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Climbing hips-forward?

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 

 

When out of the saddle, the hips come forward, so that the knees are within less than inches of the handlebar on the forward part of the stroke.

 

Liability, sign of muscle imbalance, or "if it works for you, great"?


Edited by comprex - 8/24/10 at 10:10am
post #2 of 14

Forward of what? 

post #3 of 14
Thread Starter 

 

The BB axis.

post #4 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by comprex View Post

 

When out of the saddle, the hips come forward, so that the knees are within less than inches of the handlebar on the forward part of the stroke.

 

Liability, sign of muscle imbalance, or "if it works for you, great"?


I think anyone who climbs out of the saddle does this. On a MTB you need to be balance between the wheels which sometimes means being slightly forward.

post #5 of 14
Thread Starter 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post


 On a MTB you need to be balance between the wheels which sometimes means being slightly forward.


That was kinda the problem (see: MTB noob).  

 

I was far enough forward to lift the back wheel off the ground on the up-stroke.

 

FWIW, I've noticed that I only really do this on bikes with relatively long (effective) TTs.   

 

55,56cm (effective) TT-> I stay on the BB

58-60cm (effective) TT-> I get way forward of the BB.

 

I just never really /noticed/ it on the road bikes, mostly because there were gobs of available traction.

post #6 of 14

I climb seated whenever I can. I will sometimes climb out of the saddle but that is usually just if its short and punchy and I want to mix things up. If the climbs are steep and loose / tech this is what I do. Inch hips forward about 3-4 inches so I am hovering over the nose of the saddle. Bend my elbows and pull my chest down near the bar.

post #7 of 14
Thread Starter 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tromano View Post

I climb seated whenever I can. I will sometimes climb out of the saddle but that is usually just if its short and punchy and I want to mix things up. If the climbs are steep and loose / tech this is what I do. Inch hips forward about 3-4 inches so I am hovering over the nose of the saddle. Bend my elbows and pull my chest down near the bar.


^ I do all this also.   

 

I just seem to be (very) averse to bending forward at the hips to get balance towards the front wheel when I /am/ out of the saddle, and seem to do most of the forward weight shift work by more flex at the ankles and knees.

 

First sign of getting creaky-old?

post #8 of 14


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by comprex View Post


 


That was kinda the problem (see: MTB noob).  

 

I was far enough forward to lift the back wheel off the ground on the up-stroke.

 

FWIW, I've noticed that I only really do this on bikes with relatively long (effective) TTs.   

 

55,56cm (effective) TT-> I stay on the BB

58-60cm (effective) TT-> I get way forward of the BB.

 

I just never really /noticed/ it on the road bikes, mostly because there were gobs of available traction.

 

yet another reason why that lower longer stem you got was something I didnt think was a good idea.

 

some things to do to correct whats happening.

 

1. Try to climb seated on loose surfaces, standing to climb is great when there is enough traction which is usually the case on pavement or packed dirt. Not so much the case on steep gravel fireroads.

 

2. If you insist on still standing on loose climbs, trying pulling up on the bars. Wider bars with bar ends can help you here.

 

3. a narrowor tire will have a longer contact patch which equals more braking/climbing traction. to narrow and it might get overwhelmed by loose ground like gravel or copoius amount of dust. IMO the sweet spot is 2.1ish. Tubeless goes a long way to not losing traction as well as it let you run the proper tire pressure with out risking pinch flats.

 

 

 

post #9 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by comprex View Post


 


^ I do all this also.   

 

I just seem to be (very) averse to bending forward at the hips to get balance towards the front wheel when I /am/ out of the saddle, and seem to do most of the forward weight shift work by more flex at the ankles and knees.

 

First sign of getting creaky-old?

 

you dont want balance towards the front wheel you want it somewhere in between the wheels if not biased alittle bit back.
 

post #10 of 14
Thread Starter 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post

you dont want balance towards the front wheel you want it somewhere in between the wheels if not biased alittle bit back.
 

 

Right, I got that; it is what actually prompted my question.   

 

I understand what you're saying about   optimal on-bike results.  

 

I've been trying to say that my body finds 3-5" forward of that balance point (FAR!) easier to work with, and I was pondering if this didn't mean too much gym time training hamstrings and not enough skate time and flutter kick time training the smaller muscles amongst the hip flexors, e.g. in the upper quadricep region.
 

I kind of half-dropped skating this summer to focus on rowing, and I think this might be a consequence.

post #11 of 14


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by comprex View Post



 

Right, I got that; it is what actually prompted my question.   

 

I understand what you're saying about   optimal on-bike results.  

 

I've been trying to say that my body finds 3-5" forward of that balance point (FAR!) easier to work with, and I was pondering if this didn't mean too much gym time training hamstrings and not enough skate time training the smaller muscles amongst the hip flexors, e.g. in the upper quadricep region.
 


how 'bout you ride a bike more to get better at it?

 

BTW you game for a raystown weekend after labor day.

post #12 of 14
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post

how 'bout you ride a bike more to get better at it?


I decided a long time ago that the bike was going to be 3rd or 4th fiddle; if I get >350 miles/month it's because it's been raining too hard to skate.

post #13 of 14

Another thing to consider is your posture on the bike. If you are climbing fairly "tall" you will experience a different effect vs. staying lower in that "attack" position (elbows flexed, hips back, torso low) and using that as your starting point for getting out of the saddle. I would suggest adopting your riding posture rather than focusing on training smaller muscles. The forces generated on a bike are far below those generated in a gym, so performance is rarely a lack of strength.

 

By lowering your center of mass along the length of the bike rather than thinking about this vertical position teetering on a balance point somewhere in relation to the BB, you can alleviate any issues with wheel slippage and having the knees too close to the bars, etc.

 

A great reference is the book, "Mastering Mountain Bike Skills" by Brian Lopes and Lee McCormack. It gives a lot of insight into body position and how it affects your riding, along with plenty of pictures.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by comprex View Post


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post

you dont want balance towards the front wheel you want it somewhere in between the wheels if not biased alittle bit back.
 

 

Right, I got that; it is what actually prompted my question.   

 

I understand what you're saying about   optimal on-bike results.  

 

I've been trying to say that my body finds 3-5" forward of that balance point (FAR!) easier to work with, and I was pondering if this didn't mean too much gym time training hamstrings and not enough skate time and flutter kick time training the smaller muscles amongst the hip flexors, e.g. in the upper quadricep region.
 

I kind of half-dropped skating this summer to focus on rowing, and I think this might be a consequence.

post #14 of 14
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RKMS View Post

 

By lowering your center of mass along the length of the bike rather than thinking about this vertical position teetering on a balance point somewhere in relation to the BB,


That sounds pretty much exactly what I do except the lowering comes from knee and ankle bend instead of hip. Only the hips are "tall", and the joint is relatively open; the ankles and knees are way, way, flexed. I really _hate_ having the hip joint closed when I'm out of the saddle. th_dunno-1[1].gif Dunno why that is.
Quote:
you can alleviate any issues with wheel slippage and having the knees too close to the bars, etc.
Quote:
 

A great reference is the book, "Mastering Mountain Bike Skills" by Brian Lopes and Lee McCormack. It gives a lot of insight into body position and how it affects your riding, along with plenty of pictures.
 


Looking for it now, thanks!
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