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Can't decide on a ski...Need some help

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 

Hey guys,

 

Been reading the forums here for a while.  I finally joined and this will be my first post.  I need some help....I've been researching like a mad man trying to pick a ski for this season....In fact I think I've over researched cause now I just can't make a decision. 

 

A little about me....I moved away to an area where skiing was not an option for a few years and sold my gear along the way.  I'm now back in beautiful British Columbia Canada and needing to get fully geared up for this season.  I'm 6'3", about 225-230 lbs., intermediate skier (Getting better though).  I will mainly be skiing Whistler/Blackcomb as my home hill and sometimes Silverstar, Sunpeaks, and Big White.  I ski pretty much in bounds 95 percent of the time....Groomers, Crud, Pow, and a bit of park for some medium jumps, no rails, no moguls.  I started experimenting with Switch riding last season I skied and had a ton of fun doing it so my new skis have to be twin tip.  It's my 30th birthday this year and using that as an excuse to spend a bit of money and get good equipment that will hopefully last me a few years and keep me happy for as long with what I picked.  I'll pick up boots in a shop where I can get fitted properly so mainly just looking for advice on the skis themselves here, and maybe some binding advice too.

 

I've gotten some conflicting advice from a few different local shops which is adding to the confusion.  I was originally set on Gotamas.  One shop says they're awesome, another says I should look at Bent Chetlers or Jp vs. Juliens, and the first shop says they are shit.....So....Here I am....

 

The skis I've been researching are :

 

1. Volkl Gotamas

2. Armada JP vs Julien

3. Atomic Bent Chetler

4. Line Prophet 100

 

Given my size, skill level, and type of skiing what do you guys think of the skis I mentioned ? Any better suggestions ? and What size ski would be best for me ? 

 

I'm thinking Jesters for bindings or maybe the Jester Schizo because I like how you can move 3 cm either way on the ski depending on what type of skiing/conditions i might get on any given day.

 

Thanks in advance.


Edited by joeyhalen2000 - 9/4/10 at 6:39pm
post #2 of 25

IMHO, you don't want JJs unless they come out with a 195 model. I'm 6'2' and at 30+ pounds lighter than you felt I could easily overpower the 185JJs.

Also, if you ski mainly in-bounds, you may not need anything much wider than 100mm underfoot.

I'm sure you'll get some better specific advice from people here who have a lot of knowledge and experience with a wider range of skis.

post #3 of 25
Thread Starter 

Yeah I'm thinking I won't end up with the JJ's but I wanted to hear what some experts think before I make the final decision.  I'm really leaning towards the Prophets or Gotamas.

post #4 of 25
Thread Starter 

Anyone ?? I really need some expert advice guys.  HELP !

post #5 of 25

Hey joeyhalen, welcome to Epic.

 

Unless you know of shops that are literally giving gear away, why not wait until the season begins, and then demo a few pairs? You're right on target regarding getting squared away with a well fit pair of boots.

 

I'm about 4" shorter than you, and weigh in at just over 155, so my impressions of the skis you've listed are probably not that pertinent to you, but I've got a pair of the '09 Gotama's in 183cm and just love 'em. Though you profess to have no liking for moguls, (you'll find that they do tend to show up on the hill between where you are and where you want to go,) the Goats were a ton of fun in soft bumps, in crud, and were a blast in powder.

 

Oh yeah, be wary of using the word "expert" around here.  It often leads to interesting discussions.

 

post #6 of 25


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyhalen2000 View Post
 I'm 6'3", about 225-230 lbs., intermediate skier (Getting better though).  I will mainly be skiing Whistler/Blackcomb as my home hill and sometimes Silverstar, Sunpeaks, and Big White.  I ski pretty much in bounds 95 percent of the time....Groomers, Crud, Pow, and a bit of park for some medium jumps, no rails, no moguls.


Big guy needs burly skis IMO. If your more inbounds, a 88-99 waist should work well.

I am thinking Dynastar Legend Pro or Sultan 94.

Any ski with metal in it, 185-195 length and a 23-28M turn radius should make you happy IMO.

post #7 of 25

If you are skiing inbounds and mostly groomers, I really don't know why you would need a ski with rocker.  While some recent rockered skis do OK on groomers and whatnot, they are really designed for powder.  If you want good powder performance but good harder snow performance too, I would look at something like the pre-2010 Gotamas, Liberty Helix, or similar.  Pretty much every manufacturer makes a ski like this.  Look for something 90-100 mm in width for uncompromised powder versatility, although you could probably get by with something even more narrow.  If you are determined to get something with rocker, I would suggest the Rossignol S3 (heavy but versatile).

post #8 of 25
Thread Starter 

Well when I say I ski mostly inbounds I don't mean mostly groomers.  I just mean I'm not gonna hike up a mountain in skis to ski down it.  I actually prefer not to ski the groomers any more than I have to, but at a hill like Whistler where I will ski a lot....It's such a huge hill with such a variety of terrain to ski that inbounds can be just about anything.  I would prefer to ski nothing but pow but unfortunately mother nature would not always have it that way.  I'm interested in Rocker obviously for powder performance/days but I don't want to limit myself to a ski that excels in powder and sucks everywhere else.  Originally I was set on Gotamas but I started looking at other models because I've read a lot of mixed review on how the Gotamas perform off the powder.  I need a ski that does above average in powder but will still instill confidence when the snow is less than ideal (hard, groomed, icy, crud).  That's what led me to the Prophets.  I've read a lot of positive about there performance in less than ideal conditions.  I'm not a speed demon by any means.  I will usually cruise down groomers at medium speed looking for spots along the edge of the run to launch off of or experiment with switch etc....More playful than speed demon.

 

Last year that I skied I rode a set that was completely, completely wrong for me.  I rode 176 Volkl Dogans all over the hill in every condition and handled those okay so no matter what I decided on I'm sure it will be much better than what I rode last time.

 

I looked a bit at the Rossi S3 and trying to figure out why this would be more ideal than the Prophets ?

post #9 of 25

My opinion you are trying to compare two apples (JJ, and Bent Chetler) to two oranges (Prophet and Gotama). Ideally one of each would be the way to go. I personally am a fan of the Prophet. I think it's a good solid all around ski. And a great daily driver that can perform well in the powder, though it wouldn't be my first choice for pow. JJ and Bentchetler are both solid funshape pow ski's. Both very similar, and both solid popular ski's. If you chose either one of them I would snatch them now. As they both sold fast last year.

 

post #10 of 25

Rocker is a big plus. Period. Especially in deeper soft snow. In 2010, I fail to see why anyone looking for an "all mountain" ski would buy a ski not incorporating rocker. Or under 105 or so underfoot for that matter.

 

As noted above, even inbounds, Whistler-Blackcomb has a huge range of terrain and snow conditions on any given day. I know I sound like a broken record, but I just can not imagine optimizing for the bad day/elevation crummy groomer end of the spectrum. Especially since there is generally so much good skiing there.

 

I'd treat the S3 suggestion or a current Gotama as an absolute minimum baseline. But would tend toward the new ObSethed or SFB zone (at least from the major brands) for "all mountain" choices. Lots of love for the S7 as well...  Maybe even the Bent Chetler or Hell Bent side of things if you think you'll favor the switch powder end of things.

 

Any good modern binding will likely play well. I'd personally do a Jester or STH 14 because of good prior experience. But there's nothing magic about that.

post #11 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by spindrift View Post

Rocker is a big plus. Period. Especially in deeper soft snow. In 2010, I fail to see why anyone looking for an "all mountain" ski would buy a ski not incorporating rocker. Or under 105 or so underfoot for that matter.

 

As noted above, even inbounds, Whistler-Blackcomb has a huge range of terrain and snow conditions on any given day. I know I sound like a broken record, but I just can not imagine optimizing for the bad day/elevation crummy groomer end of the spectrum. Especially since there is generally so much good skiing there.

 

I'd treat the S3 suggestion or a current Gotama as an absolute minimum baseline. But would tend toward the new ObSethed or SFB zone (at least from the major brands) for "all mountain" choices. Lots of love for the S7 as well...  Maybe even the Bent Chetler or Hell Bent side of things if you think you'll favor the switch powder end of things.

 

Any good modern binding will likely play well. I'd personally do a Jester or STH 14 because of good prior experience. But there's nothing magic about that.


Agreed.   OP...you might look at the new line of ON3P's.  They excel in these conditions.
 

post #12 of 25

My two cents: I'm a bit shorter and lighter than you. I skied the 186 gotama a ton last year and loved it. It is a very fun ski. Anywhere from 6 inches to 3 feet of fresh snow was a blast. I give it two thumbs up. That said, the fact that it is basically a fully rockered ski means it does leave something to be desired on the groomers. I don't care because I never ski it there, but you might want to. Bear in mind, the gotama was redesigned just prior to last season. The older 183 that bazzer is referring to was a VERY different ski with a cult following as one of the most versatile all mountain killers available. The new gotama is not that ski. It is much less versatile. I have a theory that this may be the cause of a lot of the bad reviews out there. But what the hell do I know?

post #13 of 25
Thread Starter 

First and foremost thanks to everyone that's replied so far for trying to help me out.

 

I looked at a few skis suggested and I keep going back to the Prophets.

 

For the 2011 Obsethed....Looks like it will obviously be a wicked powder ski, but for a big guy like me I think it might be too soft, and it has sooo much rocker in this years model.  Probably not the best ski for the rest of the mountain I'm thinking.  The 117 waist scares me a bit.  This years ski will be my first fat ski so 100 or 105 for the Gotama already had me kinda worried how it's gonna feel and how I'm gonna handle them ??

 

I looked at the SFB's as well.  Looks like something I'd be more interested in than the Obsethed but the largest length it comes in is 182 and correct me if I'm wrong but that doesn't seem long enough to support 6 feet 3 inches and 230 pounds of me ?

 

So I'm really leaning towards the prophets now but still not ready to committ.  Is the largest Prophet (186) going to be long enough for me ? Stiff enough ? The Gotama comes in 194 but I imagine it rides shorter than that given the rocker ? Should I be looking more to the Gotama for the extra length ? or is the 186 probably all I need ?

post #14 of 25


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyhalen2000 View Post


 

So I'm really leaning towards the prophets now but still not ready to committ.  Is the largest Prophet (186) going to be long enough for me ? Stiff enough ? The Gotama comes in 194 but I imagine it rides shorter than that given the rocker ? Should I be looking more to the Gotama for the extra length ? or is the 186 probably all I need ?


The Gotama is better in powder than the P-100 but the Prophet is equal or better in all other conditions. The Prophet is especially more stable in crud and mixed conditions. Our shop is in Tahoe so we have a wide variety of snow conditions and while some of our customers are great skiers, others are just average Joes. The Prophet was universally appreciated off of demos while the Gotama was hit or miss. Some skiers liked it but at least half didn't care for it at all. The P-100 would be a no brainer for you while the Gotama is a maybe. You might like it but you might not. The Prophet in 186 is plenty of ski for you.

 

SJ

post #15 of 25
Thread Starter 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraJim View Post


 


The Gotama is better in powder than the P-100 but the Prophet is equal or better in all other conditions. The Prophet is especially more stable in crud and mixed conditions. Our shop is in Tahoe so we have a wide variety of snow conditions and while some of our customers are great skiers, others are just average Joes. The Prophet was universally appreciated off of demos while the Gotama was hit or miss. Some skiers liked it but at least half didn't care for it at all. The P-100 would be a no brainer for you while the Gotama is a maybe. You might like it but you might not. The Prophet in 186 is plenty of ski for you.

 

SJ

Thanks Jim I'm thinking you're right and I should go Prophet 100.  I'm kinda looking at the 115 too.  What do you think of that one ? I'm not an expert....Do you think it would be too much for me ? Or better to help me progress ?
 

post #16 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyhalen2000 View Post


 

Thanks Jim I'm thinking you're right and I should go Prophet 100.  I'm kinda looking at the 115 too.  What do you think of that one ? I'm not an expert....Do you think it would be too much for me ? Or better to help me progress ?
 

I demo's the 115 last year for half a day on a pow day. It felt like a dead lifeless plank. If you're looking in the 115 range, there are a lot better ski's to be had
 

post #17 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyhalen2000 View Post


 

Thanks Jim I'm thinking you're right and I should go Prophet 100.  I'm kinda looking at the 115 too.  What do you think of that one ? I'm not an expert....Do you think it would be too much for me ? Or better to help me progress ?
 


Help you progress at what?

 

Certainly the 115 would help you progress at powder skiing but would realistically hold you back everywhere else. OTH, if you want a single rise ski that wide for everyday use......there ya go.

 

SJ

post #18 of 25
Thread Starter 



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraJim View Post




Help you progress at what?

 

Certainly the 115 would help you progress at powder skiing but would realistically hold you back everywhere else. OTH, if you want a single rise ski that wide for everyday use......there ya go.

 

SJ



Progress my skiing in general I guess.  A lot of this stuff is probably just common sense to a lot of you guys, but like I said I am no ski expert.  It's just a sport I picked up a few years ago so I am definitely a work in progress.

 

I've heard that choosing a ski that's not suitable for yourself can slow down your progression.  That's what I was thinking.  I was just unsure whether a 115 waisted ski would be too fat for my first fat ski.  It looks pretty intimidating !

post #19 of 25

Welcome.

 

First off, I can't really comment on any of those skis because I've never skied any of them, or really wanted to.  I'm surprised the S7 isn't on your list.

 

But the one thing I do want to comment on is your binding choice.  I think there are better choices out there than the Marker Schizo.  IMO it's a waste of time, and just something more to break, especially since you're a pretty big guy.  Jesters, Pivot/FKS, MOJO 15s are much better choices and will be much more durable.  Don't fall for the hype.  I don't think I've ever felt that I needed the ability to move my bindings around. 

 

For reference I'm 32, 5'11"/195lbs, grew up skiing Sun Peaks, and now I ski Kicking Horse.

post #20 of 25
Thread Starter 



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caucasian Asian View Post

Welcome.

 

First off, I can't really comment on any of those skis because I've never skied any of them, or really wanted to.  I'm surprised the S7 isn't on your list.

 

But the one thing I do want to comment on is your binding choice.  I think there are better choices out there than the Marker Schizo.  IMO it's a waste of time, and just something more to break, especially since you're a pretty big guy.  Jesters, Pivot/FKS, MOJO 15s are much better choices and will be much more durable.  Don't fall for the hype.  I don't think I've ever felt that I needed the ability to move my bindings around. 

 

For reference I'm 32, 5'11"/195lbs, grew up skiing Sun Peaks, and now I ski Kicking Horse.


Good to hear from some other BC folk. 

 

I don't have the S7 as a condsideration just because I'm hearing that it's really not going to perform the way I want in non-powder conditions.  I'm not going to have a chance to demo anything before i buy so I only have research to go by.  I'm pretty sure I'll be picking up a pair of the P100's.  Seems like they will be stiff enough, and ride anything the hill throws at me above average.  I'll expand my quiver over the next couple seasons but I think for an all around ski  for this season I'm sold on the P 100.  Maybe at the end of the season when the prices are much better I'll look for a deal on a strictly powder ski.

 

So you like the Jester but not the Jester Schizo ?  I probably don't NEED to move my bindings around either, but....I like the idea of being able to experiment on the fly.  More just a luxury thing.
 

post #21 of 25

Maybe the S3 would be a better consideration than the S7.  I thought about picking up a pair to mount with touring bindings.

 

The reason I don't like the idea of the Schizo is it's a gimmick.  Bells and whistles for people to read about and get sold on.  The more stuff you put on a binding, the more stuff that can go wrong.

post #22 of 25

The better rockered 105 to 115 designs are, IMO, the new "80". They reflect modern design & modern skiing. Despite some of the local discussion, they are unlikely to slow down your "progress" someplace like Whistler. Even lapping Jersey Cream while waiting for the alpine to open - a 110 or fatter rockered ski will keep a smile on your face more than an older design.- at least in my opinion.

 

If your focus is technical groomer skiing - ignore me and stay away from this class of ski.  But if you aspire, as you indicate,  to ski the bowls, chutes, glacier, trees, creamy snow covered groomers, etc with regularity - then something like this year's ObSethed is probably the mid-point of what will be considered "standard" for good - or even decent - days in places like WB. Skis like the S3, Kung Fujas or Gotama the narrower end of the spectrum. The S7 is well liked by more people than may be apparent here. Praxis & ON3P have contenders as well... There are many good options at this point.

 

A few final observations...

 

It may or may not be the right choice, but the '11 ObSethed will not be too soft. Folks who can actually "outski" an ObSethed, or Hell Bent for that matter, are few and far between - regardless of weight.

 

The new Gotama is a surprisingly good all mountain ski. However, being a bit of a contrarian - I was impressed with how it skied groomers and a bit disappointed at how it handled in powder compared with my "real" powder skis. It only feels weak on groomers if you let it get flat & get all squirrely (with no tail to lean on to boot). Keep it on edge & centered on groomers & it is solid, if a bit demanding. 

 

I would not call the P100 or the old Gotama bad skis, but especially at someplace like WB, the newer skis bring a hell of a lot to the party. If the option is available to you, a modern fatter rockered ski will deliver more for longer.

 

Schizos are reasonably solid and good for one thing. If you are not sure where you want to be mounted (say on a ski with a big or disputed range), they let you test out different mount points with no muss or fuss. But once you find a preferred point on a good ski --- the need to move them is nil IMO...

 

Good luck sorting through some rather different points of view!

post #23 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caucasian Asian View Post

Maybe the S3 would be a better consideration than the S7.  I thought about picking up a pair to mount with touring bindings.

 

The reason I don't like the idea of the Schizo is it's a gimmick.  Bells and whistles for people to read about and get sold on.  The more stuff you put on a binding, the more stuff that can go wrong.



HIJACK-SORRY.   Want to ski Kicking Horse this year can I contact you for snow conditions etc. (buy S7's this week) ?

post #24 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete No. Idaho View Post





HIJACK-SORRY.   Want to ski Kicking Horse this year can I contact you for snow conditions etc. (buy S7's this week) ?


Sure.  But only if you buy me S7s.

post #25 of 25

I want to focus for a sec on some things you've said here.

 

 

Quote:
Progress my skiing in general I guess..............

 

Other than powder, in what area do you think you'd progress better on a 115mm ski w/tip rise than on a 100mm ski without rise?

 

 

Quote:

 

I've heard that choosing a ski that's not suitable for yourself can slow down your progression.

 

Generally, this is true. I sell skis for a living. I own and love fat skis in general and appreciate rockered skis. I skied about 15 or so different variations of rocker last year, owned an S7, and will be buying another rockered ski this year. However, I don't generally sell 115mm skis in general as everyday choices and rockered variations even less so. My customers who demo that type of ski generally don't buy one as their only ski and I wouldn't either.

 

 

Quote:
I was just unsure whether a 115 waisted ski would be too fat for my first fat ski.  It looks pretty intimidating !

 

If a 115 is going to be your "fat" ski (meaning you also have something else to go with it) .....then hayull no......it's not too wide at all. OTH, if it will be your only ski, I'd think twice or thrice about that investment. FWIW....I owned two 115mm skis last year, one rockered, one not. I have sold both of them off and will be buying something else (one ski) to replace those two. However, I'll also be buying something in the 94-100mm range that is basically going to live in my car all the time. The ski that is always in the car so that I can dart out of the shop on any given day/moment and get in a few runs is my definition of the daily driver. While such a thing might work for you, I would not choose a 115 to fill that role and certainly not as my only ski.

 

SJ

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