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Where's your butt? - Page 3

post #61 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post




Angulation is an interesting thing. It does not always mean a sideways bend at the hip. Knee angulation for instance does not mean that the leg would be bending sideways at the knee. This is the reason that "counter" in combination with a braking at the waist is also called angulation. But it is not sideways bending at the hip. So it looks like the skier is angulating more after apex when he in fact is countering. Right?

 

So, why do we incline at the top of the turn? We need to create edge angles in order to turn. And we need to lower our CoM and project our body inside the turn to resist turn forces as they kick in. Its a living on the edge thing. As we project ourselves inside the turn we literally fall because there are not enough turn forses built up jet.
 





Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post





Your butt is stacked over your outside foot at all times?


Is there a question coming or are you trolling?!?

post #62 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnpenxa View Post



 

Yup (on piste)  Off piste it's stack over both feet ;-)

 

Wheather I'm walking OR Skiing, it is "stacked" over my feet...   meaning,  I maintain an alignement where I can and do pass the forces thru the bones and not muscle.
 



So you do not counter?

post #63 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post





So you do not counter?


Well to answer my question,  I see you're trolling and your bait raises question to your understanding of modern day skiing  fundamentals...  therefore I'm not biting..

 

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by johnpenxa - 9/28/10 at 9:57am
post #64 of 77


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamt View Post

 

I cannot get around the feeling that you are luring me into a trap


 

 

You're not alone.
 

post #65 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamt View Post
Originally Posted by RealityCheck View Post

That's the problem, though... Those of us who truly understand the sport understand it. Completely.  No need to over analyze. 

As you said somewhere deep inside you novel above, it's a natural movement ("...biomechanically exactly the way the foot and ankle work together....").  You guys all need to lighten up!






I claim that no-one truly understands the sport completely.  Otherwise there would be no evolution.

To claim that you truly understand the sport is analogous to saying that the sport will not evolve anymore.


Jamt,

 

One who truly understands the sport completely should be a person who is evolving the sport.

 

RC,

How does one come to truly understand the sport completely?

post #66 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnpenxa View Post


Well to answer my question,  I see you're trolling and your bait raises question to your understanding of modern day skiing  fundamentals...  therefore I'm not biting..

 



No trapps no trolling. Just simple questions. To experts it seems. So it should be easy for you to ansere. In powder you are stacking your hips over both your skis and on the gromer you are stacking your hips over your outside ski. In powder you platform over both skis while on a gromer you platform against your outside ski. So what does the butt do in the mean time? Does the butt prespective add anything to this discussion or should we focus on hips insted? And has hips and butt nothing to do with the way they are pointing in ref to where the skis are pointing? I think the original poster is looking for annother viewpoint on things.

post #67 of 77

>>To experts it seems.

I see you have a penchant for passive aggressive remarks...  or were you looking in the mirror when you wrote that?

 

>> So what does the butt do in the mean time?

While I can't speak for others,  I’ve been told that mine looks good for the ladies at all phases of the turn. 


Edited by johnpenxa - 9/29/10 at 11:40am
post #68 of 77

I'm a bit confused but I want to comment on something tdk said in the comment just before mine

"So, why do we incline at the top of the turn? We need to create edge angles in order to turn."

Um, you don't actually need edges to turn. You rotate your legs. No need for edge angles. Of course perhaps I'm being pedantic, or just plain ignorant.

post #69 of 77

 


 

Quote:

I'm a bit confused but I want to comment on something tdk said in the comment just before mine

"So, why do we incline at the top of the turn? We need to create edge angles in order to turn."

Um, you don't actually need edges to turn. You rotate your legs. No need for edge angles. Of course perhaps I'm being pedantic, or just plain ignorant.

 

 

You actually do need your edges. If you just rotate your legs and keep your skis flat you will go straight. 

post #70 of 77

Straight on your face perhaps!?  Flat is relative here. 

 

Why do we incline on a bicycle?

post #71 of 77


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnpenxa View Post

>>To experts it seems.

I see you have a penchant for passive aggressive remarks...  or were you looking in the mirror when you wrote that?

 

>> So what does the butt do in the mean time?

While I can't speak for others,  I’ve been told that mine looks good for the ladies at all phases of the turn. 


Yeah, sorry about that..... my screen was reflecting.... Anyway, good to hear about your behind. And that it does wonders for you while skiing .

post #72 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiingaround View Post

I'm a bit confused but I want to comment on something tdk said in the comment just before mine

"So, why do we incline at the top of the turn? We need to create edge angles in order to turn."

Um, you don't actually need edges to turn. You rotate your legs. No need for edge angles. Of course perhaps I'm being pedantic, or just plain ignorant.



hmmmmmm..... even if you rotate your legs you need edges to turn. Like Loki said, its still your edges that will make you turn. But there are two ways of using the edges of our skis. We can as you say rotate our legs and that in combination with a bit of tipping our skis on edge will make our skis turn. The other way is to only tip the skis on edge and let them run along their edges. The shape of the ski, wide tip and tail and narrow waist will make the ski turn in the direciton its tipped. Without rotating your legs. Without skidding. Carving.

post #73 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud heishman View Post

Straight on your face perhaps!?  Flat is relative here. 

 

Why do we incline on a bicycle?



And "how" do we incline on a bicycle?

post #74 of 77

"hmmmmmm..... even if you rotate your legs you need edges to turn. Like Loki said, its still your edges that will make you turn. But there are two ways of using the edges of our skis. We can as you say rotate our legs and that in combination with a bit of tipping our skis on edge will make our skis turn. The other way is to only tip the skis on edge and let them run along their edges. The shape of the ski, wide tip and tail and narrow waist will make the ski turn in the direciton its tipped. Without rotating your legs. Without skidding. Carving."

 

In response to TDK6, this is wrong. You do rotate your legs when carving. Try this, get in a nice big radius carve on an easy slope with some decent speed, now with the inside leg try pointing your little toe uphill, you will instantly change the radius of your turn. This is using both legs rotation movement to alter the turn. Even with the majority of your wieght on the outside ski, this slight movment on the inside ski will affect the radius of the turn. A lot of beginner carvers just plonk on an edge, sit there and let the sidecut of the ski determine the radius of the turn. This is not really skiing. Does this make sense. Another point is beginner carvers sit on the edge and don't really make any vertical movements. Your skis are constantly running away from you so your movement in the vertical plane, as in the other planes, shouldn't be static.

post #75 of 77

skiingaround... you are from switzerland homeland of some of the greatest skiing grounds in the world.... Wellcome to epic. See that you have been posting for some time I just have not really payed enough attention. Anyway, we are forced to use some generalisations when we discuss skiing at this level. Its true that you can use an rotating movement of your leg to tip your ski on edge. Its also true that tipping your ski on edge and remaining static in this position while your ski carves through the snow is something we refer to as park and ride and something we do not rank as good skiing. But at some point we do need to be able to do just that. Let the ski guide the way. Thats what I do all the time. I tip the skis and I learn how the ski reacts to tipping and speed and the snow surface. How my balancing movements affect my skis. Its a give and take thing. Me and my skis, we are like partners in crime. When I put my skis on in the morning or switch skis I need to have a few runs to get the feel of the ski. How fast does it turn and how well does it hold an edge. How much and how fast can I tip and incline. I constantly hear people say that they are the ones that are calling all the shots and the skis are just tools. Im not affraid to admit that in my case is that not so. Many times Im left at the murcy of my skis and all I can do is hope for the best. 

post #76 of 77

Nice TDK6, and I was wrong to say 'wrong'. It's sometimes hard to say what I want to say when having to write it down.

post #77 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiingaround View Post

Nice TDK6, and I was wrong to say 'wrong'. It's sometimes hard to say what I want to say when having to write it down.



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