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Cedric's video for MA/Critique

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 
Same run's in Mineral basin Snowbird

Video Clip

Fixed. Sorry
post #2 of 21
Erm, David, the link doesn't seem to be working (others off websurd do). Perhaps you could check.

Thanks for posting this!
post #3 of 21
Thread Starter 
That'll teach me to post stuff while testing it locally..

Fixed..

dc
post #4 of 21
Again I am not an instructor and have never skied in snow like that but it is usual to park and ride through those conditions?
post #5 of 21
I might be wrong, but I wouldn't even come close to calling that a 'park and ride.' They're nice and relaxed medium radius turns. When I first watched the videos of all the different skiers, Cedric (at least I now know its Cedric) was the one who seemed to use the most appropriate turn radius for the conditions.

Honestly, I'm not even sure what an instructor calls a park and ride anymore. From my understanding, its a negative term used to describe someone who just leans on one set of edges and doesn't "flow" through the turn into the next. In other words, a really static med-long radius turn.

Cedric doesn't look static at all IMO. In fact, after watching it twice, I can't find much wrong with it period. He looks nice and balanced, almost never gets back, and nicely flows from one turn to the next. The only nitpick I can make is that there are a few big arm swings (and I hate saying that because I'm a much worse offender when it comes to gross arm movements [img]smile.gif[/img]
post #6 of 21
Like I said I am no expert.



I think my connection was messed up because now the video looks like he flows better.

I'll stay out of video critiques from now on and leave it to the instructors.

[ February 19, 2004, 09:46 AM: Message edited by: Scalce ]
post #7 of 21
Hey Cedric -with that kind of snow to ski in who cares about technique!? But since you asked, I agree with matter that those are nice turns. Except maybe for the third turn from the end, for which I now dub thee "George of the Powder" - as in watch out for that tree. All jealous jesting aside, the following comments are labelled "in my humble opinion" since I'd be hard pressed to ski any better.

Not that it (cough) "matter"s, "park and ride" is when smooth continuous movement is halted. Think about things like edge angle and the lateral distance of the center of mass from being vertical over the skis. Ideally, except for extremely brief moments when a 180 degree direction change occurs (e.g. the change from increasing edge angles to decreasing edge angles), these measurements should be changing all the time and changing at a steady (hey physicsman - would logarithmic be ok too?) rate. There are other factors too (e.g. amount of counter, height of one shoulder relative to the other).

A gross park and ride would be a traverse in between turns. But holding the same edge angle and riding an arc is what most people think of as park and ride. Usually, the skis are carving because most people don't "ride" a skidded turn. Because of the carving sensation, it's easy to just hang on and enjoy. In powder, the floating sensation also tempts one to "ride".

You can see a tiny bit of park and ride in a couple of spots. For example, in the fourth turn, there's a spot where it looks like Cedric is adjusting his line down the slope, by holding the turn as opposed to adjusting the shape of the turn. At 10 seconds, there's another "ride". You can see elements of this in other turns, but it's just being REAL picky.

Did I say these were nice turns?

From 27- 38 seconds, the left turns look interesting to me. What caught my attention was the noticeable "landing points" in both left and right turns. On the left turns at 26, 30 and 33 seconds, the first half of the turn (above the fall line) could be rounded more. But the second and third left turn have great exits. On the right turns there is more roundness above the fall line, but after the fall line there is a distinct landing and tiny bit of hesitation to recover. Which I think is causing the flatness of the left turn entries. As a fine tune change, I'd suggest keeping the toes pointing in the fall line just a bit longer on the right turns. The end goal is to get the skis to start decreasing edge angle directly after passing through the fall line to avoid the sharp "landing" effect.

BTW - these are nice turns. These demonstrate good command of 3 dimensiional skiing: manuevering the skis within the depth of the snow. When the snow is deep enough and you're doing this right, there should be a landing and a rebound in the turns.

At 11 seconds, there's a good example of a banked right turn. This is also contributing to the "landing" effect. In general we're going to be more upright in powder than on groomed snow, so we should expect less angulation. At 2 seconds on a left turn, you can see more angulation. In general, most of the left turns have more angulation than the right turns. The exception is at 18-24 seconds. Although at first glance these turns looked a little "swishy" in comparison to the rest of the turns, they look good to me. At 11 seconds you can see that the turn is initiated more by moving the upper body into the new turn. At 20 seconds you can see a head tilt to start the turn, but the next turn after that has great lower body movement.

Which reminds me to tell you that these are nice turns.

One final thing I'd like to see is a little bit more matching of the shoulders to the pitch of the slope. At 9 seconds, the uphill shoulder is noticeably lower than the downhill shoulder. During 17-25 seconds, the shoulders are more aligned with the pitch of the slope. Two great exercises to play with for exploring this concept are:
1) Walking in boots across a slope with steep or moderate pitch
2) Skiing without poles and holding bamboo on your shoulders behind your neck and trying to keep the boo level to the slope pitch.

In closing, I'd like to mention just one thing:

NICE TURNS!
post #8 of 21
Quote:
Originally posted by therusty:
[QB]Not that it (cough) "matter"s, "park and ride" is when smooth continuous movement is halted. Think about things like edge angle and the lateral distance of the center of mass from being vertical over the skis.

[snip]

From 27- 38 seconds, the left turns look interesting to me. What caught my attention was the noticeable "landing points" in both left and right turns. The end goal is to get the skis to start decreasing edge angle directly after passing through the fall line to avoid the sharp "landing" effect.

[QB]
I'm going to be really nit-picky, so please take this as suggesting refinements, not grand changes of style. All in all, a good job. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

First, I would add to the therusty's first set of comments that BOTH the ski's should be skied under the center of mass and through neutral.

In the turns mentioned in the second comments, it looks to me like neutral is established only when Cedric is airborne, so he's got to do something funky to get it all sorted out. Looking closely, it looks like he is jumping from one ski to the other... there is further evidence of this sort of weight transfer at the very end of the clip, where during the short radius turns, it appears that the ski's exhibit a very very small wedge -- indicative of stepping from one ski onto the next, as opposed to skiing them BOTH under the body through neutral and into the next turn.

Don't get me wrong, these are nice turns! I'm just suggesting a little refinement when going through the neutral position would make the turns smoother and less jumpy.

It would also become easier to keep forward on the ski. At 19-20 seconds when passing the camera, there appears to be some real forceful pushing forwards of the hands needed to stay out of the back seat. This is consistent with the poles dragging a little too far back at some points.

Cheers! I hope this is helpful. Watching these videos really makes me want to ski!!!
post #9 of 21
I skied with Cedric at the Canyons and it only took a few turns to realize that Cedric is an excellent skier with lots of off-piste experience. Cedric ended up in the top ESA groups and even there he was one of the strongest skiers (according to the videos I saw). The man is fast and powers through everything. Honestly, I was very impressed.

Thus I hesitate to make any comments on the video, but here it goes:

There is no question that the video shows some great skiing Cedric, yet you may want to explore one specific area - turn initiation. I don't know how you initiate turns on groomed, but in the video (mostly the second run) many turns are initiated by an up-movement and quick redirection of the skis into the new turn. I can hardly argue with that since I tend to do the same in deeper and more difficult snow. But you are good enough and confident enough to use more patience at the top of the turn. In other words you should experiment with tipping the skis and letting the snow and terrain dictate the turn. I am only suggesting a different approach. Since you ski with considerable speed and power, I believe that this approach would work well for you.
post #10 of 21
To echo rusty, Nice Turns!!

I love the variable line, the flow, the relaxed rhythem. Looks to me like your deciding where you want to go and going there with a smile.

Cheers, Wade
post #11 of 21
I haven't yet watched the vids, but I skied with Cedric at JH, and I think he's a strong, confident and powerful skier. I just wanted to say that before I look at the vids to compare them to everyone's observations.

Not only that, he's the funniest Romanian Londoner I've ever met!
[img]graemlins/evilgrin.gif[/img]

now to watch the vids
post #12 of 21
Cedric is indeed a strong skier and flows well enough to really enjoy some powder like that. Very nice strong skiing.

If I have something to comment on it would be right in line with weems excellent posts in "don't lean on the fronts".

I see Cedric dropping the inside hip back instead of up and forward. This is causing him to A frame in the turn then he requires a big movement to get the next turn going. The result is a slight traverse a slight sequential movement and the turns not being shaped very well in the top third of the turn.

As weems says, simple move but almost nobody does it.

Wish I had gotten to ski with you Cedric. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ February 19, 2004, 04:45 PM: Message edited by: Pierre ]
post #13 of 21
the only thing I see is an occasional excessive lift of the left shoulder and arm when starting the right-hand turn... a bit rushed, needs a bit of patience.

that's all my dull MA eye can see.

great skiing, Cedric!
post #14 of 21
Thanks to everyone for the positive feedback and the very helfpul comments.

(just to clarify, that DOES include Scalce. Without his initial comments, I would not have found out what 'park and ride' actually means).

I skied better at the Academy and Gathering than I thought I would. Something clicked from the very first day of that trip, skiing with Inspector Gadget, Lodro, stmbtres, TomB, sheskis and several others at the Canyons. Perhaps I went up one notch simply due to being in the company of excellent skiers.

So I'll have some trouble playing with small changes to my skiing - I was expecting to have to solve some big issues! (oh well, there's more to change in my groomed run carves).

Special thanks to Gonzo - first for his vote of trust prior to seeing the videos, second for supplying me with a new signature
post #15 of 21
I wish I had someone to film me.

You guys would have a field day but I bet I would learn a ton.

Have you guys ever noticed that sometimes when skiing in front of someone like an instructor you have better form and ski really clean but then as soon as you go on your own after lunch you get lazy and sloppy again?

I wonder if following the instructor's line and watching his or her form just makes you ski better in general because you are not making decisions like picking a line or have surprise conditions pop up on you.
post #16 of 21
Quote:
Originally posted by Scalce:

Have you guys ever noticed that sometimes when skiing in front of someone like an instructor you have better form and ski really clean but then as soon as you go on your own after lunch you get lazy and sloppy again?
I have the opposite problem, Scalce. My tendency, when I need to "perform" in front of scrutinizing eyes, is to get tight. I unconsciously think too much mechanics and end up compromising on fluidity. Many have commented that sometimes I seem to ramp down a notch or two while in front of a watchful eyes. I concur, though I am getting better at "performing" by getting myself in the right frame of mind.
post #17 of 21
Scalce,

Sometimes I feel guilty when I teach a lesson and most of it is just follow me. But it works often and it works well. We have a mantra that less is more. Many things are easier to do when you just do it. It seems so easy that it's hard to believe we get paid for this.

That said, there is an art to "leading". It is actually fairly difficult to pick a line to get the right snow, set turn shape and speed to get the desired impact on the follower as well as keeping an eye out to make sure the follower is still with you and doing the intended moves. It's hard to demo good skiing when you are sneaking peaks behind you. It's hard to set the right pace and stopping points for resets and task changes.

As effective as follow the leader is during a lesson, the one drawback is that without a conscious understanding of what was going on, the student is unable to "generate" the turn shapes and speed or read the snow on their own.

In most cases, we're trying to ingrain the desired movements at an unconscious level. This is hard to do in a typical "short" lesson. If you get the "I can't do that anymore" feeling after a lesson, it's probably because you are trying to do more than when you were in the lesson and had "help". Try an easier slope to practice the moves on.

Your observations are spot on.
post #18 of 21
Hi Cedric,
Nice turns!...and great advice/tips(for anyone...)
My $.01: Skiing some pre-determined powder lines in the fall-line, constantly making turns, does wonders for me with any of the lower and/or upper body-related issues.
Relaxing ankles, knees.....or honing the upper body's subtle balancing act....etc.

[img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]
Steve

[ February 21, 2004, 07:06 PM: Message edited by: HaveSkisWillClimb ]
post #19 of 21
Very strong, very good skiing. My guess is that you are exhausted after a few runs. You might try to retract the skis a little more rather than unweighting them. I see a lot of up and down which makes me very tired. Skiing lots of powder, especially this type of reasonably deep stuff makes me want to bring my skis up to me in a retraction mode, rather then bring my whole body up and down. I find it less tiring. But, I wasn't there and that might have been required in this type of snow.

This qualifies as "deep snow" to me. The definition of deep snow is "if you don't keep your mouth shut, you drown!"

Bob
post #20 of 21
Cedric,

After skiing with you for three days at the Gathering. I can't see anything that I could add to the comments here. You are a powerful, fluid and effortless skier.

WVskier,

Don't let the tape fool you Cedric goes first Tram to last lift everyday all day. He is strong in the afternoon as in the morning. Me on the other hand. :

Ed
post #21 of 21
Quote:
Originally posted by Powdigger:
Don't let the tape fool you Cedric goes first Tram to last lift everyday all day. He is strong in the afternoon as in the morning.
Perhaps but to do that I gotta sweat leg squats with a 200+ pounds barbell in the gym before my skiing holidays! Thanks Powdigger for the praise [img]smile.gif[/img] but I'll take any advice that makes my skiing easier - so thanks to WVskier, too.

On the second day at JH, when I was finding things particularly difficult, Si noticed I was doing a lot of the up-down movement on bumps, and reminded me to retract my legs and absorb. That was well-appreciated advice, I remembered I actually knew how to do that and improved my turns and stamina right away.
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