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shaped skis....shoulder width or together

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
i read somewhere that when skiing with shaped skis you should ski with your feet shoulder width apart...however, i see people wearing shaped skis with their feet together..i takes so much effort when i'm skiing to keep mine together...unfortunately, i haven't taken lessons in 10 years and feel stupid asking this question(and yea, i've been shaping for the last three and i'm taking lessons again next month)...so which way is correct?

thanks
post #2 of 24
A functional athletic stance is the key. I teach hip width which looks narrow in some, wider in others. Here's a way to find your width.... stand in a good athletic stance. Hands in front, looking straight ahead, feet flat on the floor, knees slightly bent, body basically aligned and comfortable. Now jump straight up in the air, it doesn't have to be high. Land on both feet with weight slightly towards the balls of the feet. This is your natural balanced stance. You'll be able to hop, move laterally, etc.. from this stance without feeling like you're losing balance. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]
post #3 of 24
The people I see with their feet together are generally wanna be park rats (we have no park at our local hill) trying to ski "pro" style. It's not very efficient, and you're not very laterally stable. Shoulder width apart is the generally accepted stance.

edit in reply to ott's post. He makes a good point. I'd say, stand as you normally would and go from there. Now of course, you're going to modulate your stance as you're skiing to accomodate varying conditions, but standing width is about how I ski.

[ November 20, 2003, 09:00 PM: Message edited by: Zacman1987 ]
post #4 of 24
Spread 'em..makes it easier..a LOT..even possible.. to get some edge angle goin' on..'cept in the deep..then give 'em some 'ol "boot lock"....
post #5 of 24
What is shoulder width or hip width? Is that the distance between my skis? I am very broad shouldered, do I need to have 26 inches from the inside of one boot to the other? Or what? The outside, the middle?

Shoulder width mean different things to different people. Unless I can show them in person, I'd never use that term.

...Ott
post #6 of 24
Quote:
Originally posted by Ott Gangl:
What is shoulder width or hip width? Is that the distance between my skis? I am very broad shouldered, do I need to have 26 inches from the inside of one boot to the other? Or what? The outside, the middle?

Shoulder width mean different things to different people. Unless I can show them in person, I'd never use that term.

...Ott
Ott, we use a simple definition: hip width = outside of feet are directly below outside of hips. Similarly, shoulder width means, outside of feet are directly below outside of deltiod.

For men with broad shoulders, the outside edges of the rib cage work better for "shoulder width".

GF
post #7 of 24
I have sometimes referred to (1)imagine hanging from a bar with your hands and whereever your feet are in width start there, then (2) comfort will play a role and (3) can both skis do what you need them to do without running into each other.
post #8 of 24
I'm not a ski instructor, but many times when working with my athletes I attempt to get them into a good "athletic" position. I used to use the term "shoulder width apart", but noticed over time that while simple sounding, this creates more confusion than it could possibly ever help overcome. Now what I do is simply ask them to stand naturally tall and relaxed. Many more times than not, this has worked for me. Think about it. When you stand tall and relaxed, most people don't stand with their feet slammed together and conversely, they don't stand with their feet exceedingly wide apart. I think what's a good stance for each individual skier is what's important. I'm like Ott. If I skied with my feet shoulder width apart, you could drive a small car between my skis.
post #9 of 24
I came here expecting a controversy. Good to see everyone talking sense.
post #10 of 24
Crossed over. Its the next step beyond.

Put your feet so close together that they touch, lean back as far as humanly possible, and wiggle down the hill. Excellent.
post #11 of 24
eyedoc,
Glad to see you've decided to take lessons. Remember to go into the lesson with a open mind. You have to want to except change.

I have taken a two day clinic where at the end of the second day, there were still people in the group with there feet glued together. They just would not open there mind to change.

Have fun and ask questions...
post #12 of 24
Neither........
Any stance purposely fixed to whatever width, for whatever reason, is probably not the most efficient width it could be.

Flexable, adaptable, allowing the feet to play.
[img]smile.gif[/img]
post #13 of 24
hi eyedoc

you raise a very good point. in the context of skiing - shaped skis are a relatively new invention. most people bought the new skis, but never took a shaped ski lesson. they do ski differently - with a wider stance.

there is also a difference between recreational skiing styles and those employed by racers and freestylers. most instructors will teach the recreational skiing style.

please also note that women and men will ski differently/have a different stance because of the way our hip sockets are formed and the angle of the femur to the knee.

your lesson should be great... a good instructor will watch you ski a run or two and know exactly what to work on. as you practice on your own, please remember that the way we ski is the culmination of a muriad of details. changing one thing will affect you skiing - but maybe NOT have a dramatic change on it.

[img]smile.gif[/img]

kiersten
post #14 of 24
Quote:
Originally posted by kieli:
please also note that women and men will ski differently/have a different stance because of the way our hip sockets are formed and the angle of the femur to the knee.

ummmm - not always... for instance I have a Q angle that from memory is less than that quoted in here as being that of an 'average' male....

Physiotherapists tell me I have narrow hips (huh what a laugh 'cause I sure have a LARGE arse!)
post #15 of 24
HIP width!!! What do your shoulders possibly have to do with how your stance on your skis is? That would make all kinds of sense if you were doing a "HANDSTAND" down the hill on your skis.

All the bootfitter/stance experts & coachs I have been around over the years check your knee alignment with your feet hip width apart. I am assuming that is where they expect your skis to be when you ski.

A-man
post #16 of 24
I am told "hipwidth" for regular skiing & "wider" for LOOOOOONG turns....

instructor ditched "shoulder width" when I pointed out that unlike him my shoulders are SMALLER than my (large) rear end...
post #17 of 24
Oh - but he is with ARc on the 'no fixed width' bit.... at one stage my stance was naturally wide... he said I was to ignore all requests to "narrow te stance" as it would adjust when it was ready (it did) .... then it got a little too narrow - again he will ask me to be aware that my stance has narrowed & point out that it is restricting the range of angulation I have available - but he resists telling me a "stance" as he believes this is NOT how to ski...
post #18 of 24
I think of it that the skis should be a few inches apart when in a nuetral stance. As the turn becomes more dynamic [ at the furtherst portion of the arc] your legs will be hip width apart without even thinking about it.

In the old old days of pencil shaped wood skis that were longer than you were tall, with screw on metal edges, the technique was to have those doubled laced boots right next to each other,the term is "wadaling." [ The "w" is pronounced like a "v".]

Once the skis became shorter and the then plastic boots had buckles, often skiers would have significant scuff marks on the insides of the outer boot shell. The fashionalbe style was to ski with your boots and skis right next to each other. Everyone wanted to ski like "Stein."

The shaped ski and GS type skis and racing technique [before shaped skis have changed all that.]

Just think we are on skis that have the turns built right into the ski itself. It is so easy to be a recreational skier, but the slopes are not getting more crowded because of more skiers.They are more crowed becasue there are less resorts. Snowboarding is a significant winter sport,the costs associated with skiing have been going up at a much faster clip than inflation, and the baby boomers are getting older and would rather play golf in a warm climate, or be catered to on a cruise ship than freeze their ass off on a chair lift.
post #19 of 24
>>> the technique was to have those doubled laced boots right next to each other,the term is "wadaling." [ The "w" is pronounced like a "v".]<<<

Wink, WEDELN was the first technique in skiing that taught turning with only involving the lower body from the hip down. The idea is that without throwing the upper body around, turns can be done much quicker.

And I can WEDEL with my feet a foot apart or any width for that matter.

Now, as to why the uphill ski was pressed against the downhill ski with long stiff straight skis. The skis were so stiff that ALL the weight had to be on the downhill ski during a turn.

Unless the uphill ski was pressed against the downhill one, advanced so that the front rode against the upturned shovel of the downhill ski and the underfoot which was slightly ahead and pressed against the downhill boot, thus locking the ski to go along for the ride, disaster surely would follow since an unweighted ski in a stance hip width apart is uncontrolled and would wander and catch edges. If you don't believe me, just try it with your present skis. In a wide stance put all your weight on the turning ski and let the other one just ride along skimming the snow and see what happens.

So skiing like Stein had nothing to do with style, though that was present, it was all about efficient turning since skiers who carried ANY weight on the inside ski in a turn could not weight the outside ski enough to put it into revers camber, from tip to underfoot. The tail didn't matter in a carve, it just scattered along.

....Ott
post #20 of 24
There's a simpler answer:

Whichever makes you ski better. There are folks with their skis shoulder width apart who stink, and those who have em locked together who are great, and vice versa.

Find your comfort zone and improve from there.
post #21 of 24
A 'functional-ahtletic stance' implies that the width of the stance has a purpose...
In previous days with much longer, longitudinally stiffer skis we needed all activity (weight,balance, edging, etc.) to the outside ski, and a narrower stance that emphasized a passive inside ski.
Now with skis that are longer when edged than when flat, and stiffer torsionally than longitudinally it benefits us to have both skis tipped the same, and with some pressure to each.
A hip-ish width stance allows us to do this easier than a narrow stance. Shoulder width may be excessive for all but those seeking great degrees of inclination and commitment to the turn (elite racers).
I also agree with the comment that the exact width will be determined by each skiers physique, personal movement patterns, and intentions on skis. Be careful stereotyping genders...I've skiied with many overedbed (bull-legged) chicks, and underedged (knock-kneed) guys...in fact I married one!
Slide-well! and Happy Turkey day to all!
momski
post #22 of 24
Quote:
Originally posted by Ott Gangl:
>>> the technique was to have those doubled laced boots right next to each other,the term is "wadaling." [ The "w" is pronounced like a "v".]<<<

And I can WEDEL with my feet a foot apart or any width for that matter.
....Ott
No you can't! Got to have 'em pinned together!!!!
post #23 of 24
What makes you say that, Atomicman? [img]graemlins/evilgrin.gif[/img] ....Ott
post #24 of 24
Atomicman - don't make it a large bet because you are gonna LOSE!
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