Does cycling alone do it ... or is more strength training req'd for skiing?

I am no expert, but an avid skier and bike rider.  IMO, since riding is not weight bearing, and skiing is to an amplified extent, because of momentum, you need to do other training.  Trail running or hiking, particularly downhill helps strengthen the muscles used for skiing. I will not run on pavement because I think it is abusive, but trail running forces me to use my legs and ankles at constantly changing angles, which improves strength and balance.

FWIW, Franz Klammer was big on downhill running for training.

unless your a pro cyclist or aspiring to be a pro cyclist you should incorporate other things into what your doing. cycling alone does weird thing to your body like dip into calcium reserves and such, it also weakens bones by itself.

I have yet to find a a work out that really does skiing by it self. I was thinking about off road rollerblading but man could imagine how hurt you get doing that!

with that said cycling is the best calorie burner with out impact there is. MTBing is by far the best tactical/skill crossover there is for skiing.

but yoga, some running, swimming would all help and mixing things up keeps you body fat low. plus 2 out of those 3 are actually fun.:)

When Russia was the real big Red Machine with extensive early testing for potential in all Olympic events, 40% (or was it 60%) of the score for skiing was leg strength and plyometrics (ability to jump fast through a series of jumps)

wanna go hard core (dvd)   http://workoutjourney.com/p90x-plyometrics

in addition, let me suggest buying a wobble board (maybe $60 plus?) !!.  A major challenge for all skiers is spending such a limited time on the slopes per year ... hard to develop the local (in the ankles and feet) prioceptive skills necessary for fast continual balance adjustments. 

Stand on the wobble board several short times per day (perhaps while doing dishes)  In the beginning you will try to maintain balance by swinging upper body around ... later movement adjustment control to the hips and slowly down through knees to the soles of the feet (yippie !!). 

good luck

It all depends on what kind of biking and what kind of skiing we are talking about of course.. But, I'd recommend some kind of stretching regiment regardless of that other off season activities we do to stay in shape for skiing.  Being flexible really prevents injuries when falling or almost falling.

cycling is a poor core workout, so you have to target the core in some form. the downhill run mentioned above is good in hiking boots and with simulated hard turns.

BushwackerinPA

I have yet to find a a work out that really does skiing by it self. I was thinking about off road rollerblading but man could imagine how hurt you get doing that!

If you train with off road rollerblading - you are my new hero.  I rollerblade (not that much * and not that well) two years later can just now do cross over turns on smooth hockey rink floor.

* I would like to do more but as you noted how hurt you get when you fall.

Cycling alone will not do it...

Absolutely; weight training...squat, dead lift as well as upper body movements…all multi-joint compound lifts done with purpose and tempo.  Go barefoot btw.  Include explosive Plyometrics to recruit and develop fast twitch fiber.

Forget bosu balls and all that sideline junk.  Forget machines.  Forget focus on “core”.  All of which are trendy popular nonsense and waste of your workout time.  Move your body in space using your body weight along with dumbbells or kettlebells.  

Remember there are 4 things we’re designed to do; Run, Stop, Jump, and Hang.  Work your body to improve all those items and your core and balance is taken care of.

Incorporate stretching and Yoga.  You’ve got a good aerobic foundation…maintain that but begin those weight activities and find your aerobic and anaerobic balance as you move into the snow season.

Finally, eat well, sleep well, love well. 

You "read" motivated in your post…get after it and enjoy the season       

Quote:

Originally Posted by woozler 

BushwackerinPA

 

I have yet to find a a work out that really does skiing by it self. I was thinking about off road rollerblading but man could imagine how hurt you get doing that!

 

If you train with off road rollerblading - you are my new hero.  I rollerblade (not that much * and not that well) two years later can just now do cross over turns on smooth hockey rink floor.

 

* I would like to do more but as you noted how hurt you get when you fall.

yeah these would hilirous to take down singletrack

This may be a "when you have a hammer, everything looks like a  nail" type of response, but I recently bought a Skier's Edge, and although I wish I had the steeper newer one instead of the older model, I would still strongly recommend it. You can do 60 turns per minute or so, and it feels 90% like skiing. It wears out my legs in the same way.

I mtn bike three days a week when it's not ski season. It helps-a lot, but as Mrs5150 correctly points out, the best excercise for skiing is........skiing.

So basically, the first five days of our season are spent in building up our ski muscles. Granted, we only live 25 miles from the local hill so this strategy might not work for most people.

I wonder how those home ski-machines work. Edit: shoulda read the above ^^^ post.

Core…arrgh  

Enough with the core already!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by davluri 

cycling is a poor core workout, so you have to target the core in some form. the downhill run mentioned above is good in hiking boots and with simulated hard turns.

The term “core”, "core workout" or “core training” as some magical target or Holy Grail for musculature improvement has been popularized primarily to disguise the hard work associated with weight bearing resistance training.

However; if moving ever increasing weight with your entire body fiber aligned and engaged, feet anchored as close to the earth as possible while it stresses and twists about your spine is how you define core training…have at it  

Note there is no core rather the deep muscle tissue throughout your body that is all intertwined, layered and connected from center to extremity.  Move your body as a unit equally pushing and pulling against the Earth’s core…the core that matters…as that resistance will take care of you head to foot.   

 Biking, (couple miles) sit ups (50-100), push ups (50-100), and some stretching (15 minutes) three times + per week from October through November  would probably be the bare minimum I would recommend.to prepare someone to ski all day long with minumal fatigue day one.

I do bikes, skateboarding, lsoccer, softball, flag football, lots of sit ups and push ups, squats with weight, curls presses, some long walks in leg weights to get used to walking in boots and having then hanging from long chairlift rides.  And, finally some stretching.

Interesting Don, I used to do a lot of crunches but don't bother anymore.  I also don't stretch.  There are schools of thought that don't advocate stretching, particularly not the kind where you hold a position very stretched, then stretch some more.

I warmup.  When I lift I use the MAX OT program which works you up gradually to the target weight (this is not pyramids but warmup and weight acclimatization.) Then all my lifting sets are maximum weight that I can do 4-6 reps with.

I do find that road biking builds great leg strength for skiing.  When all I did was lift (including lower body lifting of course) the first days of skiing always made my legs sore.  After a summer/fall of lots of cycling I get no leg soreness at all from skiing, even the first day.

Last 8 weeks of my training I add balance and plyometric exercises, including a lot of work in my ski boots on a slanted board I built.  Hop turns, balancing on one leg, etc.

I am not a very calculated fitness junkie, although I do stay fit.  I think it is best to mix it up.  Lots of different sports.  Nowdays for me it is mostly biking & 90% of that is MTB.  I used to SL waterski 100 days a year along with biking.  Those were the years that I was the most fit.  A good combination of aerobic & anerobic training.  I think MTBing is the best when it comes to biking especially if you are riding in hills & mountains.  It seems to have a built in intervals if you are willing to push it.  It also builds balance, reactions & agility on the downhills similar to skiing, it forces you to look & plan ahead.  I like to incorporate a day of cadence road biking now & then, it seems to really help my MTB endurance.

Most ski teams mix in a lot of weight training & plyometrics.  I seem to recall reading somewhere that when Hermann Maier came back from his leg injury, it was all about biking.

JF

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz 

Interesting Don, I used to do a lot of crunches but don't bother anymore.  I also don't stretch.  There are schools of thought that don't advocate stretching, particularly not the kind where you hold a position very stretched, then stretch some more.

 

I warmup.  When I lift I use the MAX OT program which works you up gradually to the target weight (this is not pyramids but warmup and weight acclimatization.) Then all my lifting sets are maximum weight that I can do 4-6 reps with.

 

I do find that road biking builds great leg strength for skiing.  When all I did was lift (including lower body lifting of course) the first days of skiing always made my legs sore.  After a summer/fall of lots of cycling I get no leg soreness at all from skiing, even the first day.

 

Last 8 weeks of my training I add balance and plyometric exercises, including a lot of work in my ski boots on a slanted board I built.  Hop turns, balancing on one leg, etc.

Hi Steve and I absolutely agree with your comment above!  I should have been more precise with the use of the term “stretch” as it is my adaptive Yoga routine which is used as my daily relaxation and decompression movement at night.  Certainly I do not hyperextend muscle tissue over extended time in the traditional use of the term “stretching”.  Sad as that traditional streching practice is a significant damaging catalyst for the body.  Insofar as warm up or “wake up” for me I practice successive plyometric movements that imitate the compound body movement I’ll be doing in my resistance training [or for that matter aerobic activity].

Oh while I also agree with road biking well into December [cross thereafter for some] is great leg conditioner for skiing…Betsy* has taught me NOTHING but NOTHING beats running for the human animal [and I hate it...a key indicator that it works for me  ]

*who is proving her point by running today in the 24 hour 13th Annual Colorado Relay.  Georgetown to Carbondale over everything nasty up and down.  She is part of a 10 woman team...a bad ass tough as nails group...who don't stretch btw  

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonDenver 

Core…arrgh  

 

Enough with the core already!!

 

 

 

 

If I could follow what you were saying, I'd probably learn something. But, most skiers don't angulate so are unaware of the part the center of your body has in stabilizing the chest and shoulders. When I do 4 different forms of crunches in Sept Oct, I am a far better skier in Nov, no question. How that fits what you are saying about the whole body, I have no idea. clarify?

I think that you could do it with cycling alone. You would need to spend a substantial ammount of time on shuttles and lift served DH / Freeride and spend only about half your time on pedally XC / road rides combined. Just my $.02.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonDenver 

Quote:

Hi Steve and I absolutely agree with your comment above!  I should have been more precise with the use of the term “stretch” as it is my adaptive Yoga routine which is used as my daily relaxation and decompression movement at night.  Certainly I do not hyperextend muscle tissue over extended time in the traditional use of the term “stretching”.  Sad as that traditional streching practice is a significant damaging catalyst for the body.  Insofar as warm up or “wake up” for me I practice successive plyometric movements that imitate the compound body movement I’ll be doing in my resistance training [or for that matter aerobic activity].

 

Oh while I also agree with road biking well into December [cross thereafter for some] is great leg conditioner for skiing…Betsy* has taught me NOTHING but NOTHING beats running for the human animal [and I hate it...a key indicator that it works for me  ]

 

*who is proving her point by running today in the 24 hour 13th Annual Colorado Relay.  Georgetown to Carbondale over everything nasty up and down.  She is part of a 10 woman team...a bad ass tough as nails group...who don't stretch btw  

 

 

Gawd I hope Betsy is right!  I've upped my mileage this summer (now averaging 18-24 miles per week in 4 runs a week) and last week while running hill repeats I kept saying to myself "moguls, moguls, moguls".  But if I could be half as in shape as Betsy is I'd be ecstatic!

I've been doing a bit of cross training with some swimming and riding 1-2 days a week as well but I agree, I feel more ready going into ski season than I ever have before with the running.  But, I really need to get into the gym for a bit of strength training but I so prefer the great outdoors that it's hard to make myself go. 

Core?  It gets a few exercises when I'm bored at home in the evening.  Same with stretching and a few pushups, dips etc.  I love the feeling of stretching but absolutely don't do it before a run. 
 

I put ~3,500 miles a year on my road bike, and I agree that it's not enough to get your legs in shape for ski season.  The past few years, I've transitioned to hiking mode as Fall approaches (read:  the colder air in the mountains is killing off the bugs!), and I find that doing that really helped my skiing stamina.

In skiing, strength and balance amplify each other.  An excellent tool for ski-specific balance (and technique) training in the off-season is the harb carver shown below.  there are plenty of threads that describe it if you're interested.  [photo "borrowed" from rallyskier's thread of last December.]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharpedges 

In skiing, strength and balance amplify each other.  An excellent tool for ski-specific balance (and technique) training in the off-season is the harb carver shown below.  there are plenty of threads that describe it if you're interested.  [photo "borrowed" from rallyskier's thread of last December.]

 

How do you pedal a bike with those on your feet?

Hmmmm...  Though I agree with the workouts Don Denver has suggested, I'm going to have to disagree on one point. And yes, Don, I'm going to talk about the CORE!

Since the core is the transmission in skiing (the torso is the engine, the legs and feet are the shocks and wheels), developing it is essential! Absolute control of the core offers more options while skiing difficult conditions and terrain. For example- if you are skiing bumps aggressively, what muscle groups control the rate that you retract your legs/feet? Oh ya... it's the core!

So many times I hear skiers complain about their backs being sore or stiff- you want to know why? Because their core/abs are not developed adequately! By co-constricting the abs, it takes huge loads off the back. But without the strength to do so, all the shock and load has to be absorded in the spine and back muscles, causing excessive strain. And if this strengthening is done properly, the co-contraction can be acheived with minimal tightening of the hip joints.

So- to the OP's question- since skiing is a whole body activity, then no, biking alone will not completely prepare you for skiing. But it is a greatly beneficial cross training sport, as is inline skating, trail running, and serious lifting! If you doubt how important heavy metal time is, then go watch video's on youtube of some of the USST guys and gals working out. You think they'd be spending so much time doing that if it had little or no value?

And as mentioned in previous posts, don't forget the plyometrics! They not only develop quickness, but also dynamic balance and power! The Skiers Edge does allow certain movement patterns to be developed, though it also has its limitations.

Great topic for this time of summer, as we have less than 2 months before the first lifts begin turning!

Quote:

Originally Posted by crgildart 

How do you pedal a bike with those on your feet?

Carver/bike biathlon could actually be kind of fun in a sick way.

Since the op was asking about biking, basically if you're willing to do things like figure eights in your driveway and slalom hills, you could get ready solely on a road bike, though you should still expect some soreness the first few days out on skis. 

A heavy emphasis on strength training will probably hurt you in terms of prep, though it would be better than nothing. 

Biking, with a conscious decision to work in things like pump track work as well as driveway 8s, etc., plus also a little supplementation with something like Carvers or inline skates, would be awesome prep.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr5150 

I wonder how those home ski-machines work. Edit: shoulda read the above ^^^ post.

I have a Skier's Edge III that I bought used not long ago (month or so). Edit: I started a thread about it in Ski Gear Discussion.

Here is my regiment if anyone is interested,

+Off trail running

+Mountain biking, I mostly stand the entire time, sitting only to get a drink, try it.

+Roller blade a couple of times to get some turns in and get your skating legs in shape for any skating you may have to do on your ski's (don't blow this off, you can blow your legs out skating across the resort just trying to get to another lift). 

+Weight training, I only go once maybe twice a week and work

   *Squats (or a machine that is similar.  

   *Leg extensions,  

   *Spend time on those funny looking machines and open and close your legs, work both ways

   *Calve raises

   *hold two weights in your hands and get into a tuck position for a solid 45 seconds, do 3 sets.

   *Work your core,  abs, (hit every machine and do some leg lifts, until you find out what you like),   Lower back, and Sides

    *arms,  tri extensions are great and will help you with your skating, Dips are great also.

      Find a cable machine that you can simulate a poll plant and push (skate).

And finally, anything else that you find helpful. 

I usually spend 2 hours in the gym once a week and really focus on the running and biking the other days (2 days on one off, or 3 days on one off))  and blade once a week.  

If you are planning a 4 day trip you will want to do a couple of weeks where you are running and biking 4 days in a row, just to get endurance.  

The week prior to going I keep up the the running and biking until about 3 days prior to skiing.       It's also important to start your workouts at least a month prior to going if you want to make the best of it,    But anything is better than nothing and I am sure there are better programs out there, but this works for me (I also ski super hard and don't stop for lunch or anything when I am out).    But Some times I don't do any training and pay for it.....

Several years ago I went BC hiking and skiing and wasn't in the best shape and blew my ACL out, it was 100% due to exhaustion, live and learn I say..

.   

 Thank you

no biking won't get it done

Lift ,sprint,jump hard and fast.

As far as core ,its all about the spine and pelvis working as one unit. Which is why crunches et al are not what you should be doing  .

Front squats ,overhead squats,cleans,kipping pull ups,Turkish get ups,the list goes on.

Deadlifts,snatch,box jumps.

Biking has a short range of motion,no core activation,and no eccentric movement (which is absolutly critical to skiing)

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdiddy 

 

Here is my regiment if anyone is interested,

 

+Off trail running

+Mountain biking, I mostly stand the entire time, sitting only to get a drink, try it.

+Roller blade a couple of times to get some turns in and get your skating legs in shape for any skating you may have to do on your ski's (don't blow this off, you can blow your legs out skating across the resort just trying to get to another lift). 

+Weight training, I only go once maybe twice a week and work

   *Squats (or a machine that is similar.  

   *Leg extensions,  

   *Spend time on those funny looking machines and open and close your legs, work both ways

   *Calve raises

   *hold two weights in your hands and get into a tuck position for a solid 45 seconds, do 3 sets.

   *Work your core,  abs, (hit every machine and do some leg lifts, until you find out what you like),   Lower back, and Sides

    *arms,  tri extensions are great and will help you with your skating, Dips are great also.

      Find a cable machine that you can simulate a poll plant and push (skate).

 

And finally, anything else that you find helpful. 

I usually spend 2 hours in the gym once a week and really focus on the running and biking the other days (2 days on one off, or 3 days on one off))  and blade once a week.  

If you are planning a 4 day trip you will want to do a couple of weeks where you are running and biking 4 days in a row, just to get endurance.  

The week prior to going I keep up the the running and biking until about 3 days prior to skiing.       It's also important to start your workouts at least a month prior to going if you want to make the best of it,    But anything is better than nothing and I am sure there are better programs out there, but this works for me (I also ski super hard and don't stop for lunch or anything when I am out).    But Some times I don't do any training and pay for it.....

Several years ago I went BC hiking and skiing and wasn't in the best shape and blew my ACL out, it was 100% due to exhaustion, live and learn I say..

so how does standing the entire time get you more inshape than sitting more? is it faster? do you burn more calories? do you keep your heart rate up higher? 

or its a really misguided effort and training.

people dont listen to him, standing all the time, and advocating it is a good way to not get faster on a MTB or more inshape for the matter.