I was in a group with several Scottish people, saw loads of Scandinavians and Eastern Europeans all around, and even rode a lift with some Frenchmen (in addition to people from other parts of the world). So, St. Anton doesn't just represent skiers from one small part of western Austria; it's much more diverse than that. The same goes for the other big hitters.

 

The fact is, no one has the time or knowledge to have an in-depth conversation about every little cluster of ski resorts in every single part of the world. If you want to have any sort of meaningful discussion about general trends, you can't be that specific.

post #77 of 77
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowbirdDevotee View Post

That's nonsense.  There are no endless litigation issues in America ski resorts.  Go ahead and try suing a ski resort for an accident and you will soon find out it is not an easy matter.   Litigation is not something that Americans skiers consider very often.  I don't even know what you are talking about.  If the big mountains out West have an area closed, it is closed for a good reason, for your personal safety.  You can find plenty of extreme skiing open, at your own risk, at many of our resorts.  

I have heard of a few Europeans talk about the what I term as an exaggerated threat of litigation in America. Instead, Europe is a namby pampy world full of endless rules and regulations that detract from personal freedom, who needs litigation when ever breath you take is in some rulebook.

What, you use La Grave as an example and you are not even sure of the name for the place, did you read about it in a book?  La Grave is an anomaly in the ski world, it is a one of a kind area that serves as a poor example of the risks involved in skiing.

 

I skied last year at Zermatt, not my kind of skiing, and was very unimpressed with the Europeans daring to go beyond the poles!  It seemed to me that 99% of them stayed within the safety of the poles, even when there was good, safe skiing to be found outside of them.  It was my only trip to Europe, but an well-traveled American I met told me that was how it goes all throughout Europe.   I'm heading to St Anton this winter, will let you know.

 

There is a big difference between Eastern and Western US resorts.  It is true that in the East there are far more closed areas and rules, that is because the skiers tend to much less skilled and much more likely to get into trouble.  But try breaking your leg while jumping into Corbets at Jackson Hole, or on KT-22 at Squaw, or on the Cirque at Snobird.  There won't be any lawsuit worries, and the ski patrol will evacuate you, for free, no matter how far over your head you got yourself into.  There are not signs on every little rock sticking out of the ground, nor on every tree, but for your safety most of the cliffs are marked and roped off.


America is generally a much more litigious society than continental Europe.  And do you really think the owners of American ski resorts don't worry about the prospect of lawsuits? 

 

I skied Zermatt off piste with a guide two years ago.  Anyone who goes far off piste there without a guide is crazy.  But we saw plenty of people doing that (no harnesses, beacons or safety equipment of any kind).  There were was a serious rescue the week I was there.  The victim skied past our group solo and went a different route.  Our guide heard the next day that the guy fell into a crevice.  The guide guessed it was the same guy we saw based on a description of his clothing, age and the location where he was found. He was found alive but in really bad shape.

 

I've seen plenty of posters complain about all the "rules" in Europe as compared to the U.S. Where I've skied in Europe, Val D'Isere, Tignes, Zermatt and Verbier.  I just haven't seen any evidence of these rules.  And there is no one to enforce these rules (if such rules in fact existed).  In six days at Val D'Isere/Tignes last week, I saw the ski patrol once.

 

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